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Everything posted by Adran

  1. I would still say that the rules text I've quoted would apply. Just because you resolve the trigger after the rest of the action is complete, it doesn't stop the trigger being part of the action, and so still subject to the action modifiers. The declaration of the trigger occurs during the action, and whilst you may resolve the trigger effects outside of the action, it is still subject to effects that applied to the action, as stated in the action triggers section.
  2. Assuming we're talking M3, The latest Beta rules say (page 12) Action Triggers are tied to specific Actions and can only be used with that Action. They are found below an Action’s effect and are subject to all game effects that affect the Action (such as Incorporeal or + flips to damage). The accuracy fate modifier for damage flips is a game effect that will affect that action, as is Focus. So I think both will apply to the Ricochet trigger
  3. I was mid answer, and then realised From the Shadows has changed wording so you can interact turn 1 sometimes with the crooligans. Still, it looks like your list will struggle to score Vendetta points whilst putting a fairly large target on Archie to concede those points. It may well be that you have picked one of the stronger crews, but if it does become a common crew, the meta will try and adjust to it. I'm also not sure how hard card discarding is going to be with a smaller hand, use of by your side, constructive critism and Flurry is 3 of your 4 cards even assuming you manage to hit all the TNs from actions. Lastly, looking at you list almost the problem I see with it is everything really wants to go late in the turn. The Crooligans can go early, but then they probably aren't dropping explosives if they do ( Certainly not turn 1, and possibly not turn 2), Archie wants to make sure he can hit something, which is often an early activation,. but that then leaves him potentially vulnerable to the whole crew picking on him before he can retaliate, and Philip And The Nanny will lose manipulative once they go, which would worry me when they are the Assasinate target. (although they replace it with boring conversation I suppose). This may well be a similar problem with a lot of lists, so it might balance out, but the Forgotten lists put extra pressure on your own hand, which is much more finite. I agree that there are some crews that will struggle to score points on turn 1. Assuming that you get to the end of 5 turns I think several of those crews could still score 8 points against you. You will struggle to score 8 points with this list unless they have a 10ss model, or something that the Crooligans can get vendetta on. I believe every faction can move 7" and drop an explosive if they want on turn 1. I would be surprised if there was a keyword that couldn't do it without having to pay out of keyword costs (they might need a versatile rather than a key word). Sure, you need to build the list to be able to do this, but I don't see that as a downside.
  4. I've not played it for the last few months of beta evalution, so my tactics are no longer correct, but I would strongly consider for your First Activation each turn using up as many rats as you need to to use up all those pass tokens your opponent has. Rats are easy enough to kill that you are in danger of being out activated if they are left in activated. You can use Hamlin later to let the rats turn into Kings and so forth if the opportunity arises. They then make a tough choice for your opponent, do they kill them which will just give you cards, or ignore them and leave you access to that resource. Its probably best you don't try and use him how you would in the last edition, and if possible forget that entirely because that probably doesn't work anymore.
  5. I could probably field any keyword against a new player and put things in the list that feel "unfair" to someone not expecting it. ( In previous editions, I've sometimes done something similar to players when they knew my master and played it themselves and still surprised them with some possibilities). So I would agree with the others that what matters more is your playstyle, rather than the keyword you chose. I like the suggestion to field multiple of the same model, I often recommend it for learning the game, but don't think of recommending it for your crew when teaching. I've always felt (and don't think the new edition has changed) that the difference between player skill is much more than the difference between crew in terms of power level, so if you are a better player, you are likely to win regardless of the keyword you chose if you play the strongest crew you can build (for you) and try and win. So if you build a dreamer crew, and focus heavily on Lucid dreams then byteh end of the game it will probably feel oppressive for your opponent (because they didn't know at the start they need to pressure you early before the advantage), but a dreamer crew using non lucid dream models would feel very different. (Although if you push it hard, you will still make it seem "overpowered". All crews are "Overpowered" in their own way, and you skill as a player is to make your form of overpowered be more important than your opponents to win.
  6. Personally I'm hoping the general actions get written in the rule book in the correct action form, so we don't need a faq. As currently written it is not a range ( it's not in the range section of the action), it's part of the text to resolve the action. But let's wait and see what the final rules look like.
  7. I would say no. The 2" is part of the effect not the range of the action.
  8. It used to be any model within 2" including yourself could take the interact action to lower burning by 1. (or rather you can take an interact action to reduce the burning of a friendly model with in 2" by 1) so the advantage of beign able to do it in combat now counters the ability to do it to your self that it lost. The advantage of the 1/2/3 flip is if models gain bonus' when you're on fire, but largely, assist will prevent 1 damage per turn, rather than 1 damage total. But that's because burning damages every turn rather than just once.
  9. Is it easier to remove than it used to be? Or is it just that almost no-one bothered to remove it before. There are some crews that use self burning to power up their actions, but outside of those, the M3 assist action is fairly similar to the old interact rules that were very rarely used. That might be just because it wasn't worth the AP to prevent 1 damage, and the condition was going to go away at the end of turn anyway. I meant you can compare cards. The nearest I can get to comparing them as a direct choice is a Crossroads 7 crew that you choose either Pride or Greed to lead, to be able to hire one or the other. Then you have the whole upgrade package, effigy extra AP and other model choices to compare that can make the crews differ.
  10. Adran

    Tors Tables

    It looks like 3 sets to me. (I can't see any part of it repeated more than 3 times anyway)
  11. Yes, except that 1 point of burning on turn one could do 5 points of damage over the game. (its also a little easier to add burning this edition I think). There is also more to do with large stacks of burning this time, so its hard to make a straight forward comparison.
  12. You can't just compare cards now, even more so than before because you never have a straight choice between Alyce and Sam. (well you can but it isn't really relevant to much) Alyce looks a little better in that she has a generally better gun (Sams can do more damage if you get the suits, and the burning damage keeps hitting every turn). Sam has a slightly better melee weapon if you ask me, although the built in injured trigger is good for Alyce,. Pit trap and healing are overall a better set of options than movement, but creep a long is better than either one, so there isn't all that much in bonus actions. Sam wins in crew based support for me. His Burning condition ties in well with the rest of the witch hunters (well largely Sonnia). Ricchoceht allows him to be setting 2 models on fire each shot, so potentially 6 in a turn (resource heavy). Burning makes Sonnia better and lots of burning makes models pretty bad against Sonnia. Sure, in a vacuum Alyce wins (Not least because fire doesn't burn in a vacuum ) but I see Sam being picked at his cost for what he does. Maybe he won't be hired out of keyword, and maybe Alyce will. But that's not intrinsictly a problem the game needs to deal with.
  13. We already have 7 factions. I don't know what Wyrd plans, but I wouldn't be surprised if the explorers society didn't really happen until book 2 where it became the 8th faction. I expect you could use Basse and McCabe as explorers guild before then, but since there are no upgrades or Explorers guild models outside those 2, you would basically just be hiring on keyword.
  14. That sounds like a plan, but what are the enemy crew doing? They can happily be going round picking up your explosive markers if you aren't holding the ground. It looks like an interesting choice where you have a Combat scheme and a mobile strategy, and its hard to compete well in both. You can go highly mobile, but that's hard to deny enemy points, and protect yours, or you can go highly combat, and struggle if the enemy is so mobile you can't catch them at all. A crew somewhere in the middle that can choose how much interaction will occur is probably the safer bet. (also its harder to out run a bullet. Sure the Archie crew doesn't use them, but you have to use the same list all event so you have to be prepared for anything). (In this example, you can put the leader and the rogue dropping explosives in the enemy half, and then bring them back to pick up the Validictarians, whilst Archie has a decent chance to kill an undergraduate or the effigy each turn, which can quickly stop them scoring the explosives points. It might not go like that, but by the end of turn 2 the necromancy and the leader could have 4 markers down. and be in a place to attack anyone that tries to remove them, covering 2 each. ) You might well find people adding a cheap model into their crew so they always have a vendetta choice(I mean you can build a crew with the leader, max cache and upgrades and 3 3ss models, but its probably very hard to actually score anything with that list because it almost all dies if its caught at all). Having cost 6 models (The undergraduates) probably means that Vendetta is possible unless you have built a crew that is never going to be able to do it ( such as the one you listed). But the fact you can build a crew that can't score points doesn't mean that you should (unless you have a plan to cope with conceding those points)
  15. From the rules, every model that is touched by the must pass the duel or suffer its effects. So if you pass the duel, you don't suffer the effects. I guess it depends on when you start the resolve effects step, is it doing the whole pulse effect, including those duels, or is the resist duel on a shockwave part of the duel step...
  16. As you say, you can't target yourself with an attack action, but Shockwave doesn't target so its fine to drop that grenade on your foot if you want to suffer the consequences.
  17. In my view nothing in the game is an auto include. Some models will help in some scheme/strategy combinations more than others would, but nothing is essential for you to own. I would normally suggest playing a few games and seeing what you feel is lacking, but if you are currently looking for M2E bargains... Zoraida is duel faction, so you start off deciding if you want to play her as Neverborn, Bayou, or both. Next thing I would look to is her keyword - Swampfiend. She has quite a wide selection from here to choose from, and you will probably use them in several games regardless of the faction you choose. You don't need to own them all at once (or strictly ever), but if they seem really good price now, and you can afford them, go for it. The biggest choice is on 1st Mate as he appears in the Zipp box, so you would need the whoel box for that 1 figure. If you're planning on playing as Bayou, then its fine, you'll probably want zipp at some point as a fun master, but if you were intending to only play as Neverborn, I would put it quite low down on your list. After that you would want to look at Versatile models from the factions you think you want to play, and finally out of keyword models for those factions that look like they combo well. At all points consider if you like the look of the model. If you don't like what it looks like, I wouldn't rush to own it. If you find later on that its really good rules for you, then you can come back and consider it. If you are trying to get maximum efficiency in your list you may end up using sculpts you don't like, but you can do just fine with a slightly different list almost all of the time.
  18. Avatars were released in book 3 (I think) of the First edition, when each of the 5 factions had 4 masters. So there are only 20 Avatar models out there (Well 21 if you count Pandora, Avatar of Woe that existed before we had avatar rules, but is on the wrong size base for either Pandora or her avatar. And Avatar Colette was 3 Colette sculpts). The following are the masters that were masters at the time and got an avatar. Justice, Perdita, Sonnia, Hoffman. Nicodem, McMorning (Strictly Sim 29) Seamus, Kirai. Ramos, Marcus, Rasputina, Colette. Zoraida, L:ilith, Pandora (+ Candy the petulant teen), Dreamer. Leviticus, Viks, Sommer, Hamlin.
  19. There are a few points that make this complex. Firstly are they at the same time? By my powers combined is at the start of activation. Arcane conduit is after a model activates. These were different times in previous editions. I'm not sure now. This is its biggest sticking point for me. Secondly Do you "Stack" all the effects that are going to happen and then work through them one by one, or do you do an effect, and then see if you are able to do any more. (This matters in this one as if the original gamin didn't have a condition to remove, could you put a condition removal ability on the "stack" in preparation for it to be useful later). This probably won't make a big difference in most games, as you are likely to want to activate the already slow gamin to be replaced, so it will have a condition to remove. The Replace a model with burning debate that happened in the beta did suggest that the Burning would process on the new model (Which is kind of the opposite of what we're saying here). Thirdly, whilst the Golem is not the same model as the gamin, it is subject to lasting effects on the gamin,. It shares the activation of the gamin. The replace rules say that it carries on the activation using any remaining actions. I think its correct that it should carry on the activation at the point it was at when it replaced, but that's not quite what is said. By the rules as written at the moment I think that you probably can get rid of the Golems slow, but it doesn't feel right to me, and it doesn't take much rewording to make it not work.
  20. The re-flip is a flip, and so by default it can be cheated.
  21. It states that it happens after determining which player has initiative, so you already know who will be going first before you decide where to place the marker. As such, the fact you've flipped to replace the joker makes no difference to the initative.
  22. How would Wyrd know which retailers are participating? As I understand it, Wyrd effectively have it as an orderable item. If a shop doesn't order it, then they can't tell if there is no one wanting it from that shop, or if the shop isn't participating. I don't know if Wyrd even could tell you all stores that sell their product, since the chain appears to go from wyrd to distributors to stores, and I don't know if the distributors are the people that would know the stores. (I Have no idea how that works. I know I've walked into stores and ordered things, which they have put on their next order from the distributor, but I don't know how itemised the distributors order from wyrd is).
  23. I've read a few battle reports using them as leaders, and they look interesting. The choice of faction seems to offer a lot to this crew in the interactions between band members and others from that faction. I would expect most Crossroads 7 lists to contain 4-7 band members and then other models to either fill the gaps the band don't have or make horrendous combinations across factions that you don't normally have access to.
  24. Pandora can still do that, but only if there is still focus on the model after its had a chance to spend it. ( so either because they chose not to spend it, or they had more than focus +1)
  25. Its also worth pointing out that there will be times the model with the focus isn't the acting model. Page 34 has simultaneous effects, which basically say active player first. The detailed timing on page 35 again tells us the active player is first in modifying the duel.
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