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July 2018 Errata

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37 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

The choices you make when building a crew are decisions you make during the game. 

Sorry, I disagree with that. 

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43 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

The choices you make when building a crew are decisions you make during the game. 

That is the problem I have.   I dont want to show up to a tourney and build the crew based on the strat and scenes. It takes too long. I want to show up with a built crew and play, and be at least competitive. 

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9 minutes ago, Zebo said:

Sorry, I disagree with that. 

I feel they should be. They are certainly choices I make in my game, and one of the things I like most is that you should build based on the game and the table in front of you. I guess what I want would be something that made fixed lists less common.  

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9 minutes ago, Zebo said:

Sorry, I disagree with that. 

Building a crew after seeing the table, the encounter details, and faction your opponent declares are decisions made during the game. The player that is better at building their crew around those pieces of information should have an advantage.

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14 minutes ago, Terry Bailey Sr said:

That is the problem I have.   I dont want to show up to a tourney and build the crew based on the strat and scenes. It takes too long. I want to show up with a built crew and play, and be at least competitive. 

The reason I think malifaux can justify the size of its model range is because this shouldn't work. If you can build a generic list that can do everything well then you probably should cull about60% of the models from each faction. 

And I know some masters can sort of do this, and I don't like it. 

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I like to build crews that I like for fluff, style or because I have the minis painted. 

Yes, I know that list-building should care, but I think "playing" should care more, and for me (only my opinion) it's not an in-game decision. 

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32 minutes ago, Terry Bailey Sr said:

That is the problem I have.   I dont want to show up to a tourney and build the crew based on the strat and scenes. It takes too long. I want to show up with a built crew and play, and be at least competitive. 

This not being possible have been a design goal from the very beginning of Malifaux. Some masters have certainly been able to do this at times, but have usually been errataed soon after this ability has been demonstrated over a few major events. Pre-built crews being competitive run directly against what this game is supposed to be about.

If you can pull off decent results with pre-built lists, more power to you. But you shouldn't expect the erratas to warp the game to make this easier; it makes no sense for Wyrd to errata out one of the main draws the game has compared to the competition. Also, it wouldn't make much sense economically for Wyrd as many, if not most, models justify themselves as niche pieces that only works in very specific situations. If generalists could successfully replace specialist in competitive meats that would make a large portion if the game's model base superfluous. Not a sensible business decision...

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47 minutes ago, Terry Bailey Sr said:

That is the problem I have.   I dont want to show up to a tourney and build the crew based on the strat and scenes. It takes too long. I want to show up with a built crew and play, and be at least competitive. 

That's never been the nature of this game though.  

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4 hours ago, Terry Bailey Sr said:

That is the problem I have.   I dont want to show up to a tourney and build the crew based on the strat and scenes. It takes too long. I want to show up with a built crew and play, and be at least competitive. 

Tournaments tend to list the strats and schemes for each round in the players pack that you get in advance. So you can very much build a list for each game before even getting in the car to drive to the event. You don’t know the opposing crew but you can build lists before the event.

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5 hours ago, Terry Bailey Sr said:

That is the problem I have.   I dont want to show up to a tourney and build the crew based on the strat and scenes. It takes too long. I want to show up with a built crew and play, and be at least competitive. 

Building the crew to the scheme pool is sort of a core tenant of Malifaux, and is a huge draw for just about every player I've ever talked to. Also, what do you mean it takes to long? You likely spent hours upon hours building and painting your models, traveled (even if its just down the road) to the tournament, and you don't want to spend 5 minutes building a crew for the game you are going to spend the next 2+ hours playing? Crew building is my favorite part of this game. If Malifaux ever truly gets boiled down to what you are describing I know I probably would not play much longer. 

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58 minutes ago, -Loki- said:

Tournaments tend to list the strats and schemes for each round in the players pack that you get in advance. So you can very much build a list for each game before even getting in the car to drive to the event. You don’t know the opposing crew but you can build lists before the event.

Every tourney I have been in we may get the strats and schemes for the first round the night before. The next two rounds at the tourney before the round begins. 

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29 minutes ago, Terry Bailey Sr said:

Every tourney I have been in we may get the strats and schemes for the first round the night before. The next two rounds at the tourney before the round begins. 

That seems counter productive. All that does is rush list creation and/or slow down getting games started. Providing them in a player pack on registration let’s you speed that part up by letting people make lists beforehand. Also good because it lets people organise transport for miniatures rather than needing to bring your whole collection.

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11 minutes ago, -Loki- said:

That seems counter productive. All that does is rush list creation and/or slow down getting games started. Providing them in a player pack on registration let’s you speed that part up by letting people make lists beforehand. Also good because it lets people organise transport for miniatures rather than needing to bring your whole collection.

Now you understand why I feel the way I do. 

 

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7 hours ago, -Loki- said:

That seems counter productive. All that does is rush list creation and/or slow down getting games started. Providing them in a player pack on registration let’s you speed that part up by letting people make lists beforehand. Also good because it lets people organise transport for miniatures rather than needing to bring your whole collection.

Building your list to a time limit is a skill too. Providing stratagem and schemes beforehand has been something debated here many times, and some people prefer them in advance to pre plan the lists and reduce time, others view it as one of the skilljs of the game, so want it to be tested. 

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3 hours ago, Adran said:

Building your list to a time limit is a skill too. Providing stratagem and schemes beforehand has been something debated here many times, and some people prefer them in advance to pre plan the lists and reduce time, others view it as one of the skilljs of the game, so want it to be tested. 

You see with that statement you have found something. One way (in advanced ) you have a miniatures skirmish game. The othe way ( create the day of) you have a miniatures collectables game.  I signed on to this game thinking it was the former. I got away from the later years ago because of the he who has the deep pockets wins.  If that is what Malifaux is at its heart I am disappointed. 

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On 7/12/2018 at 12:26 PM, Terry Bailey Sr said:

You see with that statement you have found something. One way (in advanced ) you have a miniatures skirmish game. The othe way ( create the day of) you have a miniatures collectables game.  I signed on to this game thinking it was the former. I got away from the later years ago because of the he who has the deep pockets wins.  If that is what Malifaux is at its heart I am disappointed. 

I understand what you are saying but I don't think it's completely true. I do think you do need to own more than just 50 ss worth of crew to be competitive, but it is certainly possible to build a variety of crews that can be competitive from a relatively small pool. 

Have you ever tried a fixed pool event? I have, and enjoy the fun of selecting 100 ss worth of models and upgrades to be able build a range of crews from.

If you plan it well I think you can get competitive lists for all strategies and schemes produced so far from under 200 ss. ( and that can support 3 or 4 different masters easily. If you want to use more masters you may need a larger pool).

Now you may well have to buy more things than that 200 ss, because you probably don't want exactly 3 of a model, or you want something. But for casual competition you can also get away with a smaller pool and do well, because you aren't going to need to cover reckoning and supply wagon at the same event. 

Edit- also just owning lots makes building a crew in a timed environment harder. 

 

Edit 2

Because I don't think its worth a new post. 

Building in advance compared to building at the table has no real difference on how'll much you own. ( unless the building in advance means you decide you need to buy a new model). 

Building in advance gives you time to look for combinations with out time pressure. Building at the table allows you to modify the list to match the table. I know I only ever took scramble on tables with huge amounts of severe terrain. And snipers only work if the table has enough long lines of sight. 

 

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it is quite easy to go to events with fixed crews so in no way is this pay to win

I have won 3 events with fixed and podiumed plus done well in others, even came in the top half of a nationals using fixed crew mei feng all weekend (and believe I would have come higher if I didnt face the same opponent twice at the end of the sunday)

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I have several fixed lists for certain Strategies.

I have several fixed lists for certain Masters, or Factions in the case of Resserectionists & Guild.

I have several fixed lists for certain regular opponents.

I have 1 fixed list for whenever my favorite Scheme shows up.

I have 1 fixed list for opponents who just start talking ish..... to make it, win or lose, the most drawn out, annoying game of their lives.

 

It's not about making lists on the fly.  It's about seeing what's on the table (terrain, Strategy, opposing faction.. sometimes player) and having already planned for this situation and act accordingly.  Put in the work ahead of time.

Or don't... I'm not one of your parents, do what you want.

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In  1st Edition it was choose Strategy and Schemes and then decide on Faction and Hire Crews.

In 1.5  Edition  you chose Faction then determined Strategies, then hired Crews and then chose Schemes.  

In 2nd Edition you announce Factions, then determine Strategy and Schemes, and then hire Crew.

No matter what edition, it has been Strategy first, then Crews. Has everyone been playing their games in this fashion? Probably not. This doesn't mean it's not a game rule, just that they have opted not to play it that way during their normal course of playing. It also means that there's no real point in being upset over a Tournament Organizer enforcing a legitimate rule.

 

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On 7/12/2018 at 7:26 AM, Terry Bailey Sr said:

 One way (in advanced ) you have a miniatures skirmish game. The othe way ( create the day of) you have a miniatures collectables game.

How does this make sense?

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