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Fixing Revenant

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11 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Oh wait, if lampads were incorporeal, they wouldn't be able to drop corpse markers.

yeah, it would make no sense if they keep Undead characteristic. but I prefer Incorporeal over Undead even if my master can make use of corpse markers! Especially if I can create them in other ways.

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3 hours ago, thatlatinspeakingguy said:

yeah, it would make no sense if they keep Undead characteristic. but I prefer Incorporeal over Undead even if my master can make use of corpse markers! Especially if I can create them in other ways.

Totally agree with this, would much rather they gained Incorporeal over being Undead. That severe terrain just kills their movement (which is probably the main thing going for them outside of being tanky). Totally agree on how much better Hanged are than Lampads, so much more internal synergy with itself and keyword (Tormented is a really good example of keyword synergy). Hits a lot harder and has huge debuffs, is almost as tanky, has card draw rather than discard and moves faster in terrain. Lampad moves a lot faster in open ground, and is situationally immortal (provided you have enough cards {yeah right!} and pyre markers nearby). Really, looking at them in a vacuum, Hanged should be 9ss & Lampads 7ss...

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I agree power-level wise, incorporeal is a clear upgrade. But I don't like the direction it takes the model. It diverges synergies for the keyword even more.

If you really wanted to address movement through terrain, could give it an ability that is equivalent to flight but can only be done if it starts or ends its movement in contact with a pyre marker. But given that Reva and Wanyudo are unimpeded, the crew is already very good at dealing with severe terrain. Would be nice if Lampads could teleport to pyre markers, though (and even without LOS, as a way for the crew to be able to bypass impassable terrain).

But as is, if I see a map covered in forests, my desire to play Reva goes way up. It is a fantastic crew for severe terrain already IMO.

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I agree with  @Maniacal_cackle. The crew is already tricky to put to work due to their interactions, having Lampads incorporeal wouldn't help. Also, from a fluff perspective they're literally corpses on fire :)

Some trick with shielded like "if this model has burning at the beginning of its action it gains Shielded +1" could be interesting to justify their price. However, I would focus on giving them +1 Stat in the :ToS-Melee: attack, Cremation and a new utility trigger.

And I don't think that hanged should cost 9ss. They're in the sweet spot of many 8ss minions. Although that Atuned looks like too much of a gift :P

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So I've been playing a few more games with Revenant & listened to the new Schemes & Stones podcast today and got me thinking about this thread again as my findings have been very similar. Reva is great, an absolute blast with mass positive flips allowing her to pump out some decent damage to models that can't reduce). However her crew is really lacking and I keep finding myself reaching for the versatiles/OOK.

For Lampads - giving them Incorporeal would actually be a terrible idea (I know I suggested it above) as then they'd be immune to Hazardous and then wouldn't be able to stack Burning from Pyre Markers!! I've found these guys to be ok in-game, but each time kind of disappointing with their stupidly low stats. Df4 just makes them so easy to hit and a liability against blast masters (Curse you Freikorps rockets!). Up them to Df 5 or give them HtW and up their stats to 6 on both their attacks and they'd be in a great place. Honestly, I'd actually be perfectly fine if they lost the demise ability altogether and got Spirits in the Flames and Flight.

Vincent still needs a reason to be anything other than a counter-tech against summoners or Incorporeal... lower Df, Wp, HP by 1, change Rapid fire to Run & Gun, drop him to 8ss and make Cremation a Bonus would be a fairly simple way to do this.

Draugr - drop Juggernaut and gain 2HP. like Vincent, swap Cremation (ideally with the same trigger Vincent has) to a bonus action.

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I don't see the problems everyone else is seeing with Reva. After the changes, she's moved into one of my top tier masters pretty solidly to the point where she is always in consideration to get picked. I've won the last 11 out of 12 games with her. My loss was because I was completely taken off guard by Mah Tucket and lost Reva too early.

Vincent 

- This guy is solid overall, his ability to create pyre markers isn't the best ability but can be a niche use of an action thats needed if your opponent has a way of actively denying pyre markers. I use him interchangeably with Anna depending on the need of the game. Anna can blow up corpse candles while letting them get free movement and gives card draw. Still, he's not the worst henchman and has some thematic uses and is an amazing anti summoner tech piece.

Corpse Candles

- don't need extra movement, mv 4 isn't great but they are fine. T1, they can push each other an extra 3 inches and they shouldn't be on the board too long. I eat my own corpse candles for focus or reva healing or for double pyre marker placement and then resummon them.

Lampads

- These are better now that they have a purpose. They are essentially burning batteries for Reva. They don't take damage from burning and can stack it up really easily with all of their abilities so she will always have her + flips which is critical for her Df 5. Also, losing the requirement to pitch a card for the corpse candle summoning makes these guys more viable.  Making them incorporeal is an awful idea because then they can't be affected by the pyre markers to pick up the burning. If anything, they should have a way to use the burning like Drauger do.

Drauger

- These guys are my main complaint, I just don't see a need for them. They are extremely squishy and don't hold up long enough for me.

Shieldbearers

- MVPs by far. Run two of these and you'll never be sorry. They provide movement/counter movement shenanigans, they are hard to put down, they can gain shielded to allow reva to attack through them, they can defend your important models with take the hit and their attack can be surprisingly gross.

Wanyudo

- If you aren't running him in your games, you're missing out. His Movement gives the crew a quick scheme runner or counter scheme runner.

Mourners

- Haven't found a real use for them and don't think I will. More Red Chapel than anything else.

Asura Roten

- Amazing in the correct pools but just don't rely on her to score all your points. Once your opponent recognizes her value, she'll die quick.

 

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