GG2 / The road to the exit?

[Adran]

6 minutes ago, 74legion said:

Just a reflection.

The faction does not have a model of mining Soulstone (well, we are stupid for 100500 years did not think to do this). Whether it's People.

This is right on the History of the world and does not break it in any way.

I agree, this is consistent with the lore. Neverborn are not likely to mine soul stone, they have too much respect for it.

[extremor]

1 hour ago, Nagi21 said:

 

You get 2 heals with a non-built in trigger for a single action on two different models.  Candy offers more options and the same healing unless you don't have a mask for one stone more.  I expect some early attempts to make Serena work followed by a lot of Candy play

I think serena will still be quite good in nightmare because it still is a free action that heals 2 models (if mask) and then there is this new healing trigger with 1“+ max 8“ + 3“ Range... 

dunno if she will be played in other keywords that often. Depends on the possible healing/condition removal of the keyword and on the opponent. 

[74legion]

7 minutes ago, Adran said:

I agree, this is consistent with the lore. Neverborn are not likely to mine soul stone, they have too much respect for it.

They do not want to or do not know how. This can be considered disgusting or forbidden. But the model of the half-blood/cursed-could be.

[santaclaws01]

On 4/23/2021 at 6:00 AM, vlad vladov said:

Now for Vivid nightmares (and Lucid Dreams).

Forces you to return the cards. Let's count 3 Daydream 3 St 2 Alp plus LCB.

We throw out 9 cards from them there will be 3 good(10+) 3 normal(6+) 3 bad(1-5). Then We Will Return 5. 4 Out of the game (and most likely 3 will be 10+ for Gamble).

Great news 1 bad cards out of play 3 conditionally good ones too. These cards will not come to your hand will not work for the attack and defense of the ENTIRE gang(for example, 1, 7, 10, 13).

The entire 2nd round is played without them.(this also affects us). And it turns out, as a result of long calculations, that we have 3-4 cards out of the game at the beginning of the round. Because we have to keep there 2-3 10+ that per round we use. Well, or 5-6( if 5- ), which I do not believe, since for 9 Lucid Dreams you can not pull out 6+ three at a time is unreal luck.

As a result, this ability to remove 5t cards from the game. Well, great - a good way to get people to buy Society. Or leave the hobby for a while or completely. The time is difficult now, everyone has little money. I hope Wird has everything figured out.

You shouldn't be removing more severe cards than you need for gambles. Period. The only reason you should have 3 severe cards in your removed pile at the end of turn is if you just keep lucking into not needing to use them for gambles, at which point you're better off just leaving them removed to use that turn and putting back the weaks instead(assuming you've put back the mods first).

[LexLock]

25 minutes ago, santaclaws01 said:

You shouldn't be removing more severe cards than you need for gambles. Period. The only reason you should have 3 severe cards in your removed pile at the end of turn is if you just keep lucking into not needing to use them for gambles, at which point you're better off just leaving them removed to use that turn and putting back the weaks instead(assuming you've put back the mods first).

You know you can use Fiendish Gamble on defence right? Or on shockwaves or on damage. You can use Lucid Dreams to sculpt a hand of severes for your stitched, which takes all card pressure off the rest of the crew.

[santaclaws01]

13 minutes ago, LexLock said:

You know you can use Fiendish Gamble on defence right? 

That's what moderates are for, unless you need it to remain there for points in which case that falls under the branch of "more ... than you need for gambles".

14 minutes ago, LexLock said:

Or on shockwaves

Who are you spending severes to resist a shockwave with?

14 minutes ago, LexLock said:

or on damage.

To be able to use it on damage requires pre-planning and falls under the branch of "more ... than you need for gambles.

15 minutes ago, LexLock said:

which takes all card pressure off the rest of the crew.

Yes, by using fiendish gamble to get back the high moderates.

Having a glut of removed severe cards that you were never going to use was bad before the errata. It's even worse now.

[Passenty]

7 hours ago, 74legion said:

Just a reflection.

The faction does not have a model of mining Soulstone (well, we are stupid for 100500 years did not think to do this). Whether it's People.

This is right on the History of the world and does not break it in any way.

I honestly hope we wont see more models mining stones the ones we already have a problematic enough

[Maniacal_cackle]

12 hours ago, Nagi21 said:

I mean... they must have poor ARC players cause SE USA meta is all ARC killing everyone.  

That meta won't be representative of the whole world. I have found that people have very different experiences in different metas (in our meta, the best player is a Resser player, so that's the faction that wins the most).

I've also found that the best players I've ever played have been through the Vassal games. The Vassal World Series has some pretty incredible talent, so I don't think you can dismiss them as poor players.

For reference, here's how Neverborn did last season:

And Arcanists:

Note of course most masters in the series will have winrates less than 50%, since the top masters have a LOT of wins. Titania and Zoraida show that Neverborn has some pretty solid strength still, though (and I wouldn't write off Dreamer).

[Thatguy]

5 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

For reference, here's how Neverborn did last season:

And Arcanists:

Do you have a link to this data? It would be fun to look at.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Just now, Thatguy said:

Do you have a link to this data? It would be fun to look at.

I snagged it from the discord chats, with one thing in each faction chat.

But I think Capshinchan said he would be putting up a breakdown at some point.

[Greatfrito]

8 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I find the fact that the X axis numbers don't line up between those two charts incredibly frustrating. 😝

[Maniacal_cackle]

26 minutes ago, Greatfrito said:

I find the fact that the X axis numbers don't line up between those two charts incredibly frustrating. 😝

The main thing that matters is the winrates which you have to manually calculate xD

I think the person who does the data is going to put it in a prettier format for when it gets posted

[Vessien]

1 hour ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

The main thing that matters is the winrates which you have to manually calculate xD

I think the person who does the data is going to put it in a prettier format for when it gets posted

It would be great to have access to the raw data to create a dashboard 🤓

[Nagi21]

23 hours ago, Ogid said:

Serena is way weaker now and it's going to be a problem when condition removal is needed but the other player can deny Demises (things like Manos or Cooper for example)... but I've never liked a faction relying so hard on a model so maybe now we'll see other models coming or other adjustments where needed (in anohter year, that's the bad part tho...)

This is the problem.  The other factions have options, particularly the ones doing very well, while NVB are pigeonholed into using the one option they have to a problem (see IR, Serena, etc), then get punished for it by getting it removed.  Then we have to deal with those changes for at least a year before anything is fixed (and yes I say fixed, because we had to deal with a legitimately broken Shenlong for how long?).  I switched out of the clusterfuck that is current NVB only because I still had outcast stuff from when I got in back in 1st edition.  If I only had a few NVB crews at this point?  I'd probably be leaving the game rather than reinvesting in an entirely new faction.  I feel bad for the newer people to this game (assuming we have any coming in at this point).

Edit: Didn't mean to post 3 times.  My browser and the website had a stroke.

[extremor]

Maybe we get some nice toys in the NVB starter. Still believe in Wyrd. 
 

 I am one of the NVB newbies (started Malifaux in M3E with arcanists and 1 year later got into NVB). In casual games NVB still are my beloved even though it is a way uphill. 

[Adran]

I think there was 9 months from the the release of the game to the first errata, so I guess that suggests an answer to your first question. Several neverborn players disagree that you are pigeon holed into only1 way to play.  The faction didn't die in this past year despite the change to inhuman reflexes, as some seemed to think it would. It's entirely possible it can survive this change as well. 

Yes, you can't play the dreamer the way you did last week. You will probably find his new best way is not as good as his old best way. I would say all summoners are going to find that problem and have to adapt. 

[MrPieChee]

The way I read the errata release, there will be another explorers errata in less than an year (3 months?) which might have some other changes...

[Maniacal_cackle]

2 hours ago, extremor said:

Maybe we get some nice toys in the NVB starter. Still believe in Wyrd. 
 

 I am one of the NVB newbies (started Malifaux in M3E with arcanists and 1 year later got into NVB). In casual games NVB still are my beloved even though it is a way uphill. 

I wouldn't be too discouraged, Neverborn were/are pretty powerful! For example, last time the relative faction rankings were posted for the World Series, here they were:

1. Explorers 64.92
2. Ressers 58.90
3. Neverborn 57.38
4. Arcanists 55.49
5. Outcasts 53.99
6. Guild 52.40
7. Bayou 51.37
8. Ten Thunders 50.30 

Neverborn were the third highest ranking faction at that time, in a pool with some insanely good players. So I'd say Neverborn can hold their own

[Nagi21]

2 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I wouldn't be too discouraged, Neverborn were/are pretty powerful! For example, last time the relative faction rankings were posted for the World Series, here they were:

1. Explorers 64.92
2. Ressers 58.90
3. Neverborn 57.38
4. Arcanists 55.49
5. Outcasts 53.99
6. Guild 52.40
7. Bayou 51.37
8. Ten Thunders 50.30 

Neverborn were the third highest ranking faction at that time, in a pool with some insanely good players. So I'd say Neverborn can hold their own

Now take the Dreamer and Kharnage games out and let me know what the rankings are 😏

[74legion]

An example is an indicator that the players who have taken a high place really play well, and not at all that the majority of players for this faction play as effectively. They want to have fun, not suffer because of the shortcomings that are obvious to the players of this faction.

[Adran]

59 minutes ago, Nagi21 said:

Now take the Dreamer and Kharnage games out and let me know what the rankings are 😏

Just remember to  also take out Colette, von schtock, Leviticus, McCabe and Sommer results...

Dreamer was the 5 th most successful neverborn master last month. Removing dreamer probably ups their results...

 

I appreciate your experience may differ, I just want you to appreciate your experience may differ. 

[Alcathous]

7 hours ago, Vessien said:

It would be great to have access to the raw data to create a dashboard 🤓

The MWS is slowly working on a dashboard: check it out

This is where the data MC posted is going to be. The guys working on it are putting the final touches on this new tab. It's a work in progress, but if you have data questions you'd like answered, let us know and we'll add it to the to-do list.

[extremor]

36 minutes ago, Adran said:

Dreamer was the 5 th most successful neverborn master last month. Removing dreamer probably ups their results...

Really? Which rank was Lucius? Which Marcus? Or: where can I get these infos?

[Adran]

8 minutes ago, extremor said:

Really? Which rank was Lucius? Which Marcus? Or: where can I get these infos?

I go to the threads in the vassel section and the organisers have a link in their Sig or starting posts to the data in some kind of database. I haven't really worked how to use it well, but I can at least get win percentage and games played for each event. I don't think it's that useful as data to judge power level on, but it can at least show what others are having success with. 

[extremor]

27 minutes ago, Adran said:

I go to the threads in the vassel section and the organisers have a link in their Sig or starting posts to the data in some kind of database. I haven't really worked how to use it well, but I can at least get win percentage and games played for each event. I don't think it's that useful as data to judge power level on, but it can at least show what others are having success with. 

Oh I was thinking about getting help and support from more experienced and successful players to increase my play with Lucius and Marcus... thx.