Greatfrito

I'm pretty excited about adding variety to the keywords I like, especially since I've just about hit my limit of "characters I'm excited to play", and have so incredibly little interest in buying keywords I'm not thematically interested in just to be "more competitive". I haven't personally been terribly excited about the titled versions of "my" masters, but it's an undeniably neat idea and I'm willing to try them out (and hopeful some of "my" other masters get titles that are more exciting to me).

Yeah, I think they kind of have to be. Given what we're seeing so far, I'm not ready to really start expecting huge shifts in what any given master does just from a title. On the Arcanist side of things, I'll just echo what everyone is saying about Rasputina. I don't care if it's mid-range, long-range, or somehow a frontline melee brawler (though that sounds dumb), I'd like to have a more deadly version of Raspy. I would love to see the mob markers (or whatever the heck they were) from that one 2e Ramos upgrade come back in some form with Ironsides. Maybe have the tokens "count as a model with the Unionized ability" to synergize with the crew's gimmick a bit? She's gonna have Adrenaline Tokens still, and she should still be a brawler, but maybe slightly less inherently tarpit-y, and more directly face-smash-y? Or hell, maybe they barely tweak her at all, and she's just a little more mobile with less ability to pull targets in. I really do not know how much change to expect from the titles still.

I suspect the titles aren't going to be as dramatic of departures as maybe some of us are hoping/theorizing. As far as I'm aware, they're only changes to the master itself, right? So it has to be something where (a) the new version of the master can work alongside the models already available, and (b) the existing models have to still work with the new version of the master. I don't know what they'll do with Von Schill, for example - it feels like he still needs to pass out his upgrades, but I'm not sure how they'll shift that around. Could be neat if they just tweaked him a little so that his attacks were more about making use of his troops. Friekorps-only obeys or something. Or just more ways to let them have free attacks. A simple change to Zipp would be to shift his attacks and Piano-marker-dropping actions around a bit. Give him a Piano-Cannon attack - a once-per-activation attack that deals damage and drops a piano marker on (or y'know, in base contact with) the target. Maybe a 176 Keys of DEATH trigger to add an extra blast to the damage and drop a second piano marker. Dread Pirate Zipp? A very simple one I would love to see is the Viks getting their damn sword back. Could be interesting if it was done on an upgrade card, and they could pass it back and forth like McCabe's crew do with items - but again, I'm not even sure if titles will ever include cards other than just a new Master card.

Neat!

(Let me preface by saying, I don't know the game nearly as well as most of you, so obviously this won't be perfect as-is) I was thinking something like.... My Dream: Choose and discard a friendly card that has been removed from the game. Drop a 30mm Dreamscape marker. Enemy models treat the area within a 2" of the Dreamscape marker, and any terrain piece touching a Dreamscape marker, as Hazardous (Distracted +1). Dreams Bad: [Some way to alter the effects of Dreamscape. Maybe upgrades, like Thatguy suggested, or maybe just end-of-turn effects.] Oh God That Building/Crate/Bush/Water Is Trying to Eat Me: [An attack that can draw LoS and range from terrain affected by Dreamscape markers, or Dreamscape markers themselves. Does gnarly things, maybe pulls targets into the area where they'll be affected by his terrain shenanigans, maybe allows you to unbury nightmare models adjacent, with some other ability letting him bury them?] Just a big messy turn-the-battlefield-into-a-nightmare-realm boy. Maybe keep him really supporty. Maybe some way to buff allies near Dreamscape markers - or maybe an action that can either buff or bury them. [EDIT:] Maybe that "support" ability could look like... Nightmare Fuel: Targets a Dreamscape marker or terrain piece touching a Dreamscape marker; Friendly Nightmare models within 2" of the target can push 2". (With triggers: [built in], bury one of the affected models; they all get also get Shielded +1; they all get Focused +1; some other buff, or increase the push, or something) ... Well heck, now I'm just going to be disappointed with whatever they actually give us. 😝 [Also Edit:] Whatever they do, Dreamer needs some way to bury and unbury his own Nightmare models, just so that his models that interact with that still do all their things.

I would love to see an alternate version of Dreamer that traded summoning nightmares for more of a focus on reality-alteration around him. Maybe a way to change the terrain traits for terrain/markers, as well as placing his own. Literally shaping the world around him to better toy with his foes. I know mechanically the idea overlaps with some other terrain-based masters, but it would fit him really well thematically, and could be a really interesting way to give him a different playstyle.

You lost me. Alternatively: What's the eighth of the Seven Deadly Sins? Pedantry? 😝

I find the fact that the X axis numbers don't line up between those two charts incredibly frustrating. 😝

Pick them up just for that! Other people can give you better, more informed opinions than I can, but from personal experience inching my way into the game, you're better off just grabbing what interests you the most. You'll enjoy all the work getting them to the table more if you do, and you'll probably enjoy playing them more. Picking your first few masters from the same faction is ideal, though, if you want to really play how it's supposed to be played. (I did not, but don't regret it.) As for complexity, eh, you'll be fine. My 9yo son plays with me, and never even considered "beginner friendly" at all. He plays Hoffman and Dreamer, and is probably going to steal my Pandora too once I get it painted. Oh. Summoners can be a pain in the ass, both for how many models you need to prep, and because of how they interact with things. I'd say it's a good idea to wait on them when you're starting out, but hey, I sure as heck didn't.

That he didn't have it was so bewildering. Giving it to him felt necessary from just a "common sense" perspective. Not that I will mind that he does have it, at all. I love the model, and I'm glad he's going to get to be the beast he looks like he should be. Now if only the Rex gave Reichart free . 😄

I'm sure it will play fine (and being able to consistently have ~1/5th or more of your deck out per round is still amazing), I'm just complaining about... rules aesthetics? I don't even know how to describe what I'm complaining about. Uh. Let me put it another way... "Reality manipulation" shown through an ever-increasing control of your own deck was a unique, clever, and slick idea. Something that got the concept across really well, in a way that was pretty unique to Malifaux's mechanics. I just kind of hate to see that given a kind of clunky limiter. 🤷‍♂️ Oh well. Edited to add: I just started painting some of my Big Hat, too. Feeling kind of bummed about the lower summoning stat and the general hit to summoning... Maybe I'll work on Apex instead. Or the DUA/Umbra models I picked up "just to get the puppet sprue" in the last sale.

My huge, totally meaningful, big-brained complaint about Vivid Nightmares is that it sounds awkward and tacked on and I'm only going to remember it because of how much everyone is discussing it. I also kind of liked the "snowballing deck" thing. It was an interesting, unique, gimmick (edit: probably my favorite weird gimmick in 3e). I wish it could have been handled/addressed in a less uh... disruptive? way. Kept the concept intact better, or something.

I get that it's supposed to keep Dreamer from snowballing via Lucid Dreaming. It's slightly less awful than I thought initially, since the cards go into your discard on the next round. Lucid still pulls cards out for at least one round, potentially more. I really liked the "snowball" thing from a thematic perspective. I wish they could have found a way to handle it that wasn't quite so draining.

You discard half of the cards you've removed with Lucid Dreaming during each Start Phase.

Agreed, especially on the "fluff" thing. I hate seeing little fluffy bit excised for "balance", particularly when it seems unnecessary.

I would like to see more bumps up in the future, too. The nerfs make sense on how they were targeted to bring things in line (except Explorers, but I also understand holding off on that... so long as it isn't put off a whole year), but "big list of nerfs" just kind of feels bad. Buffs offset that and make the whole thing a bit more palatable.

Curious if the new Reichart update will boost folks' opinions of him.

I appreciate that Reichart got Execute - that always seemed like an odd missing piece. Sudden Strike and I've Got This seem like welcome additions, too. It might help that Hoffman and Basse are the only two Guild masters I have so far, and that I play hoooooooorribly casually.

In the field of education, we're calling that "distance learning".

Like Rogue Legacy, but gremlins. So better.

I'm a big proponent of "You can tell interesting stories with nearly any game genre", so while an RPG would be a great way to make use of everything, I could see all kinds of different things being adapted off of the universe. Atmospheric horror game? Absolutely. Something like Left4Dead/Vermintide? Sure! Something more like Bioshock/Dishonored/SystemShock/Prey? Could totally work! You could probably even do a battle royale if you wanted to actually cash in for money, but... please don't? (Though something like Apex, or another "hero" game like League/DotA could make interesting use of the huge cast of interesting characters.) Something like Diablo/Torchlight would fit incredibly well. Something like XCom could work great, and be more mechanically similar to Malifaux itself. (I actually think this would be a "best fit" if you wanted to adapt the mechanics of the game. Maybe do a bunch of different smaller "campaigns", one for each Faction, with some branching aspects depending on which Master you play as or focus on or whatever.) A survival/crafting game as a human stuck on Malifaux when the first gate closed? Sure! A metroidvania-style game? Where you play as a Gremlin? And slowly accumulate more and more useful junk? And learn abilities from interacting/fighting with other characters? Wait, now I want this right now. Some kind of roguelike? Again, gremlins being a good fit. A city sim game about managing a frontier settlement in Malifaux? Alright, yeah, sorry. Got a little out of hand there, but you see my point. An RPG is a natural direction to take a story/character-rich IP, but there is a massive amount of potential if you go in different ways.

I love the setting/world/characters, and would love to see the IP expand into other mediums. I don't think I would want a direct adaptation of the tabletop game, though. There's so much potential to do other things with the IP, without being fixated on the mechanics of the game itself. An RPG - in some shape or form - would be ideal. But heck, I like the Malifaux setting enough that I would love to see multiple games/shows/whatevers expanded out from it.

When I was first starting in (what ended up being extremely late) 2e, I really appreciated the mercenary models you could hire into any keyword. I picked a lot of them up, in part because I generally liked many of them, but also because it made it so that I could grab a master's core box and be able to play it. I think that's a pretty useful thing to have available as someone just hopping into the game. 3e's Versatile models aren't quite as flexible, but I still like having them to bulk up options within a faction. From a casual standpoint, they're not AS important since you can hire on other masters and mix your crews like that to start, if you really need to. It feels like there's enough synergy in most keywords that I prefer sticking to my keyword in most cases. My (very uninformed) perspective is that the "problems" with Versatile models and "super friends" lists are problems of balance with specific keywords or models, and not the concept as a whole.

This was my immediate thought after reading the original post. I'm all for interesting weird things. I think it's a terrible idea for "patching" the game - just update the existing cards if you need to do that. I think it would probably be more reasonable to have alternate cards... come with alternate models. Another take on Dreamer? Sure! Here's the alternate card and the alternate model that goes with it. Isn't that the actual plan with titles? Though like the idea of "generic upgrades", having full alternate takes for a single model could be fun to include in a campaign ruleset, or like optional rules or something.

I think if you're trying to "elevate" weaker models, it's just better to address the individual problems specifically, and avoid possible problematic interactions. You would need to target generic upgrades so specifically to avoid them benefiting already-powerful models that you would essentially end up working on "specific situations" anyways.