Waldo's Weekly - Carving Our Way to M3E

[Kyle]

Hey Wyrdos,

Despite our best efforts, Waldo got out of the office this week. That’s what we get for leaving candy out. We found him on someone’s doorstep, carving his likeness into each of their pumpkins (you can find the stencil in the latest issue of Chronicles!).

Once we managed to wrangle him back here, he wouldn’t stop talking about the latest changes that we’re making to our favorite perennial terror, Carver. He even promised to stop changing Matt’s passwords if we showed off his stat card.

The most important thing about the Carver in M3E is that he’s now a legal model! In M2E, the Carver was always a “use if the Strategy allows it” model, but we’ve removed that restriction and enabled this scarecrow to go on a rampage no matter the time of year.

Let’s take a look:

So right off the bat, you’ll notice that the Carver has a high Cost of ten, making him one of the most expensive non-Master models in the game. In M2E, models with a Cost higher than ten were in an awkward space; they had to be strong enough to justify their impressive Cost, but this often led to them having rules that were so strong they distorted games (and their Faction) around them. Nekima and Ashes and Dust are prime examples of this effect.

In M3E, we are capping the Cost of non-Master models at 10. The one exception is the Coryphee Duet, due to the interesting way that it can combine and break apart during the game (though that’s an article for another time). Capping the cost of non-Master models at 10 means that we have a ceiling on how powerful those models could be while ensuring that they don’t have to be so powerful that they would distort their Faction’s balance.

Next, you’ll notice that the Carver has the Nightmare and Woe Keywords. This means that it can be hired by Leaders with the Nightmare and Woe Keywords at no penalty, or by other Neverborn Leaders at a +1 increase to its Cost. At first glance, this means that both Dreamer and Pandora can make good use of the Carver, but it also means that he’s an easy hire for Henchmen Leaders such as Candy or the Widow Weaver.

To take this one step further, the Carver is a Henchman, which means that it could lead a Crew itself! Since it has the Nightmare and Woe Keywords, it could hire both Nightmare and Woe models without penalty, which gives it quite a cost-effective Leader for players that want to run a Crew of mixed Nightmares and Woes. The Carver is restricted from hiring any Masters while it is the Leader – Henchmen can’t run Crews that contain Masters as a general rule – but this doesn’t mean that it’s helpless.

Henchmen gain two distinct bonuses while they’re the Leaders of their Crew. The first is that, like Masters, Leaders can take three Actions per Activation in M3E, which helps them compete with Masters. The second bonus comes in the form of each Faction’s Effigy model, which has a special rule allowing it to be hired for free into a Crew with a Henchman Leader. This allows each Effigy model to effectively serve as a generic Totem for its Faction’s Henchmen, which further helps to ensure that matches between Master Leaders and Henchmen Leaders are balanced.

But just what does the Carver bring to a Crew? Well, let’s take a look.

First we have Terrifying (11). There’s no more immunity to Horror duels in M3E (or Horror duels at all, for that matter), so models will have to deal with the Carver’s Terrifying Ability each time they target this murderous scarecrow. The penalties for failure have been reduced, however; now, instead of a model’s Activation immediately ending, the Action that targeted the Carver simply fails. This ensures that Terrifying isn’t quite such an “all or nothing” Ability, which in turn means that we’re not as restricted in our design process by the innate rules of M2E’s Horror duels. If you’ve heard us talk about “simplifying Malifaux,” this is the sort of thing we mean: we keep the feel and fluff of an ability while making it less cumbersome to process on the tabletop.

Moving on! Next up is Feed on Fear, an Ability possessed by just about every Nightmare model beyond the Dreamer. While not overly flashy, Feed on Fear is a nice little heal effect that helps to keep the Carver (and other Nightmares) on their feet.

Ruthless is next. In M3E, Ruthless is a great Ability, as it allows a model to completely ignore the Terrifying and Manipulative Abilities. The Carver is an invaluable addition to any Crew that intends to face off against enemies that rely on these Abilities for protection (such as the Performers, Journalists, and Redchapel models).

Next up we have Opportunist, which is a common Ability among Woe models. As both a Nightmare and a Woe, the Carver gets the best of both worlds! Opportunist makes the Carver’s attacks more reliable against enemy models with the Stunned Condition, which the Woes hand out like candy at, well… Halloween. The Stunned Condition is incredibly powerful, as it prevents a model from both declaring Triggers and taking Bonus Actions (i.e. M2E’s (0) Actions), so if you’re facing Pandora and relying upon your Triggers to save you, well… you’re probably going to have a bad day.

Finally, we have the new version of Misery. One very important rule in M3E is that models can’t be affected by multiple versions of the same Aura. If an enemy model Cheats Fate near three models with the Misery Ability, for example, it will only suffer one damage. This does shut down Pandora’s traditional tactic of “surround them with Sorrows and papercut them to death,” but on the other hand, playing against Pandora no longer feels like torture, so it’s hard to get too upset over the change. This new version of Misery punishes the opponent for Cheating Fate, which ties back into Pandora’s new control game.

Flipping over to the back side of the Carver’s card, we have its melee Action, Shears. Engagement ranges and average damage have both dropped in M3E, but even then, 2/2/4 isn’t particularly great for a 10ss Henchman like the Carver. What makes up for it is its stat of 7, which is among the best of the best, and his built-in Ram, which allows it to automatically hit its Critical Strike trigger to jump up to a 3/3/5 damage track… or 4/4/6 with a Ram card or a spent Soulstone!

While this allows the Carver to put out some really great damage, it also forces the scarecrow to make a choice when it comes to Triggers: should it go with the high, reliable damage, or would it be better to make another Attack? The Swift Action Trigger gives the Carver this option, but it’s important to note that Actions generated by Triggers cannot themselves declare Triggers in M3E. In addition to stopping infinite Attack chains (which are fun but also incredibly frustrating), this ensures models aren’t chaining together truly absurd strings of damage and effects like you’d sometimes see in M2E.

Finally, there’s the good ol’ Execute Trigger, which just flat-out Kills something dead (unless the opponent pays the price, of course). The “Demise” Abilities listed in the Trigger are a broad set of Abilities that happen after a model is Killed, such as cosplaying Gremlins turning into normal Bayou Gremlins or Leveticus returning from death to possess one of his Hollow Waifs. Since the Execute Trigger ignores these effects, it makes a great counter to models that expect to make the most of their own deaths.

The Carver’s second Action is Breath of Fire, which gives it some solid, reliable blast damage. Blasts work pretty much just like they did in M2E, so you can all pretty much figure out how Breath of Fire works. One of the nice things about this Action is that it’s not a Projectile Action (there’s no gun icon), so it can be used even if the Carver is engaged.

The Carver’s third Action is Glimpse of Insanity. The little lightning bolt icon denotes that this Action is a Bonus Action, so using it doesn’t count toward one of the Carver’s Actions, though it can only be used once per Action. In M2E, this would have been called a “Free Action” or a “(0) Action).” As for its effects, Glimpse of Insanity is fairly common among Woe models and ties into that “Woes will make your models Stunned like whoa” playstyle that I mentioned earlier.

Finally, we have Draw Essence, which allows the Carver to suck the life out of models around it. The italicized portion of this Action is its cost, which must be paid when the Action is declared. By separating Actions out into costs and effects like this, we’ve managed to make some of the more complicated Actions in the game a bit easier to parse.

So there you have it! That’s a glimpse of the Carver and how it ties into M3E.

Next time, we’ll take a look at some Effigy and Emissary models and talk about how, with a bit of love and some tender care, you can grow one into the other during a game.

[Ludvig]

That looks great! The carver deserved it's own rules.

[Thedeadclaw]

This looks incredible! Every new preview we get just increases my hype for 3e! Can't wait to get to see these at tournaments!

[Jesy Blue]

Non-Master models cost capped at 10ss... interesting.

Seeing as, from an outside perspective, The Carver doesn't seem all that bad ass, what will that mean for models like Yasanori, McTavish, & Aionus: 

[yool1981]

2 hours ago, Kyle said:

Henchmen gain two distinct bonuses while they’re the Leaders of their Crew. The first is that, like Masters, Leaders can take three Actions per Activation in M3E, which helps them compete with Masters. The second bonus comes in the form of each Faction’s Effigy model, which has a special rule allowing it to be hired for free into a Crew with a Henchman Leader. This allows each Effigy model to effectively serve as a generic Totem for its Faction’s Henchmen, which further helps to ensure that matches between Master Leaders and Henchmen Leaders are balanced.

This is a very good idea ! This will probably add a lot of diversity to the lists.

However, if the masters are worth 14 SS as the spoiled ones with a free totem and the Carver is 10 SS with a free effigy, isn’t there still an imbalance in SS between both types of crews?

Or are effigied a lot more expensive than totems in M3E?

[Mason]

13 minutes ago, yool1981 said:

This is a very good idea ! This will probably add a lot of diversity to the lists.

However, if the masters are worth 14 SS as the spoiled ones with a free totem and the Carver is 10 SS with a free effigy, isn’t there still an imbalance in SS between both types of crews?

Or are effigied a lot more expensive than totems in M3E?

Effigies are 4ss, but... well, there's some other factors in play that we'll talk about in the future-time. 

[Adran]

1 hour ago, yool1981 said:

This is a very good idea ! This will probably add a lot of diversity to the lists.

However, if the masters are worth 14 SS as the spoiled ones with a free totem and the Carver is 10 SS with a free effigy, isn’t there still an imbalance in SS between both types of crews?

 

How much would you value fast on an expensive henchman? Because it gets 5 extra actions as a leader so it's printed cost is not the best guide to its comparable value as a leader.

[WWHSD]

1 hour ago, Jesy Blue said:

Non-Master models cost capped at 10ss... interesting.

Seeing as, from an outside perspective, The Carver doesn't seem all that bad ass, what will that mean for models like Yasanori, McTavish, & Aionus: 

I don't know about that. He seems like he could be a pretty nasty model to face.

If he hits his target with his bonus action it turns off any Df/Wp triggers that they have and any other of his attacks against the target are going to be on  flips. His melee attack is at stat 7. I don't think any of the models shown at GenCon had a stat that high. If it uses the built in trigger it's going to be doing 3/3/5 (4/4/6 if he has a second crow in the duel total) he could do a little less damage by declaring either his trigger that lets him attack again or hit with the execute trigger. Damage tracks seemed to be a little lower as well on the leaked models so what works out to be minimum damage 3 on an attack with a 7 stat and  flips could be really good when compared against other M3E models.

If he's close to his target they'll take 1 point of damage every time they cheat on a flips. Combine that with his tactical action it causes enemy models to take 2 damage if they fail the duel or 1 damage if they cheat to pass it. The combo of Terrifying, Feed On Fear, and Misery means that model near him that attack him will need to pass a Wp duel for each attack. If the fail the duel, he heals 1. If they cheat to pass the duel they take 1 point of damage.

 

[WWHSD]

6 minutes ago, Adran said:

How much would you value fast on an expensive henchman? Because it gets 5 extra actions as a leader so it's printed cost is not the best guide to its comparable value as a leader.

5 extra actions?

[katadder]

22 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

5 extra actions?

1 per turn. Leaders get 3 actions whether master or henchman

[WWHSD]

1 minute ago, katadder said:

1 per turn. Leaders get 3 actions whether master or henchman

5 over the course of the game if it's in play the entire game, gotcha. 

[yool1981]

10 hours ago, Adran said:

How much would you value fast on an expensive henchman? Because it gets 5 extra actions as a leader so it's printed cost is not the best guide to its comparable value as a leader.

I don’t get what you imply.

If point balance is done correctly a fast 14SS model (masters) will be more valuable than a fast 10SS model am I wrong?

Buh anyhow Mason has implied that the effigies as totems balance the difference in SS cost. I see no reason not to trust him :D.

It would mean that the NB retain a competitively viable Puppet theme, if this is the case and Hinamatsu still has a related keyword attached (and we don’t know Vassalisa’s fate, perhaps she did not go away with Collodi).

I couldn’t not be happier about that.

[Adran]

Just now, yool1981 said:

I don’t get what you imply.

If point balance is done correctly a fast 14SS model (masters) will be more valuable than a fast 10SS model am I wrong?

Buh anyhow Mason has implied that the effigies as totems balance the difference in SS cost. I see no reason not to trust him :D.

It would mean that the NB retain a competitively viable Puppet theme, if this is the case and Hinamatsu still has a related keyword attached (and we don’t know Vassalisa’s fate, perhaps she did not go away with Collodi).

I couldn’t not be happier about that.

You have missed something.

14 hours ago, Kyle said:

Henchmen gain two distinct bonuses while they’re the Leaders of their Crew. The first is that, like Masters, Leaders can take three Actions per Activation in M3E, which helps them compete with Masters. The second bonus comes in the form of each Faction’s Effigy model, which has a special rule allowing it to be hired for free into a Crew with a Henchman Leader. This allows each Effigy model to effectively serve as a generic Totem for its Faction’s Henchmen, which further helps to ensure that matches between Master Leaders and Henchmen Leaders are balanced.

When you buy a master it has 3 ap. When it leads it has 3 ap

When you buy a henchman it has 2 ap. When it leads it has 3 ap.

So a henchman leader is better than a bought Henchman. A Master leader is the same as a bought master. So you can't directly compare the SS costs and say My master and totem would have cost 16 point but my henchman and effigy would only cost 12 points, so I would be at a 4 ss disadvantage to use the Henchman as a leader because that doesn't take into account the Henchman is better now you made it a leader.

Trusting Mason is a good idea though.

 

 

[yool1981]

6 minutes ago, Adran said:

When you buy a master it has 3 ap. When it leads it has 3 ap

I missed the spoiler about this one. I thought Masters had 2 ap when purchased as non leaders.

I get your point now.

[SoylentRobot]

i like the change to Terrifying at the very least, still a threat but not quite so annoying to get hit by. I've had entire turns go bad from just one failed horror duel.

[edopersichetti]

Allow me to be the Devil's Advocate.

Terrifying is now what Manipulative used to be. Definitely a weaker ability...I realize Paralyzed is gone (sad face), so some changed needed to be made, but overall is a weaker risk/reward thing (I wonder what happened to Manipulative...). I like more high risk/high reward tactics - it makes the game less predictable and more entertaining. Now it feels like "oh, I failed - not a big deal", which is hardly a threat, more an annoyance.

Also, the change to Misery is pretty bad. This does not "preserve the feel" at all - playing Pandora is going to feel a lot different if you remove the option of papercut death which was one of her signature feats. She already lost her other signature feat - Paralyze. LOL.
A single damage which can occur normally up to 6 times (cards in hand) is not really "punishing". Most of the times the enemy model will be either further away (it's 4", used to be 6") or have enough health to completely not care about this ability, and cheat as he pleases. And no, it's not "hard to get too upset over the change", it's actually really easy if you are a Pandora player. Of course it makes people playing against her happy, but this to me just feels like watering things down because the opponent couldn't handle them. But I understand the new direction for this game is simplification, and appealing to new blood, who perhaps doesn't want to work that hard to solve a problem. It's a shame - the risk is that the game will feel more dull for expert players.

Overall I'm happy Carver is now a playable character, and he's not a bad model at all, just not that badass, as @Jesy Blue mentioned. @WWHSD The Wp duels seems kinda fundamental, but it has a stat of 5 which is mediocre. So passing that means he's less impressive; of course, the crew might do this job for him, but that requires a bit of a setup and it detracts from him being able to operate well independently. The attack is good of course but I'd rather have min damage 3 without relying on a trigger, as all decent beaters, especially at that points cost. I understand overall power level is going down and min damage 2 is now mainstream - again, this is a pity - so maybe that's acceptable now. Also, engagement range is 1" (again this seems now mainstream), Execute only costs a single card...it's like, every single aspect of the game has been toned down. It's a bit sad. For a comparison, a M2E Executioner is 1 SS cheaper and is way more threatening.

I'm a big fan of Wyrd and I love Malifaux a lot, but in all honesty, so far I'm quite disappointed but what I have seen.

[WWHSD]

1 hour ago, edopersichetti said:

Also, the change to Misery is pretty bad. This does not "preserve the feel" at all - playing Pandora is going to feel a lot different if you remove the option of papercut death which was one of her signature feats. She already lost her other signature feat - Paralyze. LOL.
A single damage which can occur normally up to 6 times (cards in hand) is not really "punishing". Most of the times the enemy model will be either further away (it's 4", used to be 6") or have enough health to completely not care about this ability, and cheat as he pleases. And no, it's not "hard to get too upset over the change", it's actually really easy if you are a Pandora player. Of course it makes people playing against her happy, but this to me just feels like watering things down because the opponent couldn't handle them. But I understand the new direction for this game is simplification, and appealing to new blood, who perhaps doesn't want to work that hard to solve a problem. It's a shame - the risk is that the game will feel more dull for expert players.

 

I suspect that if you pick up any M3E master and expect them to play like their M2E version did, you'll probably end up very disappointed. The Marcus and Rasputina that we saw at GenGon definitely looked like they would play much different than they did in M2E. 

[Flinroz]

1 hour ago, WWHSD said:

I suspect that if you pick up any M3E master and expect them to play like their M2E version did, you'll probably end up very disappointed. The Marcus and Rasputina that we saw at GenGon definitely looked like they would play much different than they did in M2E. 

Why are you questioning what is clearly in in depth analysis of a game this isn't even out yet?

[yool1981]

13 hours ago, edopersichetti said:

Terrifying is now what Manipulative used to be. Definitely a weaker ability...

Are you sure of that?

Terrifying works every time the model is targeted by an attack action, without the activation constraint that M2E manipulative had.

The penalty for failure is lower than previously but the card drain is here. If a model attacks yours 2 times during its activation, it has to pass 2 duels instead of 1. 

With a terrifying 11, many models will have to flip or sacrifice a moderate card before taking the action (Provided Wp stats in M3E are similar to M2E).

[kaintxu]

TO be honest I don’t know why so much complain about toning down of thing. Things being less brutal is not something bad, actually I think is a great improvement as everything is notnuterly brutal, there is no 1/2 hitting strong models, everything survives longer which gives a more tactical depth to the game.

there is no paralice, that’s good for the game. Terrifying being losing and action is enough, as they have to take it for every action, means they might get some hits in they would not otherwise, but also means more flipping and cheating. 

[Davie]

15 hours ago, edopersichetti said:

Allow me to be the Devil's Advocate.

Terrifying is now what Manipulative used to be. Definitely a weaker ability...I realize Paralyzed is gone (sad face), so some changed needed to be made, but overall is a weaker risk/reward thing (I wonder what happened to Manipulative...). I like more high risk/high reward tactics - it makes the game less predictable and more entertaining. Now it feels like "oh, I failed - not a big deal", which is hardly a threat, more an annoyance.

Also, the change to Misery is pretty bad. This does not "preserve the feel" at all - playing Pandora is going to feel a lot different if you remove the option of papercut death which was one of her signature feats. She already lost her other signature feat - Paralyze. LOL.
A single damage which can occur normally up to 6 times (cards in hand) is not really "punishing". Most of the times the enemy model will be either further away (it's 4", used to be 6") or have enough health to completely not care about this ability, and cheat as he pleases. And no, it's not "hard to get too upset over the change", it's actually really easy if you are a Pandora player. Of course it makes people playing against her happy, but this to me just feels like watering things down because the opponent couldn't handle them. But I understand the new direction for this game is simplification, and appealing to new blood, who perhaps doesn't want to work that hard to solve a problem. It's a shame - the risk is that the game will feel more dull for expert players.

Overall I'm happy Carver is now a playable character, and he's not a bad model at all, just not that badass, as @Jesy Blue mentioned. @WWHSD The Wp duels seems kinda fundamental, but it has a stat of 5 which is mediocre. So passing that means he's less impressive; of course, the crew might do this job for him, but that requires a bit of a setup and it detracts from him being able to operate well independently. The attack is good of course but I'd rather have min damage 3 without relying on a trigger, as all decent beaters, especially at that points cost. I understand overall power level is going down and min damage 2 is now mainstream - again, this is a pity - so maybe that's acceptable now. Also, engagement range is 1" (again this seems now mainstream), Execute only costs a single card...it's like, every single aspect of the game has been toned down. It's a bit sad. For a comparison, a M2E Executioner is 1 SS cheaper and is way more threatening.

I'm a big fan of Wyrd and I love Malifaux a lot, but in all honesty, so far I'm quite disappointed but what I have seen. 

You need to shift away from M2E-Paradigms. Once you stop comparing M3E rules to M2E rules you'll have a better time enjoying M3E.

So basically I agree with what @WWHSD said

[edopersichetti]

5 hours ago, WWHSD said:

I suspect that if you pick up any M3E master and expect them to play like their M2E version did, you'll probably end up very disappointed. The Marcus and Rasputina that we saw at GenGon definitely looked like they would play much different than they did in M2E. 

Lol that might be my problem. I love M2E and I recognize there were a few things to be smoothed out, but I didn't see any need for such a massive overhaul across the board. I'll definitely give M3E a shot, but right now it looks a lot less fun that what we've been playing so far - that's all.

[edopersichetti]

4 hours ago, Davie said:

You need to shift away from M2E-Paradigms. Once you stop comparing M3E rules to M2E rules you'll have a better time enjoying M3E.

So basically I agree with what @WWHSD said

That's the thing though - M2E was amazing, M3E looks just a lot less exciting. It's hard to shift away from paradigms - basically you're asking me to forget my previous gaming experience, one that I enjoyed very much. It's like being handed a Toyota after having driven a Ferrari for the last three years...yeah good car, but can you really expect me to be content?

I think toning down things makes the game just less "wonky", fun and entertaining than before. It takes away from Malifaux that "spark" which was given by the overall unpredictability, and things like a sudden Red Joker coming out on a negative flip and ruining your day - now +1 damage? Who even cares?

At least, my 2 cents. Plus hey, we don't all have to be fan boys - it's ok to be skeptical about things you love.
There are some things I like about this change, and I make no mystery of it, and in fact I'm happy to praise them. One of those is keyword hiring - it's a good idea and makes things more thematic, it was long overdue. Other include the fixes to vertical elevation, terrain, LoS, shadow etc. - all of it was a bit unclear in M2E. Other I don't agree with, and I'm equally direct in mentioning them. Personally I didn't see the need for the general toning down, is all. Even changing playstyles is a cool idea - but not if suddenly my master can do half the things he could do before, and do them worse. Again, just my 2 cents

[SoylentRobot]

23 minutes ago, edopersichetti said:

That's the thing though - M2E was amazing, M3E looks just a lot less exciting. It's hard to shift away from paradigms - basically you're asking me to forget my previous gaming experience, one that I enjoyed very much. It's like being handed a Toyota after having driven a Ferrari for the last three years...yeah good car, but can you really expect me to be content?

I think toning down things makes the game just less "wonky", fun and entertaining than before. It takes away from Malifaux that "spark" which was given by the overall unpredictability, and things like a sudden Red Joker coming out on a negative flip and ruining your day - now +1 damage? Who even cares?

 

True, but IMO the real exciting stuff comes with how all the models interact with the rules, not the complexity of the base rules themselves

[Adran]

I've seen all these comments the last edition change. Almost exactly the same, (red joker suddenly only doing severe and weak rather than severe and a second flip, Misery being toned down hugely and Pandora not able to do what she could do before. terrifying made rubbish, and everything in general becoming more simple. )

And Whilst I still like the first edition, I would not say that M2E is a simpler game to master. It may be easier to learn the basics because of some of the standardisation, but I don't think the game lost overall depth.

I feel the "theme" of the models stayed the same, even if the playstyle didn't. One of the most extreme changes was the dreamer, who lost his ability to bury and unbury his crew of nightmares, but instead learnt to summon nightmares. the tabeltop image of things appearing from nowhere was kept, but the mechanics around it were changed hugely.

Sometimes its the theme that attracts you to a crew, some times its the rules. So if you're attracted to the theme of Pandora, with her force of woes draining the enemy slowly, making all their choices bad ones, then you'll probably be happy with the new Pandora. If you like the rules focussing on the failing duels, paralysing and death by a 1000 cuts then you may or may not like the new Pandora, depending on what she does.

I'd probably say its more like being given a Corvette after you had a Ferrari.

So looking at Carver, his interaction between the new terrifying and the new misery you are looking at something that is going to be a constant drain on Enemy resources. You will have to pass Terror each time you attack, and if you fail, you will have to decide if its worth the pain of cheating to get to the duel where you might have to cheat again. And then when he attacks you, you have more choices. Its easy for the carver to hurt you, all he has to do is cheat in enough to tie after the initial flip because if you cheat to make him miss, you'll still suffer misery damage. That's where I see him fitting the Pandora theme (That I see after 2 editions of her) of every choice is a bad choice.

But until we see Pandora and her crew I guess you won't know if she is still interesting to you.