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Omenbringer last won the day on November 26 2017

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About Omenbringer

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    Big Bad Voodoo Daddy
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  1. I will check the stock at my LGS next time I go. I seem to recall them having at least one.
  2. 1st edition had a similar concept though it was called Breakable way back when. Unfortunately... Breakable terrain wasn't often utilized in 1st edition either. Not that it wasn't a useful thing, more that it was difficult to display the after effects on the tabletop, i.e. marking a door or section of wall as broken for the remainder of the game in a satisfying easily identifiable way. I used it a lot more with Wyrd's Terraclips line due to the ease of removing doors or replacing wall sections with smaller pieces or ruined pieces. As you mention, small terrain elements might not be the best choices for destructible pieces due to the benefits they often provide. Now on larger pieces it could be real interesting.
  3. While some aspects of the new version of Somer may accomplish your intent of encouraging a Horde Style of play, Lookin' Down On 'Em may actually have the opposite effect. This singular ability coupled with Bayou Bash is likely going to be much more effective in an Elite crew where you aren't providing pass tokens than a horde of weenies where you will. Also, that card is getting mighty full of text.
  4. I wouldn't be surprised if Wyrd released a new Hanna for M3e that was closer to the KS one, there is some precedent for it. The M2e Lord Chompy Bits is a very close facsimile of the 1st Edition Nightmare Edition that at one point commanded a really hefty price on the secondary market. I absolutely hate the Relic Knights Hanna and would love to see a new version but do hope they dont infringe on the KS one in such an obvious way.
  5. I would also add: You have to use the replaced value so it is not like a where you can choose to use it or not. And it counts as your cheat for the duel. Somer's recent rise in competitive play is more likely due to the appearance of Bajonistas than an ability he has had from the very start of the edition. There is a reason 1st edition Somer had Survival of the Fittest erratad very early to prevent stacking with other models that had it. But at this point, I really dont care anymore. The devs will do what they think is best and the rest of us will have to make our own decisions about them.
  6. But you cant take it on any master you play, only a handful of Gremlin Models have it and only one Master. As you stated though You are arguing against players who know these models and have much more experience than you do. No point in discussing this further as you will not change my opinion and I am very unlikely to change yours. Ah the joys of open play testing...
  7. 8 is a value higher than the statistical average for Bayou Two Card. It is less than a 50-50 crap shoot that is more likely to drop lower than a tie or higher and you have to use the second result as it is your cheat. It really isn't that great. If it was Somer would have been placing much higher in organized competitive play events and much more consistently.
  8. This is definitely not true or statistically accurate. Its best use is in damage flips where you can get a second chance at higher damage, but even here you have to hit well enough to cheat at all, and with Gremlin stats that isn't guaranteed. Finally, as @ShinChan states, it is your models cheat so you have to use the new result even if it is lower. This is why Bayou Two Card isn't as great as it looks. It has a narrow range of benefit with a larger range of detriment. Suicide Gremlins. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ After, years and years of playing Somer and his crew in both 1st and 2nd editions, I feel safe in stating that the only real balance he needed was with negating the interaction between Survival of the Fittest and Get Your Bro. I have never agreed with using Get Your Bro as a card draw mechanic. A single line addition to Get Your Bro could have stopped this.
  9. Well that is not entirely true...Bayou Gremlins exploding has been a thing since the very beginning of the game. There was also a non-PC name for it. It was one of the few methods Gremlins had of dealing with 1st edition Hamelin. It was continued in M2e but moved to an upgrade card. Not often utilized but it was a tool in the box. In regards to Somers Bigger Hat than You, would returning to the 1st edition version, titled A Gremlin's Luck be a better option? It only had a 12" range and a lowish TN without a resist but did require Somer to suffer wounds to cause the control card discard, one for each card.
  10. While I agree that the range could have benefited from a reduction to perhaps 12" both @Thatguy and @ShinChan are proving my point. Bigger Hat than You wasn't OP'ed or even very reliable, however, when it did go off, it was often memorable. This is much more true when it removed an opponents killer hand. A lot of the M3e fixes for Somer and his crew seem very reactive to things that were perceived to be overly powerful but in actuality were very difficult to setup, sustain, or count on. The first time you see these abilities they are daunting and negative, however, after that they become much less worrisome and easily countered. This is an example of the exact weakness of Bigger Hat than You. To really be effective Somer has to go early in the turn, like activation 1 or 2. This locks him down in a lot of ways. Secondly, Somer needs to prioritize his other actions to ensure he can still have a presence on the table after Bigger Hat than You. This often depletes at least some of Somer's control hand (at least it has in the games I have played, and yes even when running Super Solo Somer). This means that Bigger Hat than You is usually going last in Somer's activation. If it is his last action then really, your opponent only needs to stop it once. Barring a Red Joker flip from the deck, then your opponent is fairly likely to have something to cheat it with. Sure the lower WP Masters can struggle against it, but if they have a control hand worth protecting then it shouldn't be to difficult to beat. Now when the perfect storm rolls in, say a Red Joker flip for Somer on the cast preventing the opponent from cheating, forces your opponent with a WP 6 Master to have to dump their control hand of awesomeness, it is definitely memorable. While memorable it is not dependable or even really strong as the disadvantages at least balance against the possible gains. Even with low WP masters though, the possibility of Bigger Hat than You just incentives them to use those high value cards earlier in the turn before Somer goes, unless he goes first. This is where I think the real power of Bigger Hat than You is, not its use, but the threat of its use. Bayou Two Card is another example of this. Is it really a great ability? I would, and have, argued no. It is very inconsistent and really only worth considering in a very narrow range of initial card flip values. If the initial flip is a 6 or 7 then B2C is a real crap shoot, that is just as likely to produce a lower value as higher. If it is a 7 or higher, then B2C becomes more of a liability than a benefit. It is fun, and memorable when you cheat using B2C and a higher value card pops out, but it is definitely not dependable. Perhaps the attempt in M3e to make Somer predictable is why there is so much push back against the changes. People who were attracted to Somer in 1st and 2nd editions knew his idiosyncrasies and high risk low probability power combos. We learned to compensate or at least try and mitigate them. The Gremlin Gun Lines I run are an example of this. Do I count on hitting well enough to cheat the damage? Hell no, Bayou Gremlins don't have the stats to do that but a hit is a hit none the less and barring the appearance of a Black Joker is goign to produce 1 Damage regardless. Individually a model doesn't have to worry about a single Bayou Gremlin, but in a large enough swarm those bee stings can kil even the toughest Masters. These things were the gremlins charm. They definitely don't have that feel anymore. Some may be happy with that, but others didn't buy into Gremlins for consistency, but for fun. I haven't had fun playing Gremlins in M3e. This is a shame but this late in the game I don't expect it to change. I am not trying to diminish anyone else's opinions or experiences, merely trying to express my own.
  11. We have had some very different experiences with Bigger Hat Than You. I really feel it is yet another one of those Gremlin examples of a perfect storm memory (like Bayou Two Card). In my experiences, it rarely did anything other than ferret the occasional high card for the resist, and then only if the opponent had a hand worth preserving. Perhaps my community just plays with a ton of LOS blocking terrain that really mitigates the impact.
  12. I am really hoping Somer and his crew see some very major redesigns with the next file release. They are a hot mess with a lot of his "benefits" being very nearly negated by a "hard" control hand count and the pass mechanic, not to mention victim stats on Bayou Gremlins (why even have a defense trigger that they are very unlikely to ever win and also likely wont survive if they lose?). He really didn't require this level of adjustment from last edition.
  13. Think you have the wrong attribution there @bedjy As I said earlier I am glad that this time at least Wyrd has provided a method of reporting play test concerns other than in the public forums. It is something that I am sure is being well utilized by those who have had less than stellar experiences with past methodologies. However, I don't feel as if stating that crews don't play like they used to or have changed substantially from previous versions is overly negative as much as it is a statement of fact. To each his own I guess. @Davie Battle Reports definitely provide some good data points but have not proven all that successful at keeping things balanced or clear over the years. Plenty of things have been supported by battle reports only to become major issues after general release. Always with the wider community asking "how did this get thru play testing?" Often the answer is it didn't, but the "hard" data and a vocal group supported no modification/ or modification while other play testers were resigned to a silent "I told you so" later. Play testing is both art and science and every player base largely unique. What one player may find weak, another finds extremely potent. Sometimes feeling or perceptions are just as, if not more, important than the hard data. There are a few M3e inclusions that I definitely feel are going to be major issues once they hit the wild (and yes I reported them during the closed beta). In my opinion, gremlins more so than any other faction have found themselves in this conundrum more often than any other faction or model set as a product of their design. When the cards are favorable and the player skilled, Gremlin crews can do some absolutely wonderful things, when they are not they tend to fall flat hard and fast. Many in the communities I have played with considered my Gremlin crews extremely broken the first time out, after a few games though, they are much less terrified and have become very skilled at countering them. The crux of this thread's discussion appears to be one side arguing that the faction/ crews they love and play don't feel like their old selves while the other side is arguing it is a new game so approach it as such. A new edition doesn't have to "throw the baby out with the bath water," I would argue that there was an awful lot that could have stayed exactly as it was and still produced an improved experience through surgical rebalancing and core rules clarifications (except the elevation rules which were largely unplayable and needed much more than a scalpel). Again you may disagree, and that is fine, but I would wager a larger segment of the Malifaux community did not expect the significant changes M3e is bringing. I know I didn't and that is one reason I made a suggestion to Wyrd staffers during the closed period to begin "prepping the battlefield" publicly so the community might understand the "why" of the designers changes and hopefully reduce the inevitable player attrition a new edition causes (as I have mentioned previously, this is a major concern for a publisher now that GW is actively courting skirmish level players). Lastly, I would caution against assuming that other posters were not or did not participate in the closed or open beta sessions (again the internet is a difficult medium for gauging tone, but there does appear to be a dismissive one in some of these postings). Not everyone in a group had to post individually to voice thier opinions or experiences, and not every play test group had access to other groups discussions. It is an even more dangerous assumption now that Wyrd is allowing direct (non-forum) anonymous reporting during the open play test period. I do appreciate the passion and largely congenial discourse though, and again am glad to see that others are having a very different experience. Should those who are not happy with the final published game decide to leave, then it will fall upon the shoulders of those who are to keep things going.
  14. No offense Bedjy, but you are exhibiting exactly the behavior that keeps many of us from participating in these play tests. That is not good for the community or the game. What you call "Whining" is other players voicing their legitimate concerns about the game. There is nothing wrong with that, it is after all how we arrived at an edition change in the first place. If no one whined about the elevation and LOS rules would the new edition have devoted any development time to improving them? How about all the whining about balance, without that would we even be play testing a new edition? Your suggestion to Will only ensure that when we come back the game would definitely not be what we expected or enjoy and by then it will be too late to adjust anything. I wont speak for anyone other than myself, but this isn't my first rodeo with Wyrd play testing or a Malifaux edition change. While this one has been rather tame in comparison to the last one, the heat is starting to rise as enthusiastic supporters of the changes try shouting down those who are not. Nothing good comes from dismissing or trivializing the legitimate concerns of others as simply whining or faction bias, other than having to rebuild communities when the dust settles. It wasn't easy rebuilding after the last edition change and this one will likely be just as difficult since GW seems interested in pulling in a share of the skirmish game community.
  15. Well I appreciate that Fixxer. I understand wanting the new edition to succeed, I do as well. I have to much money tied up with Malifaux ( It is easier to list the handful of crews I don't own than the ones I do) and way more time invested building communities and play testing over the years to want otherwise. As I said in my original post though, the new edition is bringing much more change than I think a lot of the community was really expecting. Rebalancing and rules cleanup is one thing, and something that definitely needed to occur; however many crews are very different from what they were even in M2e and that is a tough pill to swallow for a lot of folks.
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