Maxine Agassiz (EVS Keyword) Discussion

[Adran]

17 minutes ago, Gheist said:

Question is if one could Position them so that they engage enemy models to their advantage with 2 inch Range thereby draining  enemy AP to move/disengage before attack, or at least make the opponent alter his Game Plan which would tip the AP advantage more in my favour at that Point

When I play facing this sort of thing I try and hold my important models till late on the first turn, to be able to react to this sort of ploy, and I largely expect you to try this sort of ploy before you activate Kiya and the Emissary, so I ought to have at least 2 activations to react, so my most important models are unlikely to be controlled by your 2" engagement. 

At the very least, you can do one of the tosses from the Tide callers Bonus action, so it ought to be able to walk as well as the 2 tosses, so hopefully will be able to get to the middle with a  charge on Turn 2 itself. 

 

[Pallas4]

 

Little scary. :'D

[Jesy Blue]

Can we not have an older woman and have her not be starkraving mad?!

[fire5tone]

29 minutes ago, Jesy Blue said:

Can we not have an older woman and have her not be starkraving mad?!

No.

[HomelessOne]

Funny how quick the crew takes a violent swerve from how we were describing them earlier in the thread. They blatantly foreshadowed Maxine having Burning Man issues, but “the very next book” certainly wasn’t what I was expecting.

[Da Git]

Poor Mazine... If only The Mummy had been released a century earlier... she coulda had some warning!

[Korrok]

So it's late for me so maybe my mind is playing tricks on me but kiyas technophile aura. It says when a friend would draw a card it may draw any of value 5 or less from its discard that shares its reconfigure suit. Does that mean any one card of value 5 etc or any number of value 5 etc. Pretty sure it's the former rather than the later but I wanted to check to make sure I'm reading it right. 

[NoisyAssassin]

It's any one card, yeah. Definitely don't get multiples. 

[HomelessOne]

Credit to A Wyrd Place.

[HomelessOne]

Any thoughts on listbuilding with Maxine2? I'm feeling she doesn't actually change composition much but style of play, although the fact she now competes with Beebe and Calypso for Tomes does require some decisions.

Alleviated some by Harness the Leylines, yes, but that can be inflexible and you really want those  Mass of Tentacles triggers.

[Korrok]

5 hours ago, HomelessOne said:

Any thoughts on listbuilding with Maxine2? I'm feeling she doesn't actually change composition much but style of play, although the fact she now competes with Beebe and Calypso for Tomes does require some decisions.

Alleviated some by Harness the Leylines, yes, but that can be inflexible and you really want those  Mass of Tentacles triggers.

Beebe basically supplies himself with tomes at least. 

[hydranixx]

On 7/19/2021 at 7:54 PM, Gheist said:

I may be fallen on my Head, but the Tidecaller screams

"throw the Emissary and Kiya into the Enemy Crew Round 1"

at me. Depending on enemy Crew this could buy you two Rounds of free reign over the rest of the Board. Now i am still waiting for my plastic to arrive any day now, but this will be one of the first things i wanna try (if only for the laugh)

This is pretty much the first thing I thought and the first tactic I tried with the crew. Slap Focus, Fast and Shielding on Kiya, fling her and the Emissary up the board, and let them rip shit up. 

It can be good against the right targets. One-shotting Ikiryo felt really, really good.

But, there's a lot of things in the game that a swingy damage track like 2/4/6 is terrible against, even if you have Irreducible. Something with 10+ wounds and Hard to Wound is going to be a slog, and it's made worse by the fact that both the Emissary and the Tidecaller also have the same 2/4/6 damage track and like Adran points out these 3 models are a 28ss investment. So I think this crew gets absolutely boned by crews sporting lots of Hard to Wound.

 

On 9/22/2021 at 7:43 AM, HomelessOne said:

Any thoughts on listbuilding with Maxine2? I'm feeling she doesn't actually change composition much but style of play, although the fact she now competes with Beebe and Calypso for Tomes does require some decisions.

Alleviated some by Harness the Leylines, yes, but that can be inflexible and you really want those  Mass of Tentacles triggers.

The biggest difference that stands out to me in crew selection is that Maxine2 wants to put a little more emphasis on models that can draw you cards, since she doesn't have the Captain of the Superior aura to lean on. However, I think I'd feel a bit safer bringing in squishier EVS models, or at least playing EVS models a little more risky, since Breachburnt gives you on demand healing whenever you're cheating efficiently.

My general crew building mindset with Maxine 1 is to lean aggressively into the Construct-heavy list, since the only healing you have in keyword is reserved for Constructs (Dr Beebe and Machinists). But with Maxine2, and I suppose, Beau, I think I'll feel a bit freer to experiment with the likes of crews centred around Harata (who is amazing, but also has a massive target on his back and is very, very squishy).

[Plaag]

only now heard how is breachburnt interpritated

i always though this is once per discarding-so with calculate or trigger on melee u heal once, but looks so that it will be ruled as for each card matched with reconfigure-this is just insane

im shocked it passed playtest-so many passive healing and u even dont need los and range to any other model when it uses this ability to heal model within 6"

so healing 2-5,6 passive with one action(calculate) and some amount with melee trigger is sooo stupid

thanks playtest team

 

 

[Mycellanious]

8 hours ago, hydranixx said:

This is pretty much the first thing I thought and the first tactic I tried with the crew. Slap Focus, Fast and Shielding on Kiya, fling her and the Emissary up the board, and let them rip shit up. 

It can be good against the right targets. One-shotting Ikiryo felt really, really good.

But, there's a lot of things in the game that a swingy damage track like 2/4/6 is terrible against, even if you have Irreducible. Something with 10+ wounds and Hard to Wound is going to be a slog, and it's made worse by the fact that both the Emissary and the Tidecaller also have the same 2/4/6 damage track and like Adran points out these 3 models are a 28ss investment. So I think this crew gets absolutely boned by crews sporting lots of Hard to Wound.

 

The biggest difference that stands out to me in crew selection is that Maxine2 wants to put a little more emphasis on models that can draw you cards, since she doesn't have the Captain of the Superior aura to lean on. However, I think I'd feel a bit safer bringing in squishier EVS models, or at least playing EVS models a little more risky, since Breachburnt gives you on demand healing whenever you're cheating efficiently.

My general crew building mindset with Maxine 1 is to lean aggressively into the Construct-heavy list, since the only healing you have in keyword is reserved for Constructs (Dr Beebe and Machinists). But with Maxine2, and I suppose, Beau, I think I'll feel a bit freer to experiment with the likes of crews centred around Harata (who is amazing, but also has a massive target on his back and is very, very squishy).

I find that this crew doesn't mind HtW all that much, because they are amazing at rigging the deck. By the time I activate Kiya there are like 15 cards left in my deck, and I put 7 of them them there so the odds of flipping Moderate on a Negative is high. 

[Adran]

8 hours ago, Plaag said:

only now heard how is breachburnt interpritated

i always though this is once per discarding-so with calculate or trigger on melee u heal once, but looks so that it will be ruled as for each card matched with reconfigure-this is just insane

im shocked it passed playtest-so many passive healing and u even dont need los and range to any other model when it uses this ability to heal model within 6"

so healing 2-5,6 passive with one action(calculate) and some amount with melee trigger is sooo stupid

thanks playtest team

 

 

I'm not quite sure what you are saying. I can see 2 ways to read the ability, the first gets a heal for each discard effect regardless of how many cards, the second would be a heal for each card of the reconfigure suit, so probably healing 2 or 3 on a calculate. ( yes you could get 10, but the average would be 2 .5. )

Personally I read it as once per discard effect. 

[Da Git]

5 hours ago, Adran said:

I'm not quite sure what you are saying. I can see 2 ways to read the ability, the first gets a heal for each discard effect regardless of how many cards, the second would be a heal for each card of the reconfigure suit, so probably healing 2 or 3 on a calculate. ( yes you could get 10, but the average would be 2 .5. )

Personally I read it as once per discard effect. 

There's a third and potentially how Plaag's reading it from his rhetoric is that you heal for every single discard from the fate deck no matter the suit as well as any configure card you cheat.

My interpretation is your second one in that you heal for each configure card discarded from the fate deck and cheated.

[solkan]

22 minutes ago, Da Git said:

There's a third and potentially how Plaag's reading it from his rhetoric is that you heal for every single discard from the fate deck no matter the suit as well as any configure card you cheat.

My interpretation is your second one in that you heal for each configure card discarded from the fate deck and cheated.

Reading that sentence as

* discards a card from its Fate Deck

* Cheats Fate with a card matching its Reconfigure ability

should be listed as a capital offense, with the option of being subject to flogging.  Just sayin'.

I'm not entirely clear what the interaction you're all discussing is, but I'd like to point out that there's two classes of "discard" for cards:

Quote

Cards discarded after Flipping, Cheating Fate, or from the Conflict are not considered discarded by the player or any specific model for the purposes of game effects.

Game effects that occur after a model discards a card only occur if a game effect specifies for a player or model to discard a card.

If you flip three cards for a duel, then cheat a card to replace the result, at the end of the duel you have four more cards in your discard pile, but none of those cards trigger "discard a card" effects.

Calculate the Possibilities has you discard ten cards, so that could trigger Breachburnt ten times, if you discard ten .  (Not counting cheating a tome for the duel.)

 

[Da Git]

9 minutes ago, solkan said:

Reading that sentence as

* discards a card from its Fate Deck

* Cheats Fate with a card matching its Reconfigure ability

should be listed as a capital offense, with the option of being subject to flogging.  Just sayin'.

I agree, but that is a possible interpretation. Especially given how confusing English can be, even for native speakers, let alone those poor, unfortunate souls that have to deal with it as a second (or more) language. Given Plaag's rhetoric on claiming it's busted, I thought that might be how it's being read.

 

11 minutes ago, solkan said:

If you flip three cards for a duel, then cheat a card to replace the result, at the end of the duel you have four more cards in your discard pile, but none of those cards trigger "discard a card" effects.

Calculate the Possibilities has you discard ten cards, so that could trigger Breachburnt ten times, if you discard ten .  (Not counting cheating a tome for the duel.)

Agree with this too... Great minds and all that!

[santaclaws01]

1 hour ago, Da Git said:

There's a third and potentially how Plaag's reading it from his rhetoric is that you heal for every single discard from the fate deck no matter the suit as well as any configure card you cheat.

My interpretation is your second one in that you heal for each configure card discarded from the fate deck and cheated.

Plaag was thinking it's 1 heal regardless of any number of cards discarded, and thinks 1 card per tomes discarded is too strong.

[solkan]

34 minutes ago, Da Git said:

I agree, but that is a possible interpretation. Especially given how confusing English can be, even for native speakers, let alone those poor, unfortunate souls that have to deal with it as a second (or more) language. Given Plaag's rhetoric on claiming it's busted, I thought that might be how it's being read.

Fair enough.  That rhetoric's also why I dug out the rules quote about what 'discard a card' means.

But the big thing for me is that the sentence is:

Quote

... discards from its Fate Deck or Cheats Fate with a card matching its Reconfigure Ability...

(without so much as a comma).  Breaking that into "discards from its Fate Deck" and "Cheats Fate with a card matching its Reconfigure Ability" instead of "discards from its Fate Deck a card matching its Reconfigure Ability" and "Cheats Fate with a card matching its Reconfigure Ability" leaves a person with the problem that there's no object to "discard from its Fate Deck" so you can't possibly know what you're supposed to do (Discard what from your Fate Deck?).  But the other interpretation (where the object for both "discards from its Fate Deck" and "Cheats Fate" distributes), gives both phrases the same object and everything matches the defined game mechanics.

 

[solkan]

5 minutes ago, santaclaws01 said:

Plaag was thinking it's 1 heal regardless of any number of cards discarded, and thinks 1 card per tomes discarded is too strong.

It's the old argument about Master AP being allowed to be better than everyone else's, I think.  And, frankly, since "discard ten cards and heal for each tome" is something you can't really manipulate any (unlike a normal healing flip), that's probably why it gets a pass.

Especially since it's Maxine doing the discarding so all that healing is within 6 of her.  🤷‍♀️  

 

[Adran]

1 hour ago, Da Git said:

There's a third and potentially how Plaag's reading it from his rhetoric is that you heal for every single discard from the fate deck no matter the suit as well as any configure card you cheat.

That reading doesn't work according to the rules, because 1 discard effect can contain multiple cards, so if an effect discards 10 cards, it's 1 discard from the fate deck, and  so would be 1 heal. 

I've not been through all discard effects to check, but I imagine that on the whole you discard less than 4 cards per effect, so the second interpretation probably does slightly less healing overall, even if it occasionally does more. 

[Plaag]

so how it pass playtest? 

and why noone asked abt it before?

yestarday i saw maxine taked 8 dmg and healed all dmg passive with 2 actions, i was shocked that it happened

this is so stupid-u dont spend any resourses(like getting some trigger/spending cards for healing flip, spending stone) and dont have any restrictions(once per activation, los/range to model), also it can be done by using very useful action like calculate and cheating with any card with suit of reconfigure ability to pass tn

if u are not agree abt 1 healing per all 10/5 cards discarded, than it must be once per activation ability

[RiceP.]

21 minutes ago, Plaag said:

so how it pass playtest? 

and why noone asked abt it before?

yestarday i saw maxine taked 8 dmg and healed all dmg passive with 2 actions, i was shocked that it happened

this is so stupid-u dont spend any resourses(like getting some trigger/spending cards for healing flip, spending stone) and dont have any restrictions(once per activation, los/range to model), also it can be done by using very useful action like calculate and cheating with any card with suit of reconfigure ability to pass tn

if u are not agree abt 1 healing per all 10/5 cards discarded, than it must be once per activation ability

Aint this all on a model with 9 wounds, average stats and the only defensive  tech being once per game demise?  

Also, only Maxine can do that supposed ten healing, so she has to be within 6" aura of wounded model(s) to do that. Otherwise, 1-2 healing per activation IF you cheat with reconfigure or IF you've discarded a card seems fine.

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, RiceP. said:

Aint this all on a model with 9 wounds, average stats and the only defensive  tech being once per game demise?  

Also, only Maxine can do that supposed ten healing, so she has to be within 6" aura of wounded model(s) to do that. Otherwise, 1-2 healing per activation IF you cheat with reconfigure or IF you've discarded a card seems fine.

u forget abt emissary and when she cheat with any tomes-she heals, so it reduces dmg this way

also still haka+totem makes all band become invinsible for most of ranged atacks