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  1. Pergli

    Nicodem - Post Nerf

    Yeah, its definitely something you have to be aware of as an option that could ruin Nico's day. There aren't many situations where its it can do that though. The only two I can think of the top of my head is Banasuva and then dreamer but most people don't run dreamer. Dreamer with 3 ap + shoot expert + melee expert with his bat, turns out chompy who then chain activates to kill nico. I've never actually run Necrotic King because the upgrade slots were all in use. It may be more viable now that his summons aren't really that great anymore. 1 AP to summon, 1 AP to full heal then 1 AP to give them all + flips to dmg and Ca actions. Maybe swap out circling buzzards for the upgrade since all you're getting is 1 corpse. This will make running beaters in your list much more powerful. Archie, Izamu or Valedictorian with + flips for dmg sounds gross. Not even counting your whatever you summon. PZ's 2/4/5 becomes much worse if he is most likely hitting straight flips for damage. Definitely going to try this in my next game and see how it goes.
  2. Pergli

    Nicodem - Post Nerf

    Not sure what you mean by this as the best way to play nico was to always commit to the summoning. There were other ways to run with him but they definitely weren't as competitive as fully embracing his summoning. I'm sure there are other ways to run him with his changes but with only a month of practice before gencon, there really wasn't enough time to experiment with other variations to see what else could be competitive. I had a couple of options I was tinkering with in my head but I'd rather play something i know in a tournament than flip to something unknown on the fly. While Love Thy Master works best with punks/kentauroi/students, it isn't exclusive. If they have poison, you can use a shikome, if you need to do some pushes for quick positioning, belles and doxies are still good or if you want a scheme runner you can summon a necropunk at one wound, chain activate him, heal 2 wounds and run him into a safe position for scoring next round. The biggest thing that you have to be wary about is Love thy Master applies to all models summoned within 6 inches of nico. San Deep can summon Banasuva next to nico, attack nico and then chain into Banasuva to swing at him to turn him into mush.
  3. Pergli

    Nicodem - Post Nerf

    Not worth the points anymore (I never liked it anyway but even less so now). Not only do you get 1 less card but you're removing a corpse from the game every turn to get the card and the stone. Before, losing a corpse marker wasn't a big deal because you generated so many excess corpse markers but now you need every one you can get your hands on. You need at least 2 corpse markers a turn in order to get an effective summon and you aren't generating that constantly enough. Honestly, it all comes down to my overall game plan of adding as many corpse markers to the field as possible so I have the resources I need to be overwhelming with my summons and board control. Anything that inhibits that game plan is an absolute no go, at least in my book. Ontop of the above, I have no idea where you'd pull the points from unless you're going minimal cache. The list I posted is as min/maxed as I could get minus the circling buzzards (corpse or a stone, thats your choice).
  4. Pergli

    Nicodem - Post Nerf

    Yes, that is exactly what you do. Kentauri has a 3 inch base so when you move, you stay just within 2 inches of the belle. That means nico moves 2 inches + Kentauri base size of 3 inches+ his 1 inch base. Pretty much a 5.5-6 inch move for 1 AP and then the belle just gets dropped somewhere else! Pretty much wherever you plop him down, this is where he will sit and control the flow of the game. He may move if necessary but that is mostly all he needs to get his positioning right for turns 1-3. Which game? Yeah, he definitely is still pretty solid. The only real problems I run into is when people try to assassinate him but I'm thinking with the extra zombies block movement and charges (you can try to walk away but they are swinging at ml 6 and + flips) it definitely helps keep him safe. That is the problem I was running into whenever I dropped muwahaha, he just kept getting killed. Even if I killed a beater turn 1/2, it was just rough. I'm not as sold on making a model fast unless I definitely NEED the AP to put something down. Trading 2 master AP for 1 full wound minion who then can flurry for 3 AP is a good trade but 1 master AP for a minion AP doesn't sell it to me unless it's a critical situation. Like moving and then charging or something along those lines.
  5. Pergli

    Nicodem - Post Nerf

    Cool, i'll work on it tonight. Honestly, this is the best way I've found to run Nico and after rereading the post some of it is just disjointed thoughts. Need to make it a bit more clear too.
  6. Pergli

    Nicodem - Post Nerf

    Hey guys, I thought i'd post about Nicodem after having some time to play the nerf and honestly, it isn't as bad as everyone feared. Was he hit hard? Absolutely. Does it make him unplayable? Definitely not. I played at Gencon with only a month of being able to play him in practice and did pretty decently. I'm sure if I had more time with the nerf, it would've been better, especially considering my loses were due to personal mistakes and not the list itself. Here is my basic Nicodem list: Nicodem - Love They Master - If you do not take this upgrade, you're playing him wrong. Being able to chain activate your one wound minions still gives you the AP advantage and definitely can cause a surprise to someone who wasn't expecting there to be a punk zombie or shikome attacking them. - Maniacal Laugh - Sure, we don't draw cards because of zombies but that doesn't remove their uses. You still keep activation control, they are still ridiculous with Asura's attacks and they are useful blockers. Also, laughing up your spare corpses prevents your opponent from being able to remove them or abuse them. - Circling Buzzards - I take this for two reasons. 1. Corpse markers are a valuable resource that just became a difficult resource to keep in the field since we need 2 corpse to make any summon effective. 2. If take prisoner is in the pool, people love to take prisoner on the malifaux child. I can summon a vulture and sac the child to deny this. (I opted last minute to swap this in for undertaker. The card draw just isn't worth it anymore and the trigger on your summon is laughable. I am NOT paying 1AP and 2 corpse markers for a 3 wound model. The only time that is useful is with a punk zombie because HtK) Malifaux Child - Incredibly useful for giving fast out to Philip for card draw or doing a decay to heal a model to full without expending Nico AP or forcing Nico to activate to save a model. Mortimer - Corpse bloat and MLH for obvious reasons. Still the most effective way to generate corpse turn one. I tried the desperate merc method and I don't like spending my first turn attacking myself. Too many things can go wrong which deny it. Morty is just reliable and essential. Asura Roten - No upgrades. She hangs back to debuff enemies, add zombies and let zombies hit above their point cost. Also she drops a scheme for Philip as needed. Philip and the Nanny - Haunting cries because why not, its free. The card draw is also ridiculous and required in this list. Kentauroi - Explained in turn 1 strat Rotten Belle - Explained in turn 1 strat This has actually been my list (minus swapping the buzzards and undertaker upgrade) from pre nerf. It's just too powerful and gives more options than the traditional summoning engine. It may not look like it, but this list is an alpha strike list and when it hits, it crushes whatever you've decided is going to die turn 1. Turn 1 strat Pick an enemy model. WP 5 is preferable but something that is a linchpin in their plan is the optimized choice. Your goal, is to kill that model this turn and it is pretty easy even if they can burn their stones for damage reduction. Goal is to have an 11 and 12 in hand minimum for your summon combo. Activation: Asura - Drop scheme for Philip, move for better positioning and summon a zombie Summoned zombie - Grasping hands on something. Doesn't really matter, just force card flips and decisions. Or move to be better abused by Nico. Morty - Runs 8 inches and drops 2 corpse markers Child or Philip Decision time (do you think the kentauroi will be able to charge something? Do you need 3 lures to grab something? Rotten belle is normally the choice so we will go with that) Philip activates, eats a scheme and then drops another scheme to prep for next round. Child activates and gives the belle fast. Kentauroi - Grabs nicodem and moves him 5-6 inches up the board to the best position for summoning. This prevents nico from wasting AP walking since his AP just became super valuable. Then he grabs the rotten belle and moves her to a nice lure position. Alternatively, if you have the 11 and 12 in hand while also having a 9 crow+ in hand, you can bring mortimer up so he can drop 3 corpse for a total of 5 corpse on the field turn 1. Rotten Belle triple lures whatever you want dead to your corpse markers and hopefully they don't have an answer or way to stop this. Nicodem AP 1 - Summon a kentauroi Ap 2 - Summon a shikome Ap 3 - Cast decay on the shikome, sac a corpse to full heal her to 8. 0 - Zombie out of any spare corpse markers within range for activation control next turn. If your opponent still has activations, chain activate the kentauroi and charge the sucker model. The goal is to get one success and put a poison on the model. Kentauroi dies and drops 2 corpse markers for next turn (you now have 3 corpse on the field) Bring in the shikome. Cast adversary, hopefully get it off but no biggie if not. Charge in for 1 AP and murder the model. Alternatively, you can summon a punk zombie within range to flurry. Times I would bring a punk zombie instead would be if the shikome engaging the enemy would mean that I would have to leave Nico's bubble. The PZ has an extra inch on engagement range which can make all the difference. Although, if you happen to have a 13 in hand to make sure adversary goes off, then it doesn't matter :). The damage output on this is insane and will break most models down. SS users may end up burning all their stones to reduce damage and keep their model alive which is great. I'd rather my opponent have 0 stones going into turn 2 than 5-6 stones. It limits their options and you can always flurry with initiative to keep the pressure on the poor model. --------------- The rest of the game should be pretty standard in terms of how you play and what you summon based on your needs. Summoning a model in at one wound needs to have a purpose and thankfully Love They Master allows them to fulfill it. PZ allows you to output damage (shikome are great but I don't run alot of poison), Kentauroi hits like a truck at range, necropunks can self heal and run schemes, dead doxies can push models around and die to give other models fast (trading 1 master AP for 2 AP + 0 + fast on something nearby). Nicodem's general AP is much better spent summoning a single model and then giving it full wounds for 2 corpse markers. It puts big threats on the field, doesn't require as many cards to pull off and still allows you AP control. Quick bit about GenCon, I went 2W/3D/1L, 1 of the draws was a huge mistake I made because it was 12:30 am and misplaced a scheme marker, 1 was extremely hard fought and required some crazy planning to go off to work and the final one was me misidentifying my opponents schemes. Overall, I think it was pretty solid and if only I was a better player or had more TIME to practice the nerf before the tournament. The circling buzzards was something i've never played with before and decided to do the day of the first tournament. It ended up making a big impact with activation control and available corpse markers. If people are genuinely interested, I may be able to create a report of the games with a basic run down and such. Hopefully this helps some other Nicodem players out there to try something different than the old school summoning engine which is definitely not as broken. Apologies in advance if things are mispelled or don't make alot of sense. I didn't proof read this before clicking submit.
  7. Pergli

    Bone Piles?

    Ahh, I forgot about that. Then he is useless in those! I was just about to come back and argue of course he isn't immune to those but those are strategy conditions not scheme conditions. I don't see any schemes that use conditions unless i'm missing something.
  8. Pergli

    Bone Piles?

    He is definitely just an alternate scheme runner to counter the necropunk. While a little less mobile without a corpse marker, I definitely prefer him over the NP. More wounds, pile of bones and he can counter another scheme runner setup on the otherside of the table much better. I have a limited experience in all the various masters but I don't see him really being used in Seamus or Nicodem. Nico has much better pick options in the 10 SS range and you wouldn't hire him in ours because he needs all the support models to function. Reva is the only place I realistically see this being used due to her corpse marker placements. Ours is a guarantee but ply, shed blood and symbols aren't too bad. Ours - Obvious, just sit him in a corner as a 12 point model and be really annoying, if they get too aggressive on him, just use his 2 action to pop up somewhere else. Ply/Shed - He counts as two models so if he has one of those conditions, he is 2 of that making him extremely valuable. His Sh with a focus shot can easily kill something to give him the shed blood condition. Symbols - I haven't tried him in this but I could see the merit. Place your first corpse candle near an outlying symbol and then have him pop up next to it at the end of turn 1 and pick it up on turn 2. My reva list is slow moving in the beginning so this definitely could be a way to get around this.
  9. Pergli

    Considerations for Summer Errata

    I can see the merit with this but I don't actually use Sebastian with my Nico list and it is currently unbeaten in the latest design. I always felt like doing that just took it a step too far with the poison for 3 damage and getting 2 cards + 1 stone per zombie. Definitely something needs to be fixed and while I think that is definitely one of them, I don't think thats the only change which needs to happen. Undertaker removing sacrificed or peon would go a long way to reducing the card cycling. I'm sure there are other ways but those two are the main fixes I can think of.
  10. Pergli

    NB Lucius - Trying to figure him out

    Queeg looks interesting for sure out of all the options because the 0s + allowing interact with 0 for ply sounds amazing. I was thinking the same thing about just running lynch but I think if you only bring the three models, its enough of the brilliance that you aren't relying on it. That's a fair point about using them as scheme runners, I hadn't considered that and I probably need some in my list. I'll have to play with them to see how they feel. Guild Guard is good too. 6 points for 2 models to protect lucius sounds nice but how often does he need a retinue? --------------------------- Also, I saw that Graves is the normal take with him but I'm not sure if thats the correct person anymore. He has a Ml 6 with 345 with his auto trigger being worthless. His Crushing Strike has potential and he is somewhat survivable. His pushes are pretty good but I think the investigator has enough push shenanigans it isn't as needed. The illuminated to compare without brilliance are Ml6 245 with a further threat range. They also have armor, built in regen + a 0 to heal. If you can get brilliance on a model with either their 1 ap range shot (using lucius) or the beckoner they become ml6 467 with the ability to cheat on neg flips with their trigger. You also get a higher Df + Wp model and because they are minions, they synergize with lucius + flips/horror duels + Issue command extremely well. Am I missing something on why Mr. Graves is better (I won't take Mr. Tannen, I don't think he has a place anymore)?
  11. Pergli

    NB Lucius - Trying to figure him out

    How does that work? The Winter Spear says Rg: Gun 8 or close 2. Elite training only benefits the close attack. I checked the FAQ but i may have missed it. I didn't even consider Queeg comboing with the claw and the rougarou with their 0s for free plus the free interacts. That makes him potentially worth taking. The Hans gunline looks like fun, how well does that work out?
  12. Hey guys, i'm trying to figure out Lucius with neverborn. I was told he wasn't very strong and coming from Nicodem to this is going to be a massive overhaul to my way of thinking and playing the game. I'm looking for any tips/tricks or cool combos that can be done. I've wrote up a few of ideas of what has been going back and forth recently in my mind for solid list building. Writing it down helps my thought process with this and if anyone has experience or better ideas/suggestions, please fill me in. Also, is there a neverborn FB group like there is for the other factions? Henchmen + Enforcers - Master Queeg looks situational with allows models to interact for 0 (ply for information or some scheme pools). - I know people love the Doppelgänger but i'm not sold on her with this crew. Just not sure whose abilities I'd like to take again other than maybe a beckoner but I can just use Lucius to accomplish this same idea without spending an extra 7 stones. - Emmissary might be fun. With all the pushes and his 0, it can cause a ton of walk duels and if you go minion heavy, the extra + flip can be extremely useful. Plus summoning changlings for more activation control sounds like fun. 10 points is a heavy investment but maybe not if its your only hechman/enforcer. I'm probably going to be focusing more on minions since that is where Lucius' strength lies. Guardsmen Investigator - I think these might be an always include for me. Free card draw + scheme/scrap/corpse removal is always solid. Allowing free pushes off the drops is also amazing especially since its once per activation. I could make a long list of all the various utilities i've thought about for this model with it's various pushes but suffice to say that it is probably one of the best models for board control. Austringer - I'm not 100% sold on this model but a 12 sh7 that requires no LOS and ignores cover is solid. Hide him behind a building and take pot shots at everything with no reprecussions. Also, you can completely drain an opponents hand on the first activation forcing them to change their plan to react to not having any resources is extremely powerful. Top that off with direct orders for the various schemes/strats or even the bultungin, it is almost an auto include for me. Guild Guard - Cheap filler units who are not insignificant and are df6 when other guilds guard are nearby. I think you have to take 3 to make this worth anything but that limits the options above. Guild Hounds - Also cheap filler units but are going to most likely be insignificant unless you bring more hounds. Their 1 ap charge when there are schemes can combo nicely. Especially with lucius using his ability to push them 3 inches and letting them take another 1ap charge. Not sure how useful or powerful it is but it sounds hilariously annoying. Brilliance Illuminated - I'm thinking 2 of these are going to be a staple in every list. They are solid models who can tank a ton of damage. Armor + regen + 0 heal means they will take punishment and be able to continue doing what needs to be done. Combining with the beckoner giving out brilliance, their damage spread becomes ml6 4/6/7 which is absurd for a 7 minion. Beckoner - Obviously pulls models into pounce range, illuminated charge range or hands out brilliance. Also a mimic which can help keep Lucius alive and my list runs very few mimics/guardsmen so this helps. Fae Bultungin - Probably another solidly powerful model to come out of wave 5 for this crew but not so much for anyone else (That I can tell). I doubt opponents will drop scheme markers within LOS of him but you have plenty of ways to get free attacks out of him. Investigator pushing him off drops, Austringer with deliver order and Lucius with Issue command (a 2AP attack and a 1AP attack for 1 master AP sounds solid) are the reliable ways I can see this going off in this crew. I'm sure there are others but something that pushes your own models is what is needed for this. Rougarou - Pounce also combos really well with this list and the fact that it can eat your abundant scheme markers to heal is a plus. Honestly, I have an issue with having too many scheme markers so I can't place more, this can help with that. The Claw - My top out of the 3 Autumn knight minions. Winter spear gives you a range threat and can drop schemes in base which again, combo for healing, lucius attacks or the investigator. Also has a 0 which can push models for extra pounce attacks. The Thorn - 0 push plus placing a scheme marker in base like the other fae. It's melee can give card draw which is always a positive in my opinion but the damage spread is low. Mimics I don't really see any power with any of the current mimic choices. Terracotta warrior - a 6 cost minion with 4 wounds. Sure, it can help with Lucius stone cycling but I don't think it's worth it. Vogel - i'm not sold on with this crew. Seems like fun if you go with a bunch of beasts but the beast that comes out is an enforcer so its not as useful with Lucius. Changlings - okay if you have the points for them or summon them but I can't seem to find the points for them. Guild Lawyers - Probably meh, barely looked at them. Fees might be interesting but I think the points are better elsewhere. Pretty much where I've ended up with my train of thought. I'm sure there are models i'm not considering which may have some use or cool tricks/combo but I'm not fluent enough with neverborn and how they play. Any help or guidance would be much appreciated!!
  13. Pergli

    The New Seamus

    With Sybelle, I was thinking you give her MLH and that gives her pretty much just one solid turn. The rest of it, meh. You shriek twice so two opponents have to focus her but they can't focus her from further than 3 inches causing them to waste AP or resources. Again, its only one turn you get this off. I really do find the idea of this Seamus as a good alternative for Nico. I love nico but there is so much salt (I don't even run the main nico list) that I need to play other things before my group lynches me. On Seamus, why would you take AKA vs Unnerving aura? Unnerving seems like it can be powerful for those models who either end up engaged with him or paralyzed. Paralyzed models are pretty much auto wounded with this upgrade or are points better spent elsewhere?
  14. Pergli

    Gravedigger op or misunderstood

    I've been thinking about running gravedigger in my nico list. It wouldn't necessarily grab every corpse marker that generates. Just 2-3 for the extra card draw. Also, it can counter pick other crews who are bringing models which deny your corpse markers. Finally, it could be a really fun corpse bloat bomb making mortimer less useless late game. 50mm base can catch alot of models within the aura. Also obviously if its nico v nico, you want to bring it so it can deny their nico corpse while providing for you. If they kill it, you muwahaha all the corpse that fall off of it before they can get them.
  15. Pergli

    No Gnashing In The Zone!

    Hmm okay so here is what i'm thinking: My standard list has: Nico, Morty (CB, MLH), Emissary (conlux of + flips on attack) Mortimer can be replaced with Asura. It's one less corpse marker on turn 1 but that means Nico can give whatever you summon fast or another one of your minions fast to make up the loss of AP. You could give Asura CB but I wounding her (assuming asura is a woman) is not optimal, even for a corpse marker. There also isn't a good 0 on her so MLH is no longer useful. I'm trying to figure out what upgrades to give her if any. Nothing is useful in terms of what is currently out. I'm sure there will be more upgrades later but not at the moment. Carrion Emissary... it's a toss up to me between the Nico specific conflux or the general one. Yes, it makes zombies hit harder. The attack will probably be Ml6 and potentitally Ml8. It sounds pretty amazing on paper but i'm not sure if it beats out + flips on attacks. Flipping 2 cards for lure, take your meds, take the lead or any of the hanged attacks is so good. Especially if you're flipping against someone who gives - flips to cast actions. I guess it comes down to how many zombies you expect to have in the game and how reliant you are on them. Also, the pro for the Nico conflux would be that there isn't a bubble for it vs the emissary having to babysit one or two of your minions. For me, +1/+2 on a 2/3/4 attack isn't as valuable as flipping an additional card on some of those more necessary abilities that allow you to break the game. BUT i'm probably wrong since i've only been playing for about 3 months