Ideas for upcoming errata (outcast)

[clockworkspide]

2 hours ago, Zebo said:

Agree, but an upgrade that's only viable with one out of eight crews seems like quite bad for me.

Protection Money is a very situational ability, and we only accept it because of Bandits having Drop It to force it, but still is very uncommon.

Expert Thief is another very situational action, only can be used versus a small amount of targets, you must spend actions and renounce to damage enemy key models to do it, and even the stat for it is low for their targets.

 

And the same with Hired Soldier. People seem happy paying 2ss for HtK, wheh I never would hire any actual outcast model for 2ss more if it only had HtK to compensate, and This Will Fetch a High Price is barely never come to play. The Bounty Hunter ability seems good, but a bit hard to achieve with minions (and the more dangerous minions cannot attach it).

Maybe you're just undervaluing HtK?  Especially for a crew as heal-heavy as Freikorps.

 

I've gotten decent mileage from Soldier for Hire on the Scout and Drache Trooper.

[Zebo]

HtK doesn't succeed in every game.

In the games that I've lost Von Schill, HtK may have been useful about 50% of the games, and in the rest mostly my opponent has needed one more ap to kill him, so 2ss for one enemy ap each 3-5 games doesn't worth for me.

And equal to Von Schill is the Viks, Taelor, Drachen Trooper or Ronin (the last has HtK themselves, and about half the time it doesn't matter at all).

Not sure about you, but when I pay 2ss for an upgrade I expect to make use of it some times in every game, not once or twice each 2-4 games.

[explorator]

Hard to Kill on Ronin is pure money when you stay alive with 1 wound before committing Seppuku and getting a 2 SS REFUND! It is situational, yes, but on certain models HtK is valuable. SS user can really frustrate opponents with HtK.

[Jkkb]

How can we seriously be arguing about if Hired Soldier and Wanted Criminal are good when other factions have upgrades that gives them Arcane Reservoir, Butterfly Jump, Ruthless, Shuts down free actions and shut down defensive triggers? I think it's pretty obvious that Outcast is one of the factions that got the least useful upgrades. I only ever find myself using Servants and that is also only on a few models.

[Douglas Scoundrels]

Being on the receiving end of these, I think Mad Dog Brackett, Guilty, Rusty, & A&D are my biggest complaints.

Mad Dog - Cost increase and/or only Injured +1 on the Cigar.

Rusty - cost increase and she probably doesn't need execute. Min 3 with relatively easy access to 4 shots an activation is plenty.

A&D - Cost increase. Insignificant on Dust Storm

Guilty - Cost increase.

Some of these are probably a bit extreme, but it's just my initial thoughts.

[SoulGambit]

Are we confirmed for a balancing pass? Errata doesn't usually include a lot of model changea.

[Mycellanious]

On 12/8/2019 at 8:36 PM, Kaiser Senpai said:

Being on the receiving end of these, I think Mad Dog Brackett, Guilty, Rusty, & A&D are my biggest complaints.

Mad Dog - Cost increase and/or only Injured +1 on the Cigar.

Rusty - cost increase and she probably doesn't need execute. Min 3 with relatively easy access to 4 shots an activation is plenty.

A&D - Cost increase. Insignificant on Dust Storm

Guilty - Cost increase.

Some of these are probably a bit extreme, but it's just my initial thoughts.

whats the logic behind the guilty cost increase out of curiosity?

[Douglas Scoundrels]

57 minutes ago, Mycellanious said:

whats the logic behind the guilty cost increase out of curiosity?

Because that seemed like an acceptable change for a model that I feel is just a bit too good for 6 stones?

[Mycellanious]

8 hours ago, Kaiser Senpai said:

Because that seemed like an acceptable change for a model that I feel is just a bit too good for 6 stones?

Well yea but I mean why do you think it is too good for 5 stones?

[Jesy Blue]

The stand alone respawn game the Guilty bring to any crew for 6 Stones is very strong (except against Ten Thunders of course).

They hurt you unless you kill them; you kill them you give your opponent a bonus; you take away the bonus you resummon Guilty and start the cycle again. 

[Adran]

12 hours ago, SoulGambit said:

Are we confirmed for a balancing pass? Errata doesn't usually include a lot of model changea.

I've seen nothing official. I think people are basing it on the M2 schedule so assuming something soon. 

[thatlatinspeakingguy]

do people really bring the guilty out of keyword in tournaments and do better than those who don't?

[Ming]

15 hours ago, thatlatinspeakingguy said:

do people really bring the guilty out of keyword in tournaments and do better than those who don't?

I guess the only reason to hire it OOK is with Dead Outlaw in Bandit.

[thatlatinspeakingguy]

Am I the only person who thinks that giving Malifaux Rats Evasive will improve the performance of Plague crews (both in terms of competitiveness and lenght of play - no more 10-minutes-turns-because-you-need-to-figure-out-how-to-minimize-the-loss-of-your-rats-from-ubiquitous-blasts-and-pulses nonsense) without breaking the game?

[KID55]

Insignificant of Dust Storm - not good idea, because now is harder to reform into new A&D then in m2e. Now opponent needs just break base contact between Core and Storm. In almost all cases (if opp know this model) new A&D does not come. And significant Storm - it's fair deal. You can not get new scary guy, but you receive good schemer. This is an idea of this model, I think.

[Ming]

45 minutes ago, thatlatinspeakingguy said:

Am I the only person who thinks that giving Malifaux Rats Evasive will improve the performance of Plague crews (both in terms of competitiveness and lenght of play - no more 10-minutes-turns-because-you-need-to-figure-out-how-to-minimize-the-loss-of-your-rats-from-ubiquitous-blasts-and-pulses nonsense) without breaking the game?

It would make rats imbalanced. Now we at least can kill them with a flamethrower.

[KID55]

And Storm can not take Interact in turn when he was summoned.

[Ming]

4 minutes ago, KID55 said:

Insignificant of Dust Storm - not good idea, because now is harder to reform into new A&D then in m2e. Now opponent needs just break base contact between Core and Storm. In almost all cases (if opp know this model) new A&D does not come. And significant Storm - it's fair deal. You can not get new scary guy, but you receive good schemer. This is an idea of this model, I think.

Also, Storm still can't interact on the turn it's summoned. No need for further insignificance.

[Zeus]

If evasive rats are too imbalanced at least give them blast proof so they don’t auto die to every blast pulse or shockwave attack in the game.

Re an errata in general I still think it’s abit too early to make changes across the board. My only concern is that in competition play I think there is already a move away from taking keyword crews which goes against the whole change to introduce this in M3e. Not sure what the solution is though.

[LexLock]

32 minutes ago, Ming said:

Also, Storm still can't interact on the turn it's summoned. No need for further insignificance.

Some need for further insignificance. It's almost impossible to get less than 10ss of value out of Ashes and Dust as is. Between their speed, free ping damage and demise its gonna be really hard for your opponent to stop you from getting more than your stones worth, even out of keyword.

The problem with the demise is that you don't even need to try to reform to get value, your decent 9 cost dies and you get two significant models for free that continue doing work, the Dust Storm can summon somewhere on the opposite side of the board and continue getting VP. If you make the Dust Storm insignificant then reforming becomes a lot more important and positioning A&D becomes less braindead, you have to pick your battles if you want to bring them back, instead of just throwing them in there and saying "Hey, free scheme runner if A&D dies".

[S4lt]

I don't think anything needs an immediate errata in Outcasts. It's too early.

There is definitely stuff on the watch list for good and bad but it needs another 6 months of play.

[Zebo]

I disagree. While I can agree with giving some more test to models like Scout or Bishop, there are other models that fall into a very poor performances. 

The Desperate Mercenaries only can give a very weak long range support, in a crew so mobile that you really don't need it at all. A Ronin can walk + charge up to the same 14" that the Desperate Mercenary's gun ranges, and make two attacks with weak 2 + ignoring armor + better triggers. 

Johan nas become a too pricey too slow ok beater, with almost inexistent support, I don't remember having read any report in which he is hired. 

The Winged Plague does nothing worthing their cost. Yes, they are cheap, but they are not mobile, not tough, not strong enough for their cost. The only good thing that they do is to spread Blight when dying, and not enough for 4ss investment. 

[Zebo]

After a couple games with Mercenary, I'm begging for some help to Student of Conflict. She's like a one trick pony too easy to kill and usually not worth the cost. 

Maybe some trigger on Covetous Cravings (like Preparations) 

But adding Analyze Weakness to her profile would help the Viks to recover some of their old killings, and end being a dual-scheme-runner Master. 

It's really dissapointing the idea of double melee Masters that can't stand in front of any decent tanky beater. Seems like the only thing they can do is to bully medium models (which any Master can do) or to run for their lives. 

[Da Git]

Probably more an FAQ, but I'd like confirmation on whether Hannah can use general actions with Adaptive Tactics. I'd really like it to work as she has so many good in keyword actions she can use, but allowing her to use general on herself would make her viable OOK. Otherwise, allow her to target any minion. 

[Morgan Vening]

3 hours ago, Da Git said:

Probably more an FAQ, but I'd like confirmation on whether Hannah can use general actions with Adaptive Tactics. I'd really like it to work as she has so many good in keyword actions she can use, but allowing her to use general on herself would make her viable OOK. Otherwise, allow her to target any minion. 

Seems reasonable. Best I could find was copying the Dead Bandit's ability to give herself Fast, which isn't too bad.

Though I'd probably make it Outcast Minion, just to stop any potentially weird OOF interactions. Tormented, Infamous and Nephilim (Barbaros hiring) have significant OOF pools that might have an unexpected interaction.

Also probably add a "non-replace" clause, or you'll allow her to turn into a Desolation Engine or a Rat King, which might be an issue. Might not now, but might with future scheme/strat pools.[/s]

EDIT: I R dumb.