Wishlist of changes for Guild

[Maogrim]

19 hours ago, Filox said:

Guess everybody lost interest in this thread...

 

23 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

Three pages is a lot for around here.

And in just five days 😳.

I'd say that is quite the successful thread you've got going on right here! 

Head on over to the Ten Thunders forum an laugh at my pathetic attempts to start conversations about Misaki vs. English Ivan or a possible master from the Southern Kingdoms...😅

[im_open_to_suggestions]

21 hours ago, Filox said:

Guess everybody lost interest in this thread...

Sorry been busy at work.  Basse OP and other such things. Austringers should be 8 points

[trikk]

1 hour ago, im_open_to_suggestions said:

Sorry been busy at work.  Basse OP and other such things. Austringers should be 8 points

 

[Zebo]

15 hours ago, im_open_to_suggestions said:

Sorry been busy at work.  Basse OP and other such things. Austringers should be 8 points

You forgot Dispatcher should be nerfed. 

[Adran]

On 12/29/2020 at 12:59 PM, Filox said:

Paul Crockett right now:
Only model in keyword that does not have a Favorable Terrain

Paul Crockett possible changes:
- add Favorable Terrain

Personally I find this sort of argument invalidates a lot of your points on balance.  Firstly because it isnt actually true (traps and Raptors also don't) and secondly I think it is a bad design decision in principle. 

You arguement isn't that Paul has a problem, but rather just that there is a common ability  in one of his keywords that he doesn't have. He also doesn't have adaptive evolution.  Just adding these abilities to his card would make him better, but if he isnt currently a problem then making him better may cause a problem. you are basically saying that a chunk the card for a frontier model is "fixed" as it has to have favourable terrain, home on the range and kick up dust or it isnt a frontier model. 

I also expect multi-keyword models to differ from the individual keyword norms because they are a mixture of the two keywords. they should have some common traits, but they don't need them all. 

 

[trikk]

12 minutes ago, Adran said:

Personally I find this sort of argument invalidates a lot of your points on balance.  Firstly because it isnt actually true (traps and Raptors also don't) and secondly I think it is a bad design decision in principle. 

You arguement isn't that Paul has a problem, but rather just that there is a common ability  in one of his keywords that he doesn't have. He also doesn't have adaptive evolution.  Just adding these abilities to his card would make him better, but if he isnt currently a problem then making him better may cause a problem. you are basically saying that a chunk the card for a frontier model is "fixed" as it has to have favourable terrain, home on the range and kick up dust or it isnt a frontier model. 

I also expect multi-keyword models to differ from the individual keyword norms because they are a mixture of the two keywords. they should have some common traits, but they don't need them all. 

Counter argument: a very good trapper suffering from severe terrain is counter-fluffy. I doesn't have to be Favorable terrain. It can be unimpeded

[Adran]

10 minutes ago, trikk said:

Counter argument: a very good trapper suffering from severe terrain is counter-fluffy. I doesn't have to be Favorable terrain. It can be unimpeded

but a very good trapper walking slowly through terrain to not disturb it is not uncommon. 

I'm not saying it is out of place on him, but the tone of the original post (to me at least) was about power levels and competitive balance. If you wanted to make a fluff only change, you ought to try and make it neutral on model power to maintain the justifications being made else where in the original post.  

[Filox]

@AdranThe fact that he is the only one in Basse Crew that comes without ignoring severe terrain, and is lacking in power level, also being the same cost as Pathfinder makes him a bad option most of the time. If someone is making crew for Basse, in Guild at least we are not taking value from much of his abilities and he does not summon Clockwork Traps

[Adran]

Just now, Filox said:

@AdranThe fact that he is the only one in Basse Crew that comes without ignoring severe terrain, and is lacking in power level, also being the same cost as Pathfinder makes him a bad option most of the time. If someone is making crew for Basse, in Guild at least we are not taking value from much of his abilities and he does not summon Clockwork Traps

You may well be right that he is a bad choice for a Guild Frontier crew most of the time. That wasn't your argument put here for the change though.

(And Traps don't ignore severe terrain. I'm not sure you really want to be using their walk stat during the game if you can help it, so it probably doesn't matter). 

But changes to him will also affect Explorers Frontier crews, and Arcanist and Neverborn Chimera crews, so they ought to be considered. And they do all get a much better use of Scent of Blood than guild (although now there is the sand worm it does go up in value in guild Frontier lists now). 

[Filox]

7 minutes ago, Adran said:

But changes to him will also affect Explorers Frontier crews, and Arcanist and Neverborn Chimera crews, so they ought to be considered. And they do all get a much better use of Scent of Blood than guild (although now there is the sand worm it does go up in value in guild Frontier lists now). 

I don't think Favorable Terrain or Unimpeded will break him any way in either of this crews. For now he is not even picked that often in Marcus lists where he should shine the most. The problem with this model except being only slow human model in those keyword, but also not presenting enough value for 6SS. Order Initiates are more useful then him. In ES I don't think he gonna be broken either, even with Sand Worm and Malisarus Rex next to him.

[Maniacal_cackle]

I've only looked at it on paper, but what would really help Paul Crockett is if a beast could be moved during his activation (or even accomplice on a beast would work).

So mechanically, some possible solutions would be:

• Sand Worm gains accomplice (hard to justify though)..
  • Or Sand Worm gives Paul Crocket an extra attack during its activation.
• Paul Crockett gains a bonus action (or even regular action) to unbury a beast and the beast gains stunned.
  • "A friendly sand worm may use the Terror From Below ability. If it does so, it gains stunned."
  • "A friendly beast may unbury in base contact with the target. If it does so, it gains stunned."

If going the sand worm route, I think you'd have to give it stunned or it'd be wayyyy too powerful. Stunned would ensure that it couldn't just rebury until it activates again.

EDIT: You'd probably want to ensure it retains the debuff for strats and schemes as well.

[Morgan Vening]

16 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

If going the sand worm route, I think you'd have to give it stunned or it'd be wayyyy too powerful. Stunned would ensure that it couldn't jutst rebury until it activates again.

Actually, Stunned wouldn't prevent that. As it's just taking it as a normal action. It's the reason Soulstone Miner needed "Busy Drilling" to make sure you couldn't unbury and interact. So you'ld need a special rule to prevent it reburying.

Caveat, I'm in no way a rules guru, so I could be completely wrong, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

[Maniacal_cackle]

3 minutes ago, Morgan Vening said:

Actually, Stunned wouldn't prevent that. As it's just taking it as a normal action. It's the reason Soulstone Miner needed "Busy Drilling" to make sure you couldn't unbury and interact. So you'ld need a special rule to prevent it reburying.

Caveat, I'm in no way a rules guru, so I could be completely wrong, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

Ah, no, the stunned is meant to prevent the defensive trigger to rebury. Using the worm's activation to bury seems fair game, as you still get a window to respond to it (and a reasonable number of models could single activation it).

[Harlekin]

8 hours ago, Filox said:

The problem with this model except being only slow human model in those keyword, but also not presenting enough value for 6SS. 

Oh, is Paul bringing value to Marcus crews: a) ranged attacks the crew totally lacks otherwise b) free attacks for beast. I like him.

[extremor]

I think the investigators could use a build in Delay trigger on their interrogate attack. This attack I rarely use and in general I think the investigator could be buffed a little. 

[displaced]

I want propaganda back. Ideally on Nellie, but I want that playstyle back

[4thstringer]

2 hours ago, extremor said:

I think the investigators could use a build in Delay trigger on their interrogate attack. This attack I rarely use and in general I think the investigator could be buffed a little. 

Honestly, I'd also take the draw out secrets trigger built in.  It's not like he is crushing it worth wp 5 on that

[Maniacal_cackle]

5 hours ago, 4thstringer said:

Honestly, I'd also take the draw out secrets trigger built in.  It's not like he is crushing it worth wp 5 on that

You'll get a lot of situations where an investigator just attacks their ally twice to get two scheme markers then.

Leave your mark becomes trivial at that point.

[Legislat]

I know for sure probably nothing will be made to the point. Some time has passed, my previous thoughts almost did not change. Anyway:

1) Fix our upgrades. LLC first.

2) Pistoleros, Thalarian quellers, Greed, Investigators, Nino, Santiago, Queeg, Monster hunters, Orderlies. Those at the very least need a slight buff.  Hunters and Nurse HB come as close second. Maybe Samael.

3) Phiona and Pale Rider need a slight nerf. 

4) Need more keyword models for Journalists and Elite at the very least.

5) Risk of Reason needs to be reworked. Potential NPE both ways.

6) GIVE US MORE UTILITY MODELS PLEASE.

Everything is my honest opinion. I just want to make game a bit more fun for everybody, other factions included.

[4thstringer]

1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

You'll get a lot of situations where an investigator just attacks their ally twice to get two scheme markers then.

Leave your mark becomes trivial at that point.

2 actions of a 7 point model and 2 forced discards? Feels fair.

[Maniacal_cackle]

2 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

2 actions of a 7 point model and 2 forced discards? Feels fair.

It is only forced discards if you have cards left in hand. If it is your last activation of the turn, there'll be a lot of situations where you can score.

That said, they're reasonably squishy, so at least there is counterplay of killing them before they get last activation!

[4thstringer]

9 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

It is only forced discards if you have cards left in hand. If it is your last activation of the turn, there'll be a lot of situations where you can score.

That said, they're reasonably squishy, so at least there is counterplay of killing them before they get last activation!

The whole keyword is squishy, so I don't think you will see them having last activation anyways, though the gaining cards for pass token use will help with that . 

Also unless you get the investigator into the middle alive, getting that first point is tough too 

 

[admiralvorkraft]

1 hour ago, 4thstringer said:

The whole keyword is squishy, so I don't think you will see them having last activation anyways, though the gaining cards for pass token use will help with that . 

Also unless you get the investigator into the middle alive, getting that first point is tough too 

 

To whit, my request is for a smattering of common defensive and mobility tech across Elite/Family/Witch Hunters/Asylum. Doesn't have to be much. One leap, a second flyer, and a couple Armor +1/HtK/Terrifying 10 sort of abilities.

Oh, and ONE Ruthless Family member. They're supposed to be monster hunters. Santiago, or, you know, the Monster Hunters.

[belorey]

My changes

1) Lady Justice:

Inspiring Swordplay: After this model kills an enemy model with her Action, move a friendly Marshall in LoS up to 5" toward this model and gain Focus +1.

2) Jonathan Reichart:

Stoic Nod: RG6"/Stat6/TN10 Target heals 1/2/3

Preparations: Target gains Focus +1

My loyal servant: Another model (other than this model) withing 3" heals 1/2/3.

[belorey]

3 hours ago, Legislat said:

1) Fix our upgrades. LLC first.

I like No Prisioner, maybe i don't play a lot but with some Minions and in some tables is pretty good.

If they change LLC they need to rewritte most Guild Master/Henchman without DF tech because they have been created with LLC in mind.

3 hours ago, Legislat said:

4) Need more keyword models for Journalists and Elite at the very least.

Yes please!!!! Journalist really need more models to become a really big media conglomerate.

3 hours ago, Legislat said:

3) Phiona and Pale Rider need a slight nerf.

I think they are right, the problem are the rest of the versatil/henchman who are clearly worse. I think Mechanical Rider is better and Dead Rider is pretty amazing too.