When are you going to nerf Dashel

[trikk]

4 hours ago, 4thstringer said:

It's not an always or even an often thing.  But it's an important option that will occasionally draw you a card.

You can obey a lawyer to obey a lawyer

[DuBlanck]

@4thstringer I gathered that, but it always felt like card cycling at best - I'm likely cheating a 9, ~2 points above the average value of what is coming off the deck, I don't see the profit in using that action to either gamble on top-decking a 9+, or FO drawing a 9+.

Is the chance of drawing a 9+ worth spending a 9? Is it just "I might as well gamble, since this 9 is only reserved for a discard anyway"?

I've seen it said that 9s and even 10s are barely considered high cards by some players, but defensively they will lock most damage flips to -ve, and offensively they can beat a flip to force a cheat.

It makes perfect sense with the low-TN orders available elsewhere, but specifically Lawyer-Lawyer Obeys seem expensive unless you're getting something high-value from it on top of proccing Following Orders.

[4thstringer]

4 hours ago, DuBlanck said:

@4thstringer I gathered that, but it always felt like card cycling at best - I'm likely cheating a 9, ~2 points above the average value of what is coming off the deck, I don't see the profit in using that action to either gamble on top-decking a 9+, or FO drawing a 9+.

Is the chance of drawing a 9+ worth spending a 9? Is it just "I might as well gamble, since this 9 is only reserved for a discard anyway"?

I've seen it said that 9s and even 10s are barely considered high cards by some players, but defensively they will lock most damage flips to -ve, and offensively they can beat a flip to force a cheat.

It makes perfect sense with the low-TN orders available elsewhere, but specifically Lawyer-Lawyer Obeys seem expensive unless you're getting something high-value from it on top of proccing Following Orders.

Its usually a master of range/los/or avoiding concealing honestly.

[Thatguy]

Yeah my thought was to mostly you use it if you want to obey something out of range and use another lawyer as a sort of relay. 

[admiralvorkraft]

Or obey something the first lawyer had already obeyed...

[Filox]

On 1/11/2021 at 1:22 PM, Legislat said:

Yep, totally.

Augmented is best keyword hands down - tons of models with different roles.

Lets count. Master and totem are excluded.

12 models ! lots excellent (Howard, Joss, Medical automaton, Toolkit, Steamfitters, etc) Most decent, few questionable. Excellent crew synergy.

Compare that to guards - 8 models, 2 of them excellent summons and decent hires, everything else is niche/bad. mediocre crew synergy based on Sergeant and Queeg. Pass

Family - 7 models. 1 excellent (Francisco), everything else is overcosted/understatted glass cannons. Very costly and restrictive crew synergy.

Mimic/Elite is alright, but still lacking models. - 7 models. 2 excellent (lawyer, changeling), 2 nice (agent, alan) rest niche/bad. Excellent crew synergy but based on 2-3 models tops.

Journalist - 6 models (really, only 6?). 2 Excellent (Phiona, UReporter), 2 nice (Allison, newsie). Good crew synergy that you can completely live without and hire something else. 

Marshal - 7 models. Mostly alright, but lacking real synergy with themselves and Lady itself. 

Frontier - 9 models. 2 excellent (worm, pathfinder), nice riders and everything else as a filler. They are not that good. They seriously lack in options against some crews. (Jack will wipe the floor with frontier for example). Deploy synergy, thats all.

Witch Hunters - 7 models. 1 excellent SanctionedSC, 1 nice (handlers) and rest are fillers. Thrall Glass rocket almost never works as a hire - too damn squshy for those stones. Stalkers and everything else is meh. Spelleaters are not really that good with the quality of the keyword as it is. Mediocre synergy. Not worth it.

I would say that Agent sucks 70% of the time. I only take it as tech piece against armored crews. The fact that after nerf (which in my opinion was a little to much) he did not get any recompensation. Df 5 on melee henchmen and none Df abilities to keep him say there is sad.

Spelleaters are best model in Sonnia, thou in grand scheme of things they are just okay, it's just says how jadły designed is this keyword.

LJ has only 1 great model, it being Lone Marshal. Jury is okay tech piece against Tara & Dreamer, nothing else. Domador is okay only in keyword. DM's are niche, same as Exe (beside the time you play against Jack Daw or Pandora). DMR is shit. 

Basse has Austringers which are amazing. But yeah, Basse is mostly caring his crew.

 

About Masters overall I would say that Hoff, Nellie, Dashel and Basse are mostly only viable picks in competive. You cannot do badly as Hoff. Nellie is a beast on some scheme pools. Dashel is okay, same as Basse. The rest falls short, at least in current GG. Outside Sonnia, she is just bad. 

[trikk]

10 hours ago, Filox said:

About Masters overall I would say that Hoff, Nellie, Dashel and Basse are mostly only viable picks in competive. You cannot do badly as Hoff. Nellie is a beast on some scheme pools. Dashel is okay, same as Basse. The rest falls short, at least in current GG. Outside Sonnia, she is just bad. 

Strongly disagree 😛

 

[Math Mathonwy]

On 1/11/2021 at 12:04 PM, Scoffer said:

TWIMC: a major tournament in Russia (42 players, 5 rounds) was won by a guild player yesterday. Another guild player finished on 3rd place (just 1 point of diff from the 2nd place). Not a single Dashel was hired by them.

Looks like you are trying to nerf the wrong guy.

Do you know roughly what sorts of lists he was running with LJ?

[Adran]

On 1/19/2021 at 1:32 AM, Filox said:

About Masters overall I would say that Hoff, Nellie, Dashel and Basse are mostly only viable picks in competive. You cannot do badly as Hoff. Nellie is a beast on some scheme pools. Dashel is okay, same as Basse. The rest falls short, at least in current GG. Outside Sonnia, she is just bad. 

It seems the Russian meta disagree with you, since Guild got 1st and 3rd in a 42player 5 round event with 4 Justice and 1 lucius games to win, and 3 Hoffman and 2 Sonnia games for 3rd. (Who only lost to the winner) So in 10 guild games, the only loss was Hoffman to Justice, and 6 of the 8 remaining wins were Masters you don't think are viable picks in a competitive setting.  

So whilst your view may be perfectly correct for you, its obviously not universally held. 

[trikk]

1 hour ago, Math Mathonwy said:

Do you know roughly what sorts of lists he was running with LJ?

LJ+LLC, Judge, Jury+LLC, 2 domadores, Lone Marshal

[Maniacal_cackle]

4 hours ago, Adran said:

It seems the Russian meta disagree with you, since Guild got 1st and 3rd in a 42player 5 round event with 4 Justice and 1 lucius games to win, and 3 Hoffman and 2 Sonnia games for 3rd. (Who only lost to the winner) So in 10 guild games, the only loss was Hoffman to Justice, and 6 of the 8 remaining wins were Masters you don't think are viable picks in a competitive setting.  

So whilst your view may be perfectly correct for you, its obviously not universally held. 

Another thing worth noting is that once a group decides a certain master is underpowered, it can be a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy where no one tries to break the crew.

So nice to see the Russian meta providing another viewpoint!

[Math Mathonwy]

14 hours ago, trikk said:

LJ+LLC, Judge, Jury+LLC, 2 domadores, Lone Marshal

Very interesting! That doesn't look all that "unfair" on the face of it! Heck - out of the stuff talked about in this thread, the only thing there is the LLC. No Pale, no Lawyer, no Phiona, for example. And certainly no Executioner   

So either I'm missing something or alternatively he won through superior skill

[Irritated Walrus]

I've played since the beginning of 2e and this is the first time that Guild has felt on par with other factions. Do we have some masters that are turds and harder to use? Sure, but so do other factions. Do we have some masters that really shine? Sure, but so do other factions. 

[Antipodean]

Also been playing since the start of M2E. By the end of the last edition there were a significant number of match ups it wasn't even worth setting up and that was killing enthusiasm for me at the time.

Certainly the last 12 months in Guild I've actually been able to compete while using Guild masters compared to previous times.

Hoffman and Dashel are my current go to's (not playing new stuff until it comes to the app).

 

[Irritated Walrus]

On 11/4/2021 at 6:43 PM, Antipodean said:

Also been playing since the start of M2E. By the end of the last edition there were a significant number of match ups it wasn't even worth setting up and that was killing enthusiasm for me at the time.

Certainly the last 12 months in Guild I've actually been able to compete while using Guild masters compared to previous times.

Hoffman and Dashel are my current go to's (not playing new stuff until it comes to the app).

 

Glad to hear it. While Daschel is one of my takes, I really feel like Hoff, Justice, and Lucius are in a really good spot. I've won a bit with Perdita and Sonnia as well. Played Nellie a bit and won a game, but she's not my favorite. Need to use Frontier more, but until recently I thought their keyword was a little thin. 

[Yore Huckleberry]

On 11/9/2021 at 11:35 AM, Irritated Walrus said:

Glad to hear it. While Daschel is one of my takes, I really feel like Hoff, Justice, and Lucius are in a really good spot. I've won a bit with Perdita and Sonnia as well. Played Nellie a bit and won a game, but she's not my favorite. Need to use Frontier more, but until recently I thought their keyword was a little thin. 

I think Nellie's at a really interesting point, but she could use another strong debuffer in faction to help her lock folks down. Being able to double up slow and distracted onto a bubble crew is really strong. The fact that you can pile focus up with newsies, the totem, or false witnesses is pretty good, too. Lot of efficiency, and some forgiveness if her own distracted winds up piled a bit too high on friendlies.

[Antipodean]

I've been using Heartsbane lately in various crews as a debuffer. Stagger, Slow, Stun and potential for card discard is pretty decent on her.