We have a summoning master!

[trikk]

Beaters on Howard/Justice/KJ/Viks can wipe her out in one turn. If you`re suddenly dropped to 8 Wds  from 2 charges you might die unexpectedly.

 

I forgot Tengu but it still means you have 8/9/10/13 summons available and you can`t  increase flicker on everything.

 

 

[mythicFOX]

The list of things the Viks can reliably kill in one turn is fairly long.  I'm not sure that really sells me on it being a weakness.

 

[Lucidicide]

4 minutes ago, mythicFOX said:

The list of things the Viks can reliably kill in one turn is fairly long.  I'm not sure that really sells me on it being a weakness.

 

Is there something not on that list?

[Da Git]

That's actually a very good question about From The Maw, They Come, is it Flicker +1 plus all Corpse Counters (max+3) so +4, of is it +3 combined.  I can read it both ways.

Her summons to me though kinda look like missiles, bring them in, fling them at an enemy, kill/hold up/(in the Obsidian Oni's case)blow up next to an enemy & then if they don't kill you, you get a scheme marker (with upgrade) at the end of the turn to eat next turn.  They also have a decent range.  Ignoring Tengu because they're not exactly combat monsters... You can drop an Obsidian Oni for a 10M within 4", it has a charge of 6", Rg 2" for a threat range of 12"+40mm base.  That's pretty decent.  We also have no idea what the threat ranges of Ohaguro (can't be summoned) & the Yokai are.  So she can hang back a bit if you're willing to lose the piece at the end of the turn (again for a scheme marker, with upgrade!).  Another good option could be to summon Obsidians within 6" where you want a scheme marker, use their Flames From the Heavens attack & let them go "poof" at the end of the turn.

She does look very similar to Kirai in that she's a toolbox Master.  She does have a lot of comparisons

• Both summon with potentially minimal resources if you set up the crew for it.  Take an Obsidian or two for scrap & you should be laughing.
• Both can move models Swirling spirits & Reaching Tendrils.  However, both are quite different in effect and have their own pro's and con's.
• Both have personal placement trick upgrades in A Heavenly Design Vs Into the Aether). Again, I'm going to assume these are different in their actual effect.
• Both have a small bubble buff.

However, while similar, they are also very different so far.  I really love playing Kirai & it's really hard to resist buying the box at Gencon & not waiting till Black Friday (where they'll hopefully also be for pre-release!)

So while yes, so far she looks really good, I don't think the sky is falling just yet!

I can also see myself taking Servant of 5 Dragons with her... I hate Wp 5!

[trikk]

41 minutes ago, Aaron said:

Is there something not on that list?

Dreamer, Kirai, Squeel Gremlins, Marcus, Guild masters with Badge of Office etc...

 

I"m also glad that out of that list you picked up Viks and skipped the rest but I seriously think that you might lose her faster than you think

 

I do think shes a great model and very thematic.

[wizuriel]

Personally I'm kind of weary on her summoning, but I tend to see most summoners already on the high end of the power curve. I personally hope that the game starts to introduce some anti summoning models.

 

still she looks amazing and I think finally going pull me into getting a 10 thunders master

 

[Tokapondora]

Honestly, I'm not blown away by her card. With the summoning and the tn12's on everything she seems incredibly card intensive, the actions are nice but nothing that really wows you, save more maybe those tendrils, and for a master that needs to be somewhere near the action she's really made of tissue paper. And while summoning is one of those things that can amp a master up to 11, I feel hers is a bit gimmicky and not even close to being up there with the likes of the Dreamer, Kirai or Nicodem, all of which have some far nicer tricks besides their summons and a larger/more diverse summoning pool to boot.

It feels a bit like they've been too wary around the stigma around summoners. I think she's gonna be a fairly middle-of-the-road-y TT master and that's fine, though I do hope they expand her summoning toolkit a bit or at least let her upgrades give some more flavour and "big" abilities to give her viable playstyle options, rather than a range of abilities designed to "make up" for her summoning's gimmick.

[OneLittleThunder]

Remember that we don't know (or rather I don't know; play testers might, but they are under NDA) whether there are any more new Oni in book 4, which night significantly expand Asami's options. 

And while Lady J looks like a significant problem, I feel like Asami will be a lot of fun to take against Nicodem...

[D_acolyte]

I would not be surprised if we see another 3-4 models in the book but I would do not  think we would see a more then 1 other oni minion because they want to spread the love. Though they may double dip into another faction a bit like with the 10 thunder puppet. Come on one 10 thunder and another resur only ancestor each, fingers crossed. Yes that is a far flung wish.

[thebarbalag]

There's a lot to love on her card beyond the summoning. As with most summoners, I suggest looking at summoning as the gravy, rather than the meat. Look at the positioning power of Reaching Tendrils and its trigger. Combine her positioning power with An Insatiable Hunger, to both keep her alive and wreck enemy plans, "Sorry, Collette, your nearby markers are all my wounds, now, no Disappearing Act for you!" And then, an Oni's Strength...good lord that ability is choice: Focus +2 on a 6 of anything. Ama No Zako with a 1 AP charge and Focus +2, or a Jorogumo...geesh...and we don't even know what Ohaguro Bettari does yet, but the tease says she's a Melee combatant. Plus Rush of Magic, which, as a Lilith player I know is worth its weight in face cards. Df 7 and healing means she can probably sit wherever she wants to in relative safety, though I'd probably bring the Shadow Effigy for a little defensive padding. And, she can give herself An Oni's Strength for 1 AP and then bite something for a very likely damage spread of, quoting someone on facebook, "who cares/4/6."

[Nukemouse]

She charges without line of sight and can negate defensive triggers according to the masters page. I am sad to see flicker is sacrificed, otherwise Obsidian Oni could make great bombs!

She will be one of my gateways into Thunders and i like her quite a bit. Feigned Weakness will make her very good for scheme markers and other schemes that are revealed at the end of the game.

[D_acolyte]

36 minutes ago, Nukemouse said:

She charges without line of sight and can negate defensive triggers according to the masters page. I am sad to see flicker is sacrificed, otherwise Obsidian Oni could make great bombs!

 

That is talking about her henchmen.

[Nukemouse]

2 minutes ago, D_acolyte said:

That is talking about her henchmen.

Yes, the post above me said we don't know what Ohayu does, so i was telling him what she does.

[D_acolyte]

Ok.

So as a support master I feel she is sub par, not to say bad but others are so far so much better but this is without upgrades which sound like they will focus on her summoning. As a summoned summoning from nothing is nice but her list is small; if she had something like a yuki onna, tsuchigumo or kitsune to serve as tool boxes or possible tanks in the case of tsuchigumo then it would be nice and rounded out. As for charging her in to combat that sounds like a last dish effort for her.

And yes I am comparing her to The Dreamer which has both support and the summon list to be one of the top summoners in my mind.

That said, I can not wait to get her on the table.

[Nukemouse]

If Pulled here and there were built in i can imagine she would be pretty good at positioning. Needing a 6+ for every single action except the MI attack feels pretty bad to be honest, since it means you will need to ditch cards from hand or not get your abilities reasonably often and makes her particularly susceptible to black jokers. They could have at least made the 0 automatic.

Obsidian Oni will be able to make scrap markers and with their relatively cheap price compared to Jorogumo (both in stones and cold hard cash) means i think they will be taken quite a lot with Asami. Focus +2 could make some non-oni minions pretty scary as well.

[Kbonn]

This is all nonsense without her upgrades being public, in terms of how good/bad she is.

 

Secondly, Anyone complaining about summoning "without a resource".  TT typically have less card manipulation and she can't do what somer and dreamer can in terms of ensuring suits.   Also, both dreamer and somer can really mitigate the "cost" of summons.   Slophaulers heal the damage done, activating near dreamer heals.  Just stop whining, and think about stuff sometimes before posting.  She is a bit unique, and provides a very different master to TT,  for that we should be happy.

[Justin]

Let's make the tone a bit more friendly here, please.

Accusing people of whining, etc is not conducive to a good discussion. I mean, I wrote her rules, and I don't mind if people don't like them. It happens.

[Manic Mouse]

10 minutes ago, Justin said:

Let's make the tone a bit more friendly here, please.

Accusing people of whining, etc is not conducive to a good discussion. I mean, I wrote her rules, and I don't mind if people don't like them. It happens.

We don't even have access to the rules yet, who knows what the upgrades do!  Well, you do, but discussing masters and how good or not good they are when we are missing about 1/3 of what they are is all good fun, but no point getting bent out of shape by it either way.

[Paddywhack]

I am a bit worried about summoning Jorogumo, who appear to have recently been hitting a lot of tables and proving very, very nasty, but it does require a 13. I'm willing to wait and see before I'm too worried. I do think she will end up being a top tier master though.

Course I said the same thing about Tara and I almost never see her played/talked about. 

[tomjoad]

18 minutes ago, Paddywhack said:

I am a bit worried about summoning Jorogumo, who appear to have recently been hitting a lot of tables and proving very, very nasty, but it does require a 13. I'm willing to wait and see before I'm too worried. I do think she will end up being a top tier master though.

Course I said the same thing about Tara and I almost never see her played/talked about. 

One thing I feel confident in is saying that Asami will be better than Tara...I hope.

[Skitt_Happens]

Wow. I think I said in my first post in this topic that when she first hits the table, people would call OP, but they would soon pick her apart, and refer to her as... well,  P. We appear to have done it ourselves, in theory only, in just 24 hours!

Jorogumo are great: I have been quite a vocal supporter of that opinion. Summon them for 13 will be awesome. They can put out a lot of damage, but at only ml5 there are definitely things that hit harder. There strength is how hard they are to take off the table - so sacrificing after a set number of turns stops them being broken. I bet Justin is breathing a sigh of relief that they changed from what I've heard of the beta: ml6 with 8 severe damage - that would have been broken.

[tomjoad]

1 minute ago, Skitt_Happens said:

Wow. I think I said in my first post in this topic that when she first hits the table, people would call OP, but they would soon pick her apart, and refer to her as... well,  P. We appear to have done it ourselves, in theory only, in just 24 hours!

Jorogumo are great: I have been quite a vocal supporter of that opinion. Summon them for 13 will be awesome. They can put out a lot of damage, but at only ml5 there are definitely things that hit harder. There strength is how hard they are to take off the table - so sacrificing after a set number of turns stops them being broken. I bet Justin is breathing a sigh of relief that they changed from what I've heard of the beta: ml6 with 8 severe damage - that would have been broken.

EVERYTHING was bonkers in the first wave 3 beta file, though. Obsidian Oni and the Shadowy Emissary could both easily get 6+ damage per attack, as I recall. The models were all intentionally overpowered so we would be more likely to try them out and work out how much weaker they needed to be. I SUSPECT that the sort of unreasonably high expectations this put in people's minds is part of why we no longer get open betas.

[Justin]

Just now, tomjoad said:

EVERYTHING was bonkers in the first wave 3 beta file, though. Obsidian Oni and the Shadowy Emissary could both easily get 6+ damage per attack, as I recall. The models were all intentionally overpowered so we would be more likely to try them out and work out how much weaker they needed to be. I SUSPECT that the sort of unreasonably high expectations this put in people's minds is part of why we no longer get open betas.

Yup.

[MrDeathTrout]

16 hours ago, clockworkspide said:

After reading Asami's card, I want a set of translucent plastic Jorogumo or Obsidian Oni, which would perfectly reflect the transitory nature of the models she summons.

Then put a blinking LED in them somewhere to make them flicker.

[tadaka]

I am a bit worried for this book. Wyrd does not have the best track record on balancing books that did not have Open play tests but time will see on this one.