Zoraida the swamp hag and the Kurgan

[Math Mathonwy]

1 hour ago, SEV said:

Yeah, but we need to wait and see if there's any repackaging that come with the new title... I can't believe Wyrd will ask there customers to buy 8 boxes just to get the effigy...

I doubt it. I mean, theoretically they could make a Nightmare box of all the Effigies or release them on their web store but I find it very unlikely that they would release a box of Effigies into normal retail. I mean, you can play Z2 without Effigies just fine - summoning the Voodoo Doll isn't the end of the world and Wicked Dolls are also fine. You would lose out on a lot of power naturally but it wouldn't be unplayable by any means.

[marius]

I could see it being a webstore only deal or some such, but would be very unlikely to go to retail.

[Fingalen]

16 hours ago, fire5tone said:

Dopple changelings can't grab lost knowledge because you have to list a model by name

I am no native speaker and probably have not understood the meaning of the "list" well. I assumed, that when it prohibits actions, that "does list the model by name" it meant the name of the model should be listed in the text of the action, like e.g. Heyreddin's Life from Blood (which is not a case here). I though the actions, that require a player to name a model without specifying the name, are totally okay to copy. Thanks for the clarification.

[thatlatinspeakingguy]

after looking at all effigies I came to a conclusion that you want most of them. Shadow, Hodgepodge and Intrepid seem to be high priority purchases, Arcane is good if you don't bring Serena or if you need as many condition removals as possible, Carrion is good against some crews or in certain scenarios (set up a kill of a soulstone user), the rest can be probably skipped.

[Maniacal_cackle]

There may be merit to making brutal effigy, then using doppelganger to get stat 7 pine box.

Coupled with zoraida's activation control, could be an auto kill on certain models.

Not something you build for, but if you're taking a doppelganger anyway...

[santaclaws01]

On 8/11/2021 at 5:53 AM, thatlatinspeakingguy said:

after looking at all effigies I came to a conclusion that you want most of them. Shadow, Hodgepodge and Intrepid seem to be high priority purchases, Arcane is good if you don't bring Serena or if you need as many condition removals as possible, Carrion is good against some crews or in certain scenarios (set up a kill of a soulstone user), the rest can be probably skipped.

Hodgepodge is pretty much the least useful Effigy for Zoraida. She already has bokors in keyword, as well as the intrepid's healing making its own less useful. Only the Mysterious Effigy is less useful than it is.

[Math Mathonwy]

28 minutes ago, santaclaws01 said:

Hodgepodge is pretty much the least useful Effigy for Zoraida. She already has bokors in keyword, as well as the intrepid's healing making its own less useful. Only the Mysterious Effigy is less useful than it is.

Huh? Lure is always good to have as an option! (Plus, the Auras of Mysterious and Lucky are hilarious when combined).

[Nathan Sells]

While not an ideal solution, I did see someone round out a Collodi crew by converting a set of Wicked Dolls into various Effigies. Which would net you 9 "effigies" for ~$60 if you can find three of their 2e boxes kicking around, and are comfortable with some pretty major conversion work. But I believe that could net you a full set of tournament legal effigies without breaking the bank or needing to track down seven different out of print boxes.

[touchdown]

the official store has 6 m2e effigies still in stock. Everything except Brutal and Intrepid I think.

[Maniacal_cackle]

5 hours ago, touchdown said:

the official store has 6 m2e effigies still in stock. Everything except Brutal and Intrepid I think.

Not for long I think xD

[Morgan Vening]

12 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Not for long I think xD

I do wonder if there's going to be a decent market out there.

Effigies were around for a long time before emissaries, and with Avatars being legal proxies (I use aZoraida, a Seamus, aLevi and aSomer, official versions for the others), and with them being pre-packaged as pairs, there should be some surplus Effigies out there, and now, a market for them.

[NoisyAssassin]

10 hours ago, Nathan Sells said:

But I believe that could net you a full set of tournament legal effigies...

Most tournaments would be fine with this, but this wouldn't be allowed at any that follow Gaining Grounds completely (aka 'official' ones like Adepticon). The rules include that any conversions must be based on the actual models they represent. It's pretty restrictive.

[catbat07]

As an M2E Collodi main with a friend who plays Zipp I am cackling at you all right now 

[LexLock]

Is it intended that new Zoraida can Moth-Witch herself? It says you can discard up to two cards to have an equal number of friendly Swampfiends take the same general action; Zoraida is a friendly Swampfiend. This makes her effectively have 4 AP, you can get two walks for 1 AP or have her walk and interact for one action.

[Adran]

2 minutes ago, LexLock said:

Is it intended that new Zoraida can Moth-Witch herself? It says you can discard up to two cards to have an equal number of friendly Swampfiends take the same general action; Zoraida is a friendly Swampfiend. This makes her effectively have 4 AP, you can get two walks for 1 AP or have her walk and interact for one action.

I can't see a reason at first glance why she can't moth witch herself. 

She can't walk and interact for 1 action, moth witch allows the model to take the same general action.  

So in terms of what she can do, 2 walks is good. 2 interacts is occasionally good, but more often not worth it. 2 disengages require her to disengage to an engaged place. 2 Concentrates are not allowed. 2 assists is useful sometimes. 

[touchdown]

discarding a card for a free walk sounds amazing but the rest are extremely situational/niche at best or not allowed.

[Thatguy]

9 hours ago, LexLock said:

Is it intended that new Zoraida can Moth-Witch herself? It says you can discard up to two cards to have an equal number of friendly Swampfiends take the same general action; Zoraida is a friendly Swampfiend. This makes her effectively have 4 AP, you can get two walks for 1 AP or have her walk and interact for one action.

It does look like it. I don't think that was an intentional interaction. But maybe it was.

[LexLock]

Definitely takes the sting out of losing Eyes in the Night. Also gives you a target for Moth-Witch when you take her out of keyword.

 

Anyone else think it kind of sucks that a lot of the time zoraida2 won't have a totem? Would have been nice to let us either hire the Voodoo Doll somehow or let us have the Mysterious Effigy as a totem.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Hmmm... How would people feel if their opponent had 7 identical puppets 3-d printed, and then just had them each with a different coloured base to represent the other factions (so red base for brutal effigy from Guild)?

Seems like it might be a good solution for effigies if I don't manage to pick up a collection of them.

 

On 8/18/2021 at 8:44 AM, LexLock said:

Definitely takes the sting out of losing Eyes in the Night. Also gives you a target for Moth-Witch when you take her out of keyword.

 

Anyone else think it kind of sucks that a lot of the time zoraida2 won't have a totem? Would have been nice to let us either hire the Voodoo Doll somehow or let us have the Mysterious Effigy as a totem.

Can still summon the voodoo doll

[fire5tone]

22 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Hmmm... How would people feel if their opponent had 7 identical puppets 3-d printed, and then just had them each with a different coloured base to represent the other factions (so red base for brutal effigy from Guild)?

I'd allow it, so long as there's no ambiguity as to what puppet it is

[Morgan Vening]

7 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Hmmm... How would people feel if their opponent had 7 identical puppets 3-d printed, and then just had them each with a different coloured base to represent the other factions (so red base for brutal effigy from Guild)?

Seems like it might be a good solution for effigies if I don't manage to pick up a collection of them.

Maybe add a small simple differentiation for each, in addition to the base color?

A book for the Arcane, a clover or horseshoe for the Lucky, a coffin for the Brutal, a torch and/or shield for Intrepid, a mask for Mysterious, a sack for Hodgepodge, and something plaguedoctory for the Carrion.

Most of these don't even need to be customizations to the model itself. Just have them on the base, and it makes them identifiable, especially if an opponent has a color differentiation issue (it's not common, but it's far from rare).

Or, you could inscribe the front of the base with the name of the model (or do both). I have this for the few models I use that are proxies (Agent 46, KORE, one of my two Joss*). Don't want my opponent ever being in a position where he forgets, or has to ask which model is which, because I've switched things out.
* I have an official Joss for my traditional Ramos crew, but he didn't fit into the concept for my HoffVengers crew so I went with a more theme suited proxy.

[Thatguy]

8 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Can still summon the voodoo doll

I don't think he's saying you can't. But how often are you going to want to give up two card draw or an Effigy summon to bring out the Voodoo Doll?

[admiralvorkraft]

A better proxy option may be to get a set of Puppet Wars models - the death marshal puppet may as well be a Brutal, and then you'll be using wyrd minis too!

[Maniacal_cackle]

Carrion effigy seems like an absolute must.

Zoraida summons effigy. Then fate seals a model on the other side of the table.

Effigy activates, puts up its no soulstone aura, moves into position, accomplice into beater.

Beater does ~9 damage that can't be reduced by soulstones.

One of the more powerful combos available to the crew, so don't think you can skip the carrion effigy.

[Kiryn]

@Maniacal_cackle what beater do you have in mind?