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Kyle

M3E OPEN BETA!

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It would be great if folks that were in the beta could keep their opinions on what they feel is wrong with the rules or specific models in check for a bit until everyone that wasn't in the beta has had a chance to look at M3E and form their own initial opinions. 

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Umm if Wyrd wanted that they should have said so and not lifted the NDAs. They never lifted any of them before, even once the stuff tested released. I’m exremly positive on Wyrd for taking this step.

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1 minute ago, athalos_gallant said:

It will be great to get some public games in again! I've been quite looking forward to the open Beta of Malifaux!

You weren’t playing M2E as the public face of Malifaux? 😢 (I’m glad to not have to mix rules sets any more. It was kind of a headache to remember to take the elevated terrain off the table for M2E rules.)

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15 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

Umm if Wyrd wanted that they should have said so and not lifted the NDAs. They never lifted any of them before, even once the stuff tested released. I’m exremly positive on Wyrd for taking this step.

You're right. Wyrd's intention was probably for everyone that has been grinding the same few axes over on the beta forums for the past few months to start filling the general forums with stuff that is going to prejudice players that haven't even seen the M3E rules or  models against certain mechanics and models. 

I don't know what I was thinking. Having a bunch of fresh players start off with opinions they picked up on the forum is probably way more useful than giving them a few days to actually form an opinion of their own. Players from the the closed beta should feel free to piss and moan about whatever it was that is ruining M3E for them starting today instead of  waiting until January 19th or 20th to start in on it. 

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54 minutes ago, Kyle said:

(a great spot) and bring it up one more level (to a fantastic spot).

After near 4 month of hard testing on M3e... it's the coolest words i read since long time !

Thank's Wyrd

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Honestly I am surprised about an Open Beta. I'm glad, don't get me wrong, but surprised. An open beta of this size is sure to have a large noise to signal ratio. I applaud Wyrd for taking it on and I do think it will help make the game as good as it can be.

There is a lot of good stuff in 3rd Ed and there are just a few more wrinkles to iron out to make it great. It will be nice to be able to play more openly now as well. 

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38 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

You're right. Wyrd's intention was probably for everyone that has been grinding the same few axes over on the beta forums for the past few months to start filling the general forums with stuff that is going to prejudice players that haven't even seen the M3E rules or  models against certain mechanics and models. 

I don't know what I was thinking. Having a bunch of fresh players start off with opinions they picked up on the forum is probably way more useful than giving them a few days to actually form an opinion of their own. Players from the the closed beta should feel free to piss and moan about whatever it was that is ruining M3E for them starting today instead of  waiting until January 19th or 20th to start in on it. 

If you’re concerned that people’s opinions can be swayed that easily you must not have confidence in the new system. Couldn’t the reverse also be argued as well, that those who are positive on the new system could try to get players to overlook glaring flaws that will hurt the viability of the game long term because they personally were happy with where it was? 

Wyrd has to want both opinions out there or they could have done what they did before and just kept the NDA in force after the open went live. They didn’t and whatever the outcome for my enjoyment of the game personally I think that is a very good decision. 

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Any chance for a download for the current rule set? Or should I pester people who were bound by the NDA until just now?

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50 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

If you’re concerned that people’s opinions can be swayed that easily you must not have confidence in the new system. Couldn’t the reverse also be argued as well, that those who are positive on the new system could try to get players to overlook glaring flaws that will hurt the viability of the game long term because they personally were happy with where it was? 

Wyrd has to want both opinions out there or they could have done what they did before and just kept the NDA in force after the open went live. They didn’t and whatever the outcome for my enjoyment of the game personally I think that is a very good decision. 

I like the new system but I've also been around games and their related forums long enough to know that when players read that "Mechanic X is overpowered" or "Master Y is bad" before they have had a chance to form their own opinions backed by their own experiences, it becomes a fact that needs to be dispelled. I don't see how not crapping on a new beta player's chance to have a fresh look at M3E is anything but a good thing.

People that don't have months of closed beta baggage should see everything with a different perspective than those of us that do. Why you'd want to poison that by having closed beta players posting their multi page rants on what they think is wrong with a mechanic, module, or rule more than a week before players that weren't in the closed beta have a chance to even read the rules is beyond me. 

Let open beta players have their chance see the new stuff and explore it without having to bring in other peoples' baggage.  Too much specific positive feedback is just as bad. If the goal is to catch as much as possible before M3E is released, fresh eyes are better.

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1 hour ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

If you’re concerned that people’s opinions can be swayed that easily you must not have confidence in the new system.

Have you never seen a gaming forum before? People bandwagon calling stuff OP/UP all the time regardless of how strong it actually is.

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Yes I have and were you swayed? My point is that no discussion could take place if what you are saying is true. Any position from anyone could sway someone else’s opinion. I have more faith in people who actually want to do testing that they’ll actually do what they want instead of just letting an Internet forum brainwash them. 

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Just now, Fetid Strumpet said:

And again if Wyrd wanted that there was a simple way they could have shown they agreed with you, by enforcing the NDA instead of releasing it.


Kyle didn't echo what I wrote exactly but it does seem like Wyrd's intent wasn't to have closed beta testers spend the next 9 days trying indoctrinate the pool of open beta players into their way of thinking. 

Even if Wyrd doesn't care one way or there other, I think not getting into deep discussions about the contents of the beta until people have had a chance to see it for themselves is just the considerate thing to do,



 

 

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2 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

Yes I have and were you swayed? My point is that no discussion could take place if what you are saying is true. Any position from anyone could sway someone else’s opinion. I have more faith in people who actually want to do testing that they’ll actually do what they want instead of just letting an Internet forum brainwash them. 

Most of the people that will be in the open beta don't want to test. They just want to play M3E. That was true of a decent number of folks that participated in the closed beta. 

There's a ton of "group think" and "common knowledge" on game forums. I'd like to think that I'm too smart for that but I know I fall victim to it just like everyone else.

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Hopefully this just results in a "launch" where people have a more critical eye towards certain things than if it was a full launch. Echo chambers are for sure a thing but i think there's also something to be said for the advantage of many voices working together.

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28 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

Yes I have and were you swayed? My point is that no discussion could take place if what you are saying is true. Any position from anyone could sway someone else’s opinion. I have more faith in people who actually want to do testing that they’ll actually do what they want instead of just letting an Internet forum brainwash them. 

No, all that's being asked is some discretion until people that weren't in the closed beta can at least look at it themselves.

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On the other hand, sharing a lot of the information gained through the closed Beta can accelerate the process in what seems to be an already tight window of time.

Saying "Try using the concentrate action or bringing models with puncture" when someone says "The new incorporeal is OP" can help the new players play the system instead of fighting against it. 
Explaining that you can charge without a target, on its own, is something that's going to solve a lot of future head scratching, especially against Molly. 
It's a game that takes 3+ hours to play, and it takes 2 people to play. Considering travel, set-up, and arranging, it costs people a chunk of their free time to test the game. Sure, you can have fun, although it's not as entertaining as just enjoying the game. Taking notes and writing battle reports adds more time investment to the playtesting process. 
I think using already acquired knowledge as a catalyst can save time and frustration to a lot of people.

 

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12 minutes ago, Saduhem said:

On the other hand, sharing a lot of the information gained through the closed Beta can accelerate the process in what seems to be an already tight window of time.

Saying "Try using the concentrate action or bringing models with puncture" when someone says "The new incorporeal is OP" can help the new players play the system instead of fighting against it. 
It's a game that takes 3+ hours to play, and it takes 2 people to play the game. I think using already acquired knowledge as a catalyst can save time and frustration to a lot of people.

 

That’s true. It’s also not at all what I was talking about. In your example you are a player with experience reacting to something new player has encountered or discovered.

That’s not the same as someone that has been in the closed beta making posts with their personal “This is what needs to be fixed” lists on AWP or theses forums a week before open beta players even get a chance to look through the content. 

I’m not asking closed beta players to sit back and stay silent on the open beta forums. I’d just like open beta players to be allowed a chance to look at the content with a mostly open mind.

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2 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

That’s true. It’s also not at all what I was talking about. In your example you are a player with experience reacting to something new player has encountered or discovered.

That’s not the same as someone that has been in the closed beta making posts with their personal “This is what needs to be fixed” lists on AWP or theses forums before open beta players even get a chance to look through the content. 

I’m not asking closed beta players to sit back and stay silent on the open beta forums just that open beta players should be allowed a chance to look at the content with a mostly open mind.

I get it. 
I don't think that @Fetid Strumpet meant that the closed Beta players should say "Nerf Master X" as their introduction to the system.
But I, personally, have logged over 20 games and I would like to be able to say "Hey guys, this is a situation that is making the game less enjoyable for me. Can we try it out?" or "No matter what I do, these models don't seem to be worth their cost when I play them. Please let me know if you have better luck", or "I personally miss idiosyncratic conditions on fewer models. Now we have fewer conditions on a lot more models. Do you think it speeds up the game this way?". 

I'd like a pleasant system that can enthrall as many players as possible without losing the Malifaux essence. If part of the community is really hating something, I think that pointing a batch of new testers towards it can help understand what part of it is creating the issue.

I'm probably too naive, but I like to believe that players would be able to dismiss unreasonable complaints and unjustified requests for "nerfs" after experiencing the system. I also think that the more people complain about things (justified or not) the more attention is given to them, leading to the dismissals of myths or the fixing of true issues. 

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31 minutes ago, Saduhem said:

I get it. 
I don't think that @Fetid Strumpet meant that the closed Beta players should say "Nerf Master X" as their introduction to the system.
But I, personally, have logged over 20 games and I would like to be able to say "Hey guys, this is a situation that is making the game less enjoyable for me. Can we try it out?" or "No matter what I do, these models don't seem to be worth their cost when I play them. Please let me know if you have better luck", or "I personally miss idiosyncratic conditions on fewer models. Now we have fewer conditions on a lot more models. Do you think it speeds up the game this way?". 

I'd like a pleasant system that can enthrall as many players as possible without losing the Malifaux essence. If part of the community is really hating something, I think that pointing a batch of new testers towards it can help understand what part of it is creating the issue.

I'm probably too naive, but I like to believe that players would be able to dismiss unreasonable complaints and unjustified requests for "nerfs" after experiencing the system. I also think that the more people complain about things (justified or not) the more attention is given to them, leading to the dismissals of myths or the fixing of true issues. 

I think that those are legit conversations that should happen over on the open beta forums once the new folks have had a chance to actually be part of the discussion and not just have our opinions of M3E coloring their initial experiences.

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1 minute ago, WWHSD said:

I think that those are legit conversations that should happen over on the open beta forums once the new folks have had a chance to actually be part of the discussion and not just have our opinions of M3E coloring their initial experiences.

Out of curiosity do you think there are particular things that people in the current beta are saying are OP?  I'm just asking as someone who was unable to devote as much time as they would have liked on keeping track of those conversations.

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I like they are lifting the beta.  It allows the beta testers in the discussion.  When someone states something would work better that was already tested in the beta, they can discuss why it didn’t work.  

I welcome it.  

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