Errata made a splash in the Bayou

[Math Mathonwy]

So the errata landed. They touched the models that were complained about pretty heavily, boosted Wong and Swinecursed but left the weak Minions weak.

Francois took a big hit in killyness and durability but got some utility to make up for it a bit. He might be a bit more interesting now? Definitely a lot weaker, though but I suppose that was to be expected.

Rami just got nerfed quite a bit. Again, pretty expected. Not ignoring Concealing anymore is a pretty big thing, I think.

Bokors lost Obey and their card draw got toned down. They did get a bit of a mini-Obey for Minions as compensation. I'm not sure they'll see much play outside of Wong anymore. Zoraida doesn't really have Minions that would benefit from Bokors all that much and "freeing" up points from support roles in her list is usually a good thing. Wong has Swines for the Bokor and an insatiable need for heals.

This change probably affects the power level of the Faction quite a bit but fewer "auto-includes" is better, I suppose.

Wong got a big buff but weirdly enough his shooting got a sideways change. The extra Glowy is huge. But even with that, I'm not exactly convinced that his title doesn't still steal all the glory from him. I suppose time will tell.

Swine-boost is definitely the odd one out. They were already generally seen as being one of the few good parts of the keyword. I feel that Taxidermists or Lightning Bugs really could've used the love a lot more.

And speaking of Lightning Bugs, also Wrastlers and Moon Shinobi and so on were left alone.

Well, at least it wasn't like the murder of Somer last errata so I suppose we got off lightly this time.

[Thatguy]

31 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

Well, at least it wasn't like the murder of Somer last errata so I suppose we got off lightly this time

Lol I was half expecting Somer to get hit with something again, out of spite. 

31 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

Swine-boost is definitely the odd one out. They were already generally seen as being one of the few good parts of the keyword. I feel that Taxidermists or Lightning Bugs really could've used the love a lot more.

I was surprised too. Swinecursed were the crews heavy hitters. I feel like the changes were made with Sooey in mind not Wiz-bang. 

34 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

I'm not sure they'll see much play outside of Wong anymore

They're still healers in a faction that burns through wounds for fun. I wonder if the Spot Hog will see more OoK play.

[Scoffer]

Rami got the hardest hit. +1 cost and no more ignoring concealment makes him a very niche pick. I think I'll take an upgrade and 5 stones in cash instead of him in Ophelia in most situations. New Francois will be happy to have extra stones.

Bokors are still the best ook healers in factions. Ophelia, Wong and Zoraida will use them anyway. Somer and Brewmaster didn't need them even before errata. Probably I will take Beau instead of 9ss bokor in Mah and Zipp for healing. And Ulix can use Brin or Smuggler for card draw.

[wizuriel]

ouch.

Was hoping some of the minions would get a buff  

I think bokors are okay as they are still the best healers in faction for a faction that likes hitting itself.

The Rami nerf seems a bit harsh but justified. I wish for +1 cost they would have added some things to him though aside from just nerfs.

Francois I wasn't that impressed with him before and I don't think the change is going see more play. 

Wong looks more interesting, but I still suspect he is by far the weakest master in Bayou. His design just doesn't work and has been complained about since M3E beta.  

Swine Cursed at least look better. 

[GrumpyGrandpa]

Swine Cursed can be major killers now - Toss a Mask on it with Old Major, and you have a model that can do 6 potential attacks with + on damage flips. Requires some setup, but I can see it work.

Also

42 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Lol I was half expecting Somer to get hit with something again, out of spite. 

Same here 😂

[Thatguy]

41 minutes ago, wizuriel said:

The Rami nerf seems a bit harsh but justified. I wish for +1 cost they would have added some things to him though aside from just nerfs

 

47 minutes ago, Scoffer said:

Rami got the hardest hit. +1 cost and no more ignoring concealment makes him a very niche pick. I think I'll take an upgrade and 5 stones in cash instead of him in Ophelia in most situations. New Francois will be happy to have extra stones

I think Rami didn't really need the nerf AND a price increase. But I think it's still take him if I didn't think the opponent had much concealment. 24" ranged stagger might be useful in some situations.

I can't see bringing Francois any more. For his cost + the number of stones he wants to preform now, I'll just bring the Whiskey golem OoK. 

 

Edit: I missed the change capping poison and burning at 5 damage. This seems like a bit of a Brewmaster nerf. Though it's rare to stack it that high.

[Scoffer]

25 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

I can't see bringing Francois any more. For his cost + the number of stones he wants to preform now, I'll just bring the Whiskey golem OoK. 

Golem can't stone and dies too fast. Probably Alphonse is our best beater now.

[Morgan Vening]

1 hour ago, Math Mathonwy said:

Swine-boost is definitely the odd one out. They were already generally seen as being one of the few good parts of the keyword. I feel that Taxidermists or Lightning Bugs really could've used the love a lot more.

But it makes them AWWWWESOME!

Ulix1 now applies Sturdy Critters and Swineherd auras to them. Can get the built in Mask for Herd Em, and CAN GROW THEM!
Ulix2 now applies Covered In Slop and Pigs On Fire to them. Bacon Beeline can shift them up too.
Penelope and Old Major add abilities. As do Slop Hauler and Hog Whisperer.

The amount of abilities in Ulix's keywords that didn't apply to Swine-Cursed, was extensive. Even without the other upgrades, just the change of keyword to Pig makes them so much more useful.

Does kinda kick Wong inna junk that everything was on the Ulix side of the ball, and they removed one of the Wong abilities.

[Thatguy]

4 minutes ago, Scoffer said:

 Alphonse is our best beater now.

I feel like this is punishment for daring to be in the same Faction as Zorida.

[SEV]

I'm really happy that Swinecurse are now pig. I just bough then because I play Rocinante... But now I actually want to field them!

The only question is Pink or green? 

I still think Frank is decent. He was a  bonker murdering machine before. Now he still hit quite hard and have more angles.

Bokor are good healer (needing a 6 instead of a 7 is nice)... But they're super narrow. A tech piece instead of a staple.

I don't care much about Wong, but I feel they were really prudent with his buff... Look at OG Raspy (the other abysmal master in the game) she got much more with this errata.

[fire5tone]

rami also lost no witnesses which made him as good as he was against armor

[ShinChan]

My 2 cents about Wizz-Bang changes:

Wong

• +1 Df and Three Demon Bag is a good improvement for his survival, since his stats were really bad, specially if we compare him with the new batch of Master profiles that appeared in Malifaux Burns.
• His offensive capabilities have been severely nerfed. Let me elaborate:
  • He lost 1 trigger, Severe Injury. That even if it was risky to declare when you could hurt your own models, it was giving you flexibility.
  • The capability of dropping 2 shockwave markers is now a trigger. This is HUGE, first of all because you can't drop 2 shockwaves and get to draw a card (see Bokors after). Also makes him more vulnerable to be stunned.
  • Losing the  is definitely an overall improvement, since now you don't necessarily need to disengage to keep throwing shockwaves, however this is not a buff that compensates for the other two nerfs, because it was already mitigated by all the movement shenanigans that are in the crew ("frightening reminder", "Toss", "Glimpse of the void", "AHHH, MY EYE!", "Perfect Timing", "Convulsions", "Under Pressure"...), his defensive trigger and the fact that he has stapled the "2 Gremlins in a Ghillie Suit" upgrade that gives him Disguised . So basically you're a little bit more free regarding the activation order in case Wong gets engaged, but this is not a real buff.
  • +1 Stat in the melee attack is kind of wasted ink on him, because is almost never going to be relevant. If at least they gave him a printed  and the "Extra Sparkly" trigger, it could be used on other Wizz Bang models as a way to charge and get 2 glowys on someone for 2 damages. That would have been a real buff and not this one.
• "Protective Glow" is amazing, honestly, this is great buff. However, Wong loses a significant part of his damage kit, making it even worse than before, in exchange for more support that forces him to play even more bubbled.

Gatreaux Bokor

• Obey Action removed
  • I wasn't a fan of this action, but it was really useful. I understand why it had to go, but I don't get why not improve Swamp Spirits then.
• Déjà vu Trigger removed.
  • This was obvious, it was abused too much OOK.
• Gained Consolidate Power Bonus Action.
  • I guess this is the substitute for Obey. Honestly I feel like is not a terrible deal, but definitely not a buff. They can consolidate power to themselves and give Focused +1 to the model that they're pushing to without range. The reason I'm not giving this a straight buff is that it "requires" 2 glowys for it to work and it's supposed to compensate the lost of Obey and Big Voodoo.
• Gained Surge Trigger on Protective Spirits Action.
  • Well, this is it, the main reason I don't like this changes. Giving shielded is counterproductive with Wong1 most of the time, since due to Blast resistant, you won't be able to ping your models for 1 damage if they have shielded, which compromises a lot the activation order if you need that card draw, which in this keyword, you definitely need the card draw.
• Healing Energy stat increased from 5 to 6.
  • Alright! This is a nice buff, but it's the very minimum to compensate for the loss of Deja Vu. Right now, this puts them as usable models in keyword and thank God(!) because the keyword working is based on damaging your own models. Without proper ways to heal them and everyone being quite squishy...
• Big Voodoo Ability replaced with Blast Resistant +2.
  • Big Voodoo was a decent ability, so losing it is bad but not terrible. However, losing it in exchange for an ability that they should had from the very beginning is... Well, not good.

Swine-Cursed

• Sooey Keyword replaced with Pig.
• Magical Influence Ability removed.
• Gained “I’m No Coward” Trigger on Heroic Intervention. Heroic Intervention stat adjusted from 6 to 6.
• Gained Tear Off a Bite Trigger on Tusks.
• Demise (Unstable Transformation) Ability adjusted to only Summon Bayou Gremlins but now includes a of damage.
• Health increased from 7 to 8.

This guys got a big overall buff, but if we pay attention, it's more oriented towards Ulix than towards Wong (not that Ulix isn't thankful!). Mainly because they lost the ability to gain triggers from glowy and instead they now can get all those buffs from being Pigs, including built-in triggers thanks to Old Major "Nudge'Em On".

 

So overall, Wong gains more survivality while having less reasons to stay in play (less offensive power). Swine-Cursed are great, but now they're better with other master. Card draw/cycling goes drastically down, which reduces significantly how Wizz-Bang can perform and side tools like Obey or anti-pass token mechanic disappear.

In the meantime, half of the keyword remains between mediocre to unplayable:

• Flying Piglets
• Lightning Bugs
• Taxidermist
• Pigapult (at least now Sparks can "Obey" it to launch someone, although that implies an OOK pick while the in-keyword Obey dissapeared)
• Burt Jebsen
• Backup Assistant (now probably, the worst model in the game after the buff to the Molemen)

Honestly, I was hoping so much more for the keyword 😢

[GrumpyGrandpa]

12 hours ago, ShinChan said:

In the meantime, half of the keyword remains between mediocre to unplayable:

• Backup Assistant (now probably, the worst model in the game after the buff to the Molemen)

I agree with everything you've said, but I'm gonna have to challenge you on this one. Backup Assistant can be such a huge boon with the crew, and I've only had good experiences with him. That being said, he isn't a obligatory pick (which I like).

Did anything in the FAQ change anything for Bayou? Can't spot anything major.

[SEV]

4 hours ago, GrumpyGrandpa said:

Backup Assistant can be such a huge boon with the crew, and I've only had good experiences with him. That being said, he isn't a obligatory pick (which I like).

Really?  He looks so mediocre... the fact that he has a TN on his attack make him really bad at giving glowy... and he dies to absolutely anything. So the only thing he brings is card cycling...

 

[Omenbringer]

 

20 hours ago, Thatguy said:

Lol I was half expecting Somer to get hit with something again, out of spite.

21 hours ago, Math Mathonwy said:

Well, at least it wasn't like the murder of Somer last errata so I suppose we got off lightly this time.

If memory serves me right, this might be the first errata that Som'er didn't receive an entry. It is really sad how far he has strayed from his 1st edition form of the Hog Boss to what he is now. And just to be crystal clear...I am not talking about the Infinite Red Joker draw or Infinite Skeeter summons versions; those were both exploitations that needed to be closed. Many of Som'er's erratas and changes were incredibly heavy handed, particularly given inaction on far worse NPE's and power combos. Not to mention that Som'er hasn't been a consistent performer in competitive environments (and this is across all editions). And while I concede that Som'er can sometimes dominate a local meta, once they learn to peel the onion it is much less so. I know none of the metas I have played in has ever struggled to counter him.

I don't even recognize the crew that got me to buy in so deep with Malifaux. He doesn't even really function within his key word and his title...well it is a bit of a dumpster fire.

19 hours ago, SEV said:

I'm really happy that Swinecurse are now pig. I just bough then because I play Rocinante... But now I actually want to field them!

The only question is Pink or green?

Why not both? You can use glazes to provide a hint of one color over the other. I did this with my Swine cursed to make it look like a Gremlin Werepig.

I am super excited for Swine Cursed in Ulix. Ulix is my favorite Bayou Master this edition.

[ShinChan]

46 minutes ago, Omenbringer said:

 

If memory serves me right, this might be the first errata that Som'er didn't receive an entry. It is really sad how far he has strayed from his 1st edition form of the Hog Boss to what he is now. And just to be crystal clear...I am not talking about the Infinite Red Joker draw or Infinite Skeeter summons versions; those were both exploitations that needed to be closed. Many of Som'er's erratas and changes were incredibly heavy handed, particularly given inaction on far worse NPE's and power combos. Not to mention that Som'er hasn't been a consistent performer in competitive environments (and this is across all editions). And while I concede that Som'er can sometimes dominate a local meta, once they learn to peel the onion it is much less so. I know none of the metas I have played in has ever struggled to counter him.

I don't even recognize the crew that got me to buy in so deep with Malifaux. He doesn't even really function within his key word and his title...well it is a bit of a dumpster fire.

Why not both? You can use glazes to provide a hint of one color over the other. I did this with my Swine cursed to make it look like a Gremlin Werepig.

I am super excited for Swine Cursed in Ulix. Ulix is my favorite Bayou Master this edition.

I agree. Som'er wasn't dominating anything. Damn, Bayou wasn't even getting to podium in consistently in big events and definitely Som'er was hit too hard. Most of the Bayou players are not even finding reasons to field him anymore from a competitive perspective.

Also, the berf to Wong (buff + nerf) is really leaning on the nerf part, so the only one winning of this FAQ+Errata is Ulix with the new Swine-Cursed.

• Mah1 untouched
• Som'er 1 untouched
• Wong overall nerfed
• Ophelia 1 nerfed
• Brewmaster nerfed
• Ulix buffed
• Zoraida nerfed
• Zipp untouched

The main masters that were winning consistently in competitive setups were Zoraida and Zipp, partially supported for OOK beaters like François and Rami. Ophelia was winning matches, but not events. Bokors needed to fall, but not this hard.

[GrumpyGrandpa]

4 hours ago, Omenbringer said:

And while I concede that Som'er can sometimes dominate a local meta, once they learn to peel the onion it is much less so. I know none of the metas I have played in has ever struggled to counter him.

3 hours ago, ShinChan said:

I agree. Som'er wasn't dominating anything. Damn, Bayou wasn't even getting to podium in consistently in big events and definitely Som'er was hit too hard. Most of the Bayou players are not even finding reasons to field him anymore from a competitive perspective.

100% agreed on both accounts. My personal theory is that a few vocal podcasters swayed the public opinion, and things just got out of hand. That, or I've just been looking at the wrong tournament results.

I'm happy about this errata, and agree with basically everything done to Bayou (and several of the other factions). But man.. I would have loved to see Ol' Somer get a return.

[Zebo]

So. 

Wong gains +1Df, is inmune to triggers, gain +1 stat in his melee, a new trigger on his bonus that heals and gives glowy tokens, can do his main attack while engaged and can remove (redeploy) any kind of marker, but since his main attack don't put injured, he's worse and has been nerfed. 

 

I got it right? 

[Morgan Vening]

24 minutes ago, aquenaton said:

I don't think he is "worse" than before, but it is  true that his attack now only drops one shockwave, and also cannot put injured. Those two things hit his attacking potential.

Unless he's Stunned or using the Surge trigger, he still gets two.

Cataclysm's suit is built in.

[jenton]

To be fair the injured trigger didn't help with Wong's damage output personally as injured reduces df/wp and Fzzzap's shockwave is against movement. So I don't think that is much of a loss.

I'm a really big Wong fan so hoping that these changes help bring him up a few pegs but I'm not convinced that his and the swinecursed buffs will outweigh the bokors nerfs. It's a shame that the lighting bugs didn't get a slight touch up as well.

[Maciej]

On 2/16/2022 at 8:48 PM, Scoffer said:

Bokors are still the best ook healers in factions. 

Actually I think I'd take Beau Fishbocker in most cases instead of Bokor now.  Reconfigure and deep down discovery make him more reliable healer, and showboating is always nice. 

[Maciej]

On 2/16/2022 at 9:57 PM, fire5tone said:

rami also lost no witnesses which made him as good as he was against armor

That is the most annoying thing about the nerf. Because even with increased cost and ignore concealment lost, I'd take him ook against armour heavy crews. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

12 hours ago, Maciej said:

Actually I think I'd take Beau Fishbocker in most cases instead of Bokor now.  Reconfigure and deep down discovery make him more reliable healer, and showboating is always nice. 

Also 2 inch engagement range with his cheat aura is amazing.

[ShinChan]

On 2/19/2022 at 4:04 AM, Zebo said:

So. 

Wong gains +1Df, is inmune to triggers, gain +1 stat in his melee, a new trigger on his bonus that heals and gives glowy tokens, can do his main attack while engaged and can remove (redeploy) any kind of marker, but since his main attack don't put injured, he's worse and has been nerfed. 

 

I got it right? 

His main lost a trigger and now has to chose between draw a card or drop 2 shockwaves. He's more affected by stunned (stunned means only 1 shockwave). If you played Wong, you would understand how these changes affect him more than what it appears at first glance. The only significant buff that he had was the new trigger in The Glow. Other than that, they're extremely situational.

[TeddyBear]

I state that it is only an idea and not a proposal: I was wondering, since I read that several bayou players would like to see the keyword "big hat" or more precisely som'er a little improved, it would be very absurd to remove from him "one for the team "and instead give him the possibility (as the only model) to generate the blasts from the friendly ones? it was a nice thing in second edition (but used by too many characters) now maybe, on a single model,

1 would make som'er more interesting.

2 since som'er is a jack of all trades, i imagine the s. player will not focus his game on "just that".

Would be o.p.?

I would very much like to know what you think.