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Math Mathonwy

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Math Mathonwy last won the day on May 22 2018

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About Math Mathonwy

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    Gremlin Tyrant
  • Birthday 07/27/1981

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  1. Proxying is naturally expected but it's still an additional hassle and there's quite a bit of hassle already in beta testing what with the rules and profiles constantly changing (and being foreign to begin with). I know our group never touched the new Masters in our testing. And there certainly were some less-played Gremlin Masters that were talked about very little, for example. I tested Collodi in the beta a bit, for what its worth. Sure. I tend to travel to tournaments quite a bit though including international travel. If I wanted to discuss this issue with my local gaming group, I wouldn't be doing it here Why be so mean? Even my toddler knows that if someone is indeed throwing a tantrum, being mean to them is not the correct response Some people have differing approaches to their painted minis for example. Some spend a lot of time painting them and get attached to them. Some others sell freely their painted stuff. Just because you're happy with your minis getting invalidated and buying new ones doesn't mean that everyone is the same. People have differing points of emphasis in this hobby of ours. On a different note, I really, really enjoyed Collodi's theme and loved the models. I think that the puppets were some of the most iconic Wyrd minis and they were superb quality-wise. Now, I realize that you can play a Puppet crew without Collodi but Henchman crews aren't quite up to par, IME. I think losing Collodi was a real shame - Nico, Ramos, and Lilith still have their themes well-represented by other Masters, I feel, but Collodi not so much.
  2. I 100% disagree that Wyrd removed DMH models because they were too powerful in 2e. I don't really think that there is any chance of it being that way and the whole idea seems just... utterly bizarre to me. But we won't know for sure unless they tell us so I'm not sure there is a point in conversing this particular point further. I would be very surprised if DMH Masters were the least tested ones as there were completely new Masters without crew models out yet and there were also less played factions like Gremlins. I never said that removing those "ruined everything" or anything even close to resembling that. I am saddened by the massive amount of minis that I won't be able to use in tournaments anymore - I play dozens of minis games and have gone through a ton of edition shifts and this one has been by far the most destructive to me outside of some GW stuff. But it didn't "ruin everything". I won't probably be buying non-Gremlin models anymore because I feel that I need to have a full faction as Wyrd might have story reasons to kill off any of my models and if I have a full faction all my remaining models will remain relevant. We did lose a player from the gaming group who had only Lilith and was thoroughly disgusted but so it goes, I guess.
  3. How am I forgetting it? She was in a coma yet was playable. Whether an edition shift happened in between or not has absolutely zero to do with anything. M1e was played a lot (there were even official tournaments) while she was in a coma in the fluff. What? Guild Ball is much more story-driven in that the characters and factions change far, far more radically than in Malifaux and characters die left and right and yet they manage to keep their models playable across edition changes. Wyrd didn't have to do anything. They couldn't stopped producing games altogether and began knitting beanies. I'm sure that were that the case, there would still be someone telling disappointed minis games fans to quit their whining. I'm not making ultimatums. I'm not telling anyone else what they should do. All I'm doing is criticizing Wyrd for their decision and then criticizing people when they defend that decision with silly arguments. I doubt that you're arguing that the concepts of "Master Necromancer" and "Puppet Master of Puppets" are too powerful and cannot be made work but it seems that you are based on what you quoted. If you really are arguing that, I can easily adjust M2e or M3e Nico or Collodi in a way that makes them extremely weak while retaining their character but, like I said, I doubt that that's what you're arguing so I won't unless you ask me to.
  4. Have to say that I've no idea whether you're agreeing with me here or not - kinda not following you here, unfortunately. "She was in a coma, not in a prison, so naturally much more playable" must be the one of the weirder arguments I've heard here. But I'm not at all sure what you're even arguing here for? Just to disagree with me? Or am I missing your point? As this seems to contradict what you were saying previously. TOs are already banning them. Two years from now I fully expect them to be completely banned. It's how things go - this isn't my first rodeo.
  5. My point was that if your explanation for extremely unlikely situations in games is "Doppelgangers did it" or "it was all a dream" or "it's a what-if scenario" or whatever, then taking out dead models for fluff reasons seems weird since those same justifications work just as well for dead characters. Heck, we even have Amelia Bathory (and other similar models) - Nicodem could be an alt model for her! And this whole thing is very new - Perdita wasn't unplayable in official Wyrd tournaments while she was in a coma in the fluff.
  6. I think that the idea that the very concepts of Collodi and Nico were too powerful for this game is very, very suspect. I also find it mildly insulting towards Wyrd to say that the testing of DMH models was naturally half-assed. But fluff killing off models from the game is such a weird concept when the games really don't represent the fluff. I mean, it's highly unlikely that Wyrd will ever write a story where a spoon-armed Gremlin Toddler kills off Nekima or where two Johans are fighting one another or where Bete Noire plants explosives around Piglets or whatever.
  7. DMH + Dual Masters is a tricky combination because the DMH Masters' models needed to be playable under some other Master as well so combining both the DMH Master and the "new" Master of the same keyword gives you dual synergy that is normally difficult to achieve in a normal Dual Master scenario. E.g., Dreamer can Summon Stitcheds for Collodi to Order around.
  8. I have Lady Justice and Sonnia but lack their Totems. I also have McMourning but he's no longer Guild. Now, were I to somehow obtain the Totems (or proxy them), I have a Guardian, a Lawyer, Francisco, three Death Marshals, The Judge, three Witchling Stalkers, one Witchling Handler, Samael, Brutal Effigy, and a number of Guardsmen. So sprinkled around various keywords with four or five models for the keywords that I have Masters for. I can technically build a list but I'm not at all excited to do so. For Ressers I do have Molly, Nico, Seamus, and McMourning with Totems. But for other models I have three Necropunks, six Rotten Belles, three Crooligans, Rogue Necromancy, Sebastian, the Students, three Punk Zombies, three Canine Remains, Sybelle, two Dead Doxies, Mortimer, two Nurses, nine Mindless Zombies, and the Emissary. A much better situation but still, I have almost fifty models (granted, nine are Mindless Zombies) and I struggle making a competitive list. And I have won several tournaments with Ressers in previous editions (most lately with Seamus at the tail end of M3e). For Neverborn I have Pandora (no Totem), Lynch, Lilith and Nekima (no Totems, no other Black Blood stuff), Collodi and a huge assortment of Puppets, Zoraida and her stuff (she I can use easily) and then three Insidious Madnesses, Teddy, Baby Kade, Candy, Emissary, Changelings - so again, I have one Master that I can play comfortably (Zoraida), one dead Master I could play comfortably and then an assortment of useless models. All told, the edition change invalidated something close to a hundred models from me. I could buy another hundred to make them playable again (for a time) but I really don't feel like it. I have been buying Wyrd stuff since before Malifaux but after this one I don't plan on straying from Gremlins. Most TOs seem to be already excluding them. And in a year's time I predict that basically all will exclude them. That's how it goes.
  9. Just thought that it would be a fun idea for a thread. Here's my humble submission:
  10. Von Schill is a good example, I think! Guild Ball has a ton of models with very different "veteran" versions of characters (and even third, "seasoned", versions in some cases) whether representing a character mutating to a giant hulk due to chemicals, sobering up from deep alcoholism, finding religion, or even being blinded and crippled. They also retain the old versions so you can choose which ones you play but the story has far more effect on characters than in Malifaux whose characters are mostly very static except for now dying off. Von Schill as a happy exception, though.
  11. I get what you're trying to say but 1) Killing off Masters wasn't needed. They say that it's because of story reasons but you can still have absolutely idiotic combinations of models that make zero story sense. Also, many other games have characters die in the fluff yet stay in the game for "historical" scenarios. Heck, you couldn't play any historical games if you insisted that people should be alive in order to appear in a game. Almost no models were changed mechanically due to changes in story other than killing off a somewhat random set of characters. (I can't in fact off-hand think of a single story-induced mechanical change but certainly there must be some?) 2) Some keywords are very limiting and absolutely require the synergy but many are completely independent and in fact compete for resources. It's mostly the +1 Cost that makes cheap models unplayable OOK but there are already several expensive models that are beginning to look like staples in many lists with various Masters. I own something like 30 painted Guild models yet cannot make a competitive force out of them. Tough luck. The same is basically true of my Ressers and my Arcanists though there I at least have one Master each which I can kinda sorta play in a competitive setting. Of course due to how things work they are a no-go for tournaments. My Neverborn were shrunk from four Masters to two. Luckily I own almost the whole Gremlin faction so at least there I have options still. But this new "airport" killed something like a 100 models from me. I could buy a ton more models to make stuff viable again but in a couple of years Wyrd might decide to kill off a couple more Masters so I really don't feel like it. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, and so on. Sticking to a single Faction from now on and I very much suggest this strategy to everyone else as well.
  12. Somehow I'd think a Whiskey Golem with an inferiority complex would be called a Bourbon Golem Certainly a great combo, though! Which Masters have you used it with?
  13. I'm not saying that you can never have a table that invalidates a Master (or does something else weird), I'm saying that if people are arguing that in order to have a balanced table you always need a ton more terrain than in the example that was given, then that invalidates entire Masters completely. I also once played on a Terraclips city table against Kirai in M1e. Not balanced!
  14. It's also important to not go completely overboard with terrain. Ulix for example becomes completely unplayable if there's too much terrain as big-based Pigs with long Pushes and 0" reaches simply become impossible to properly maneuver. In M2e I once played a tournament game on a table that essentially made Pushes of over 3" for 50mm bases useless as there were no straight lines to Push through. Too much terrain can also make stuff like Ice Pillars insanely oppressive. As for balance, I think that it's important to remember that M2e took a lot of errata to get where it was. For M3e the hilariously herculean task was to balance hundreds of profiles in one go. It being perfectly balanced would be a completely crazy miracle of design.
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