Nagi21

Did we ever get a solid answer on the whole 3/2/1 with the jokers, because the rules say the ability is supposed to clarify, but it obviously doesn't.

I would say Hinamatsu is actually a pretty good leader, if to only have a few tricks on hand to keep in the back pocket.

The main issue I don't see people running Marcus in NVB aside from it being a better ARC crew, is that it plays so very similar to Zoraida, and Zoraida is better by a loooooong barrel.

I'm not as confident as you are in the new GG2. Sure the strategies are slightly more favored, but claim jump just became significantly harder since NVB lack a decent tank outside of Titania, and Vendetta got nerfed due to the new replace rules. I expect the gains in possible strat points will be offset by the losses on the scheme side and it'll be similar to GG1. I mean... by that logic then Leveticus needs a massive buff instead of the nerf he got, but I don't know that you'd survive the rioting trying to argue that 😆

I mean if you think they're doing well from one event where they are being carried by a singular master, I can't really argue with your logic. I bash because I've seen the faction fall into the abyss over the last two years to the point where it's an uphill climb unless you want to do some one-trick cheese build i.e. Dreamer. NVB has gone the way of the Guild.

I mean... between Leveticus, Parker, Von Schill, Viktoria, and Zipp, I'm not pigeonholed into one great crew and a handful of mediocre ones and playing with one arm tied behind my back. But you do you. According to the info Cackle posted, they went 2-8 combined, with Lucius going winless, which doesn't surprise me in the slightest considering Marcus is an ARC master that likes to paint himself purple to fit in and Lucius is trying to comprehend the details of 5D chess during a hockey game.

Now take the Dreamer and Kharnage games out and let me know what the rankings are 😏

This is the problem. The other factions have options, particularly the ones doing very well, while NVB are pigeonholed into using the one option they have to a problem (see IR, Serena, etc), then get punished for it by getting it removed. Then we have to deal with those changes for at least a year before anything is fixed (and yes I say fixed, because we had to deal with a legitimately broken Shenlong for how long?). I switched out of the clusterfuck that is current NVB only because I still had outcast stuff from when I got in back in 1st edition. If I only had a few NVB crews at this point? I'd probably be leaving the game rather than reinvesting in an entirely new faction. I feel bad for the newer people to this game (assuming we have any coming in at this point). Edit: Didn't mean to post 3 times. My browser and the website had a stroke.

I mean... they must have poor ARC players cause SE USA meta is all ARC killing everyone. You get 2 heals with a non-built in trigger for a single action on two different models. Candy offers more options and the same healing unless you don't have a mask for one stone more. I expect some early attempts to make Serena work followed by a lot of Candy play.

Aside from Collette herself, I fail to see how this Errata fixed the fact that ARC have a solution to everything, have 3 massively OP upgrades, and one of the best summoners in the game. Serena is done. 1/2/3 healing per turn on a Df5/6 hp (even with eternal) does not an 8 stone model make. Candy is a better option at 9 stones by a long barrel. I expect most people to start taking the wild child now and that Candy gets nerfed into oblivion next errata since that's now our only healing option.

It's almost like there was one competitive keyword in the faction and people kept playing it vs nonsense like Collette and Sandeep. Can't play with the old toys if there's no toys that are useful anymore!

Could always say that only applies to Blade Rush (like how some people read the clarifications of "another model" to only apply to Nekima since it's under her ability 🙄), but I'd agree lol. I just wonder about the Obey implications.

I mean... the charge caused the stampede ability so one could argue the damage suffered is due to the charge action. Arguably.

Not gonna lie, this statement explains so much...

I have rarely used them, however there is one situation where I've brought them successfully multiple times. They are exceptionally good for cost vs armored crews (just armored, not armored + htw + etc or armored + guns), because you can toss them in as cheap black blood bombs to plink away at models. I'm not saying bring 4, but I've brought multiple to play when I expected armor based models.

Follow up question: Are Dead Outlaws actually good? Cause if so this isn't actually a bad idea to run with.

Hmm... 3/5/6 vs 3/4/5 with + to damage flips (i.e. focus bonus). Not saying you're wrong... but you're wrong. 😁 I mean... she's really not a good character though. She's one-dimensional in that either you defer to her, or you get put on her shitlist. She doesn't hide her schemes well, and you can't really sit there and actually tell me you don't expect either her or Titania to get smacked in the face by the other (and spoiler... Titania is a lot scarier) eventually. Lilith at least knew the eventuality and took steps to account for it. Nekima thinks she's going to be something more than a pawn in Titania's game. If you think otherwise, I'd like to point you in the direction of Diamond's body and the fiasco that ensued.

Yea... would be so sad for something to happen to the petulant child of the faction so she could be replaced with someone with more depth than "big sword go bonk". 😒 Her greatsword isn't even a greatsword.

I've been saying Wyrd is balancing Neverborn and Nephilim around you for the last year, and nobody wants to listen, even though you are the only one keeping her even remotely relevant. She's not good unless you are much better than your opponent, in a favorable matchup, and you bring a hyper-optimized list. Also hype is overrated. Lilith was plenty hyped in 2e and now we're still waiting for her to come home and fix this fiasco. I've taken hounds before in very specific situations where I wanted some fast and disposable blood bombs. They do yeoman's work against armor.

Oh I'm not saying Silurids are bad, I'm just using them as an example of something that is just mobile and can't stay vs a dedicated attack. Not bad when the model is a 5 stone runner... very bad when the model is a 7-10 stone minion or master. A lot of terrain. The problem isn't usually getting there, the problem is that 3e models are much more survivable vs alpha strike so you take way more as Nephilim than you give once you go in. Good for attrition crews, bad for Nephilim.

I mean... Titania took over, Nekima took over, then the whole faction just dropped like a rock. Seems pretty obvious the leadership is... questionable lol. She can be fun, but fun =/= competitive. I mean you yourself said you had stopped playing your "God Empress" in GG1 because the only thing keeping her viable got nerfed for no reason. The minions are fun but the crew itself is really quite underwhelming, and very one trick. They melt into anything that can hold up to min 3 damage or out position them (Rezzers, Arcanists, Thunders), and their only viable strategy is a BBS bomb then run around and hope they don't get killed before they can lay into something. They have their good matchups, but they don't punch above their weight anymore because everyone thinks min 3 damage is better than it actually is. Not to mention Nekima herself is this... hodgepodge of abilities and actions that don't at all synergize with each other. There was a reason Nephilim were good in 2e. Lilith was a beatstick (a better beatstick than 3e Nekima mind you), and had defense, and had positioning tricks. The whole kit synergized together. Nekima is literally a heavily nerfed version. If I wanted to play a scalpel game reliant on positioning, I'd play Lucius or Zoraida (or hell even Dreamer can do that).

It's a game of mobility + survivability. It doesn't matter how mobile she is if she dies to any kind of reasonable offense (see: Silurids).

Another thing that I'm seeing missed about WtM and why it's not very good, is it isn't good vs. normal summons that summon more than one model (looking at you Sandeep), since not only do you have to yeet a card, but you only get to attack one of the god knows how many things that just appeared on the board.

Ruthless is an issue for the entire faction, which makes running into TT or the like miserable anyway. Poltergeist is in a bad spot because if it gets a defensive buff it becomes stupidly good (not that stupid good totems don't exist), but without defensive buffs, the insane supporting buffs never actually get to be used in actual play. I don't expect Wyrd to make any changes to him though with their current mindset. Shooting is also an issue for most of the faction, that's just been life as NVB since 1e. 7 for a shockwave isn't that uncommon. Fears given form isn't really the play you should be making with Pandora since it's just 2 damage and possibly a push. It could be useful sometimes, but on the times you want to use it you'll almost certainly be saving a 7 for it. Box open should have a 7 because it's a 14 wp with both damage and condition effect. Agree on the card draw problem though, but again, that's the faction not the crew. They have ranged options they can do regardless of being engaged, along with auras to punish, them not having melee really doesn't hurt that much, especially since charge + melee would be shorter than the 10" on self loathing. I agree there's some wasted AP to get closer when you want to use your shorter range things like Box Opens, but that's not that bad. Rider does help the crew alot though, usually with Candy. I mean comparing any crew with Dreamer is just unfair since he's the only thing keeping the faction relevant (which is why most discussions about NVB competitiveness have the qualifier "without Dreamer"). Like I stated before in this thread, Pandora has very few middling matchups. Either she's very good, or very bad, into whatever your opponent brought. There are safer picks besides Dreamer (Zoraida and Titania have less matchups they lose hard, but much less they should run away with too), but Pandora has her place, particularly if you can read your opponents pick. The faction needs work, and Pandora needs work as part of it. Don't you mean a missed opportunist? XD

You think the new one is bad? The original metal one has one tiny hoof supporting the entire thing straight up lol. Nekima has always been a PitA to base.