What Are The Easiest And Hardest Schemes To Achieve

[Justin]

...and why.

 

Other than that, title pretty much says it all. Curious on your thoughts. 

[Wise Guy Sam]

I'll be honest, I've found them all pretty challenging.

Why: I'm not very good.

[LordZombie]

That is a loaded gun type of question. There will be so many answers, and long drawn out explanations it will take days to read. I will keep it short and sweet. 

 

Easiest- Frame for Murder. Very few masters going to pass up the chance to kill off a minion you bait them with. 

 

Hardest- Line in the Sand/ Distract. Both are equally hard to pull off. If it is not a problem trying to line up on the centerline and not have you opponent know right off the bat what you are doing and still pull it off, it is just getting to the center line with enough wounds left to drop the scheme. Distract is just as bad as you need to put on the condition and leave the model alive, which in turn will just wreck your face. 

 

Honestly, I have always been disappoint with all the schemes. I was really looking forward to the hidden bluffing style of schemes that were first talked about. With the way they are now, there is little reason to hide them and barely half use scheme markers. So if there is one that uses scheme markers with three others that don't, it is pretty easy to figure out which you took. That is my take on schemes. 

[rancor709]

Easiest Scheme- Protect Territory- Move typically a single movement or 2 away from your deployment and then your in business. As you grow you find that anywhere on the board beyond 6" from your zone achieves this so move forward at some point drop markers stand by markers make points.

 

Hardest-Sping the Trap it requires a specific model to get in range of several markers to earn full points. The amount of specific setup for this scheme makes it to me the hardest to accomplish consistently.

[Lancer]

Easiest Bodyguard and Protect Territory.

 

 

Hardest Assassinate.

[JoeJones]

I generally find Assassinate to be fairly simple, but I'm a long-time Warmahordes player, so caster kill is ingrained in my play style.

Hardest for me would probably be Entourage, since I tend to play less mobile masters.

[Pallas4]

with the dreamer.... or every invocator. Frame for murderer.

 

you sent a good mini in the middle of all ennemy trouppers. For example Coppelius.

 

the ennemy must kill it or a lot of thoses mini will die.

 

 

most hardest... hum don't really know. mayebe take prisonner? Entourage?

[tomjoad]

So, I think the #1 easiest scheme is Power Ritual. Every time I've seen it come up, both players have picked it and both have got full points for it. I also think Distract and Cursed Object are reasonably ready to get 3 points for. Generally, it seems as though Spring the Trap is hardest.

Otherwise, I think it's super dependant on the master/crew/player style. With my main master, Shenlong, I find any marker-based scheme to be fairly simple (ALITS, Plant Explosives, even Spring the Trap can be easy). Assassinate, Murder Protégé, and Make Them Suffer can be difficult.

Also, this is hard to evaluate because, although I've played a ton of games in this past year, I have never had Entourage come up, Take Prisoner only once, and since others only a very few times.

Edit: I didn't answer the "why?" part at all, so...

Power Ritual just requires such a tiny investment that 3 points with it is trivial. The same could be said for Cursed Object, I think, and to a lesser degree Distract and Protect Territory. Spring the Trap, because masters often activate at our near the end of a turn can be very hard for some crews to pull off. Shenlong can, thanks to Wandering River Style, but few models can move markers around like that.

The Wandering River Style is a big part of why ALITS et al are so easy for Shenlong. The other thing that makes them simple is Ten Thunders Brothers. My love for them has been well documented, but they make that kind of scheme incredibly difficult for opposing players to disrupt.

I have such a hard time with Assassinate and other killy schemes because, well, I rarely take any models that can kill an opposing model that doesn't want to be killed. Maybe Izamu or the Lone Swordsman or a Katanaka Sniper, but just relying on that one guy to kill a master or other expensive model is unlikely to succeed. Taking a guy like that DOES make it possible to bluff one of those schemes, though, and that can be very valuable to helping me accomplish what I actually want to do.

[Mikey_C]

If cursed object is in the pool I find it very difficult to pass up, and rarely do I not get 3 points from it (though usually my opponent does as well). I think it's easy because all you have to do is interact with a model that has already activated, and you can even miss it one turn and still get 3 vp .

 

I generally avoid Spring the trap because I find you are relying on the enemy master acting early and your models being unengaged to pull it off for full points. I also think it's very easy for the opponent to spot and difficult to fake as another scheme. 

[valhallan42nd]

It depends on the master. My McMourning finds Plant Explosives nearly trivial to do. My ressers like Distract and Line in the Sand (Necropunks and Crooligans). Entourage and Breakthrough tend to be easy with McM or Tara. Pro territory tends to be easy. 

I hate Bodyguard due to time limits, and Spring the Trap and outflank are not schemes that I like to take. 

[tomjoad]

Oh, I forgot about Outflank. I've never chosen it, but it reads as being too difficult to be worth choosing with most crews.

[EntrepeNinja]

Easy: Protect Territory, or (Depending on crew) Plant Explosives.

Prot is such an auto include for so many that I've started including some anti scheme tech to try and thwart. Given some activation control, and some sort of scheme generation tech, this can get pretty silly. Be it luring a bunch of things to get them within range of one marker, or pitching a bunch of markers everywhere, or placing one somewhere that is just ideal... There was a while where I would make it challenging by forcing myself to go for 3 points scored on turn one.

 

Hard-

Outflank. So many strats/schemes have to deal with being a specific place, and usually that's Near your oppoenents deployment zone, or in the center, or basically far away from the table edge. And if you want full points you have to announce. And if you announce, it only takes one model saved to thwart it. I think I've taken it once.

 

Honorable Mention:

Take Prisoner- I think this one is potentially very hard, but it's such a wild card. It's like the spanish inquisition.

 

ENinja

[Paradigm]

As primarily a Misaki player, I am also very partial to Frame for Murder. I usually just put it on her, and my opponent has no choice but to kill her. One thing to be wary of regarding this scheme is that it is actually possible to have the model die without giving you a single VP if the opponent is clever enough to use poison or burning to finish it off. The core rules state that models killed by burning/poison do not count as being killed by either player, while Frame for Murder states that it has to be and enemy that kills the model for it to award points.

 

There are a few tricks that can make several schemes really easy to complete. Protect Territory can be completed by just about any single model in one turn by walking to the required distance the first turn, putting down a scheme marker and walking 4" away from it the second turn and then placing a second marker precisely 4" away from the first and finally walking to the spot right between them. You will then have two markers withing 2" of a friendly model, and if you revealed the scheme that gives you 3 VP. Models with Wk 6, Pounce or other special rules can do this even easier.

 

Plant Evidence is also really easy on some boards. If two pieces of terrain are placed close together, you can place a single scheme marker that is in base contact with both pieces of terrain. Since this scheme awards VP for each piece of terrain in base contact with a friendly scheme marker, it is possible to get 3VP from this scheme with a single scheme marker, if it has been revealed.

 

Vendetta is another scheme that becomes ridiculously easy in some situations. The key to this scheme is picking a model in your crew with the ability to reliably attack a chosen enemy. This model should preferably be as cheap as possible, so you have many possible enemy models to mark for the scheme. I personally love picking this scheme with Katanaka Snipers. Their range is amazing, and a potential severe damage of 6 is enough to finish many models. I typically ignore the first two scoring conditions on Vendetta, and instead focus on the 3VP you get from having your model deal the killing blow to the chosen enemy. With this setup it's entirely possible to score 3VP from this scheme on round 1 or 2.

 

The list of nifty tricks can be made alot longer, but I'll settle with this for now

[Dirial]

Distract is very easy with all crews who have activation control, and very hard with all who do not. Protect Territory, Power Ritual and Frame for Murder nearly always score at least some points.

[AoS]

Much of the schemes are more or less dificult depending of the crew you have in front and the rest of the pool and strategy.

And the oponent is important too. A new player see really easy to do protect territory, but in fact is easier to Avoid than others.

To me, and in general, Assasinate can be difficult, and in some cases imposible to get the 3VP. With BodyGuard, the problem is that in a tournament you never know if you will play the 5th turn, so score 3VP is a mistery.

If you have a good oponent, Take prisioner, frame for murder and outflank are so hard to score 3VP.

The easiest schemes to me against a good oponent are: power ritual, breakthrough, plant explosives and plant evidences.

[Ludvig]

This depends so much on the crews and board but I will give it a try. I will say I usually play Guild, a lot of Sonnia, McCabe and Lucius. Of these I favour certain schemes for certain masters and I find I always do better with McCabe or Sonnia so this might influence why I find some schemes easier or harder. In my local play group we also tend to gravitate towards a big scrap near the center with lots of casualties and a lot of the time really cheap scheme runners are going about their business more or less unopposed.

Hard ones to get full VP for:

Spring the trap because it's usually obvious and not that hard to avoid. I often face summoners (Nico, Ramos, Somer) who hang back surrounded by tons of their own models. Might be easier if you face masters that actually want to cuddle with you.

Frame for murder often gets you points but very often not the full 3 since the enemy is using minions/enforcers and very rarely attacking with their master. Against some masters and especially some players it's a cakewalk.

Distract rarely gets me full points because my entire crew is tabled turn 3 since I try to Keep my enemy alive and have a crew with lots of cheap killable models and my opponent rips through my crew. (This might be my own fault, it is also a scheme I have almost only tried doing with Lucius and I can't seem to get him to work).

Outflank is super hard since you usually try to do it with cheap models that are easily killed, there is rarely good terrain to cover the table edge and the enemy can deny points by just sauntering over late game no matter if you declared or not since it will be obvious. It also conflicts with a lot of strategies.

Really easy schemes:

Protect territory: You use significant 3ss models to scheme and table your opponent with big hitters so they can't contest. Just place the markers where your sturdy models are so you don't rely on the flimsy schemers to survive the game if you are worried about dying. It's a little harder if you enemy has lots of lures but a lot of the time you can find a hiding spot for a 30mm base and try to keep that are cleared of enemies so a single 3ss model can get you full 3vp.

Plant evidence: Put down a bucketload of scheme markers on terrain with your cheap models and use big models to hunt the enemy so they can't remove them.

Power ritual: Usually easy to get full points even when you are obvious about it (which you often are).

[Bengt]

Protect territory is easy. One model can be within 2" of three markers placed in a triangle and you can do it almost anywhere on the board. It can be prevented but as it's spatially very flexible the onus will be on the opponent.

 

Outflank is... I've never tried this, it seems like a hassle and you have to reveal it to get full points.

 

Some schemes vary a lot in difficulty depending on what models you have available and/or what your opponent is fielding. Generally I think this is a good thing, but for some schemes the variance is too large. E.g. Deliver a Message is trivial for some models, add to this the DaM is a one turn, locked in scheme. Some masters (generally melee beaters) are also very susceptible to it if they play to their strengths, regardless of what the opponent has fielded.

[Dogmantra]

Deliver a message is almost a guaranteed three points if you take a pigapult, but your messenger will probably die.

[Psientologist]

Easiest?

 

I think easiest very much depends on your crew choice, even your master.

For example A Line in the Sand may take a lot of time a resources for the average crew but Colette thanks to Practiced Production and the like can do it while getting on with the rest of the game.

 

Other schemes like Deliver a Message go from reasonably easy to super easy with stuff like Lucas (and Luna) reactivating dogs and the like.

 

In general I would say Breakthrough may be the simplest for most crews. It does become a little more difficult when playing Corner deployment but overall just placing two markers is usually not too much of a task and it tends to (not always) be easier than protect territory because you don't even need models around to score at the end.

 

Power Ritual and Plant Evidence are also fairly simple for the same reasons.

 

Hardest?

 

Time for a little rant about OUTFLANK

 

Before anyone thinks I'm saying it is impossible, I am not, but overall it's just a bit rubbish.

I will elaborate:

 

Placement of your models is far too specific.

3" is not a very big space, in general most of the schemes use 6" as the gap to be within or away from, on top of that the thing that makes it just too specific is the being on the centreline.

 

3" is already small enough and this is just extra restrictive.

In the scenario where you are trying to get the full 3VP you having two models positioned in such specific places it's a little ridiculous.

 

Let's imagine you just want 1 or 2VP, the positioning is so specific that you may as well have declared it as you are completely telegraphing what your plan is.

I know that Malifaux does use schemes as a bluffing mechanic but this is like bluffing you have a pair aces with the other two on the river.

 

Now if where you had to be was all, this scheme is already difficult enough but I can see an argument of how it's nice to drag your opponent out of position to come kill you.

This would at least possibly create a situation where your opponent trades down, they use their generic beat stick to come finish your lowly minion in a single turn.

Or, the situation of having a super tough resilient model comes into play and pays off. This would be also a little interesting as typically the "tar pits" aren't too fast.

 

However, that is not it, you cannot get the scheme by simply being engaged.

This makes telegraphing it ridiculous as one cheap activation can zip up at the end and engage your model scoring in it's already specific position.

 

Overall, I ignore Outflank when I play now, I take note my opponent may have it but that scheme pool is just a choice of 4 for me.

 

I also tend to not have it at events I plan.

Random game length can potentially foil the plan of a last second engagement but tournaments tend to end on turn 5, plus even with random the chances typically are the game ends then.

 

SIDENOTE

I had written most of this already, probably a lot clearer but typically my laptop decided to restart and I had saved this anywhere. Boo!

 

 

 

 

[Hagisman]

As Guild the easiest scheme for me is Plant Explosives. I almost always have models with alternative ways to place markers(e.g. Finish the job).

Hardest schemes for me are always the ones that rely on the opponent. For example, I declared Murder Protege on Teddy and my opponent proceeded to keep him always out of reach. Or Frame for Murder, my opponent realizes who it is and buries him for the rest of the game.

[Joel]

If you are looking to get all 3 points from a scheme, rather than just score 1 or 2, then several schemes are rather tricky. I'll look at those first.

Many are those you have to announce in order to get that 3rd VP. Reason being, your opponent knows what you are trying to do and can play to stop you.

Deliver a message

Outflank

Line in the sand

All come under this banner, and line in the sand has the additional disadvantage of requiring at least 4AP spending in a particular board area to achieve.

Other are very, very easy. Usually because they are difficult to prevent or take very few AP to accomplish. My list of these are:

Protect territory

Plant explosives (can be done with one AP)

Take prisoner - just need to move near something

Murder protege - doesn't require a specific model to do the killing, harder to hide target very often due to its nature and lack of a 3rd AP.

[Inquisitor Wall]

Protect territory is not only the easiest for most masters but also the most boring/least interactive between players. It rewards players for not moving after the first turn. It also seems to be the most commonly taken scheme when it comes up.

Outflank tends to be the most difficult because it effectively is taking two models out of the game.

[asrian]

Hardest - Outflank, as Psientologist stated, is just too much of a pain for the 3vp vs other schemes. If it were at least like Protect Territory in that the enemy had to outnumber you to deny, and the "flank" areas were a bit larger I could see it. As is...it's never an option to me. 

 

While not a "hard" one, a pain for time limits for me is Bodyguard. Personally I'd prefer if this started scoring on Turn 3. It would mean that even in drawn out tournament games there is at least hope of scoring 2 points by turn 3, or all 3 by turn 4 if your target is above half wounds. Or full points turn 5 if alive (but the opponent has now had 2 full turns to make said target a priority which means you actually ARE trying to guard like the scheme name suggests).

 

All other schemes I find fall into the "Easy" category, just depending on what I take in my crew.

[Math Mathonwy]

Outflank is by far the hardest, I think. Never take it.

Protect Territory is the easiest.

Plant Explosives, Power Ritual, and Deliver a Message can be silly easy for the right crew.

The rest are generally fine.

[AoS]

I don't see protect territoy as the easiest scheme at all. There are so many ways to avoid the enemy protect territory. Killing the models, moving them, put more models around, removing scheme Markers...

Do you really think is the easiest?