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I'd still argue that pass mechanics only really matter on the first turn.  After models get stuck in, they won't be used as much which will allow the larger crew to go off and get VP. 

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1 hour ago, Da Git said:

I'd still argue that pass mechanics only really matter on the first turn.  After models get stuck in, they won't be used as much which will allow the larger crew to go off and get VP. 

They also matter quite a bit  in turns other than the the first for scoring certain schemes. 

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Hey @Mason, I would like to ask you if there will be a new rule for shooting into engagement. This is arguably the most hated rule of M2E here in my gaming group. Maybe something like +4 def instead of flipping to see who you hit ?

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Or, you know, just get rid of any penalty to firing into combat at all. Given the prevelance of Ca attacks in 2nd edition that were long range and high dmg that didn’t have the icon, or didn’t randomize due to a clause, I’m not sure what purpose it serves.

I recall much more conversation about how attacks with icons just weren’t as good as attacks without rather than conversation about how OP attacks without icons were. Attacks without icons became the baseline everything was judged against and things that didn’t meet it were UP. The baseline didn’t become OP.

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2 hours ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

Or, you know, just get rid of any penalty to firing into combat at all. Given the prevelance of Ca attacks in 2nd edition that were long range and high dmg that didn’t have the icon, or didn’t randomize due to a clause, I’m not sure what purpose it serves.

I recall much more conversation about how attacks with icons just weren’t as good as attacks without rather than conversation about how OP attacks without icons were. Attacks without icons became the baseline everything was judged against and things that didn’t meet it were UP. The baseline didn’t become OP.

Kinda tempted to agree with this, mate of mine was a guild player and was constantly dissapointed with all of the gun icons in his faction that made it hard for him to project force while at the same time a ton of spell effects that didn't. 

I mean according to fluff and theme it majes sense, why would a blast of insanity randomize or be affected by cover and why wouldn't a bullet behave the opposite way? But it does make it annoying from a game mechanics perspective.

Though cover is thankfully less strict when it comes to utterly crippling ranged play or at least at a first glance. Do hope pistol actions can be considered useful now without having to require focus or a native + on the attack.

I mean melee ranges are smaller, but the range for moving and attacking something once has increased with melee, so hopefully guns aren't capable of becoming an oppresive winning gameplan either while giving them some more perks.

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7 hours ago, Atoli said:

@Mason

one question :)

whats Wyrd plan for Nightmare Mccabe box? Ale models go to TT? Guild completely loosing this miniatures from their faction? 

Thx for answer

I'd find it very odd to completely lose Mounted Guardsmen from the faction.  I'd think it pretty likely to lose Wastrels and the rest though.

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11 hours ago, LunarSol said:

I'd find it very odd to completely lose Mounted Guardsmen from the faction.  I'd think it pretty likely to lose Wastrels and the rest though.

I believe the easiest way would probably to change the Mounties count-as to something TT.

 

As for the outactivation thing:

Assuming S&S are well designed, you will have scenarios where the large crew will be superior (you need to be at various places or you need a lot of AP to complete the objectives) and in other the elite crew will be superior (killy scenarios, where number of actions don`t count but you need to kill models)

 

Also, remember its not that easy to make an elite crew as might need cache and I doubt there will be keywords full of high-cost beaters. Low model crews also are a lot more swingy because getting 1 RJ dmg can swing your whole game around.

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1 hour ago, trikk said:

Assuming S&S are well designed, you will have scenarios where the large crew will be superior (you need to be at various places or you need a lot of AP to complete the objectives) and in other the elite crew will be superior (killy scenarios, where number of actions don`t count but you need to kill models)

I completly agree with this statement. From what we saw (GenCon photos) there is, for instance, strategy where you score VP only if you kill more models in turn than total VP scored from this strategy (i.e. for first VP you need to kill 1 model per turn, for second VP - 2 models, three models for third VP and four models for fourth VP), but we can assume that there will be strategy when high activation number is more important than having more expensive models (remember interference?).

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The biggest question for me is how will you choose Schemes since we see suits on Strategy cards on GenCon photos but we see no suits or numbers on Schemes. 
How Scheme Pool will be generated?
And will chosen Schemes be constant for the whole game like in M2E or they could be somehow swapped during the game?

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18 hours ago, LunarSol said:

I'd find it very odd to completely lose Mounted Guardsmen from the faction.  I'd think it pretty likely to lose Wastrels and the rest though.

Well, if they have the right keywords McCabe can hire them out of faction, from what we heard so far

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4 hours ago, Sagrit said:

The biggest question for me is how will you choose Schemes since we see suits on Strategy cards on GenCon photos but we see no suits or numbers on Schemes. 
How Scheme Pool will be generated?
And will chosen Schemes be constant for the whole game like in M2E or they could be somehow swapped during the game?

I was confused, and then I went and checked, no numbers.   To be fair, we can't see the bottom part of the card either, maybe someone who was at GenCon handling the cards could weigh in as to if there were numbers or not and the photos just don't have them?

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6 minutes ago, Clement said:

I was confused, and then I went and checked, no numbers.   To be fair, we can't see the bottom part of the card either, maybe someone who was at GenCon handling the cards could weigh in as to if there were numbers or not and the photos just don't have them?

Feedback from someone who was on GenCon would be graet indeed. 

As for the bottom part and numbers - it might be so, but i see photos of 16 Schemes besides those which a paired with Strategies. Even with Red and Black Jokers we have only 15 numbers.

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Maybe we will draw directly from the scheme deck instead of the fate deck. Actually after they had cancelled suit schemes from GG 2018, there is no different from drawing the fate deck and drawing the scheme deck.

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Regarding Rollin Black: The biggest problem is that he is a Guild win. It would be worse to take away the Mounted Guard as well.

And I don't see McCabe being able to continue using Mounted Guard since he no longer has access to Guardsmen. 

Honestly,  they should change Rollin to Cornelius. Just rename his Mounted version to something like Stan Black, Rollin's twin brother who counts as a Lone Marshal.

Would this screw TT players who bought it? Yes. But currently, Guild players are being screwed (slightly less so). Except for people play both, people are going to get screwed. I think the Faction that won the box should be able to still use it.

Regardless,  I feel for whoever will no longer be able to use a Nightmare Edition box they bought.  

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4 hours ago, Rufess said:

Maybe we will draw directly from the scheme deck instead of the fate deck. Actually after they had cancelled suit schemes from GG 2018, there is no different from drawing the fate deck and drawing the scheme deck.

There's a big difference. I own a Fate deck.

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I would appreciate a random draw from sceme  Decks. Makes sceme Selektion a little bit more easier and more intuitiv. If you neither have a sceme deck (either purchased or self made), the App to random generate or an opponent who has one of those... well i don't know how you played before.

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16 minutes ago, Tors said:

I would appreciate a random draw from sceme  Decks. Makes sceme Selektion a little bit more easier and more intuitiv. If you neither have a sceme deck (either purchased or self made), the App to random generate or an opponent who has one of those... well i don't know how you played before.

You can play with the GG doc or the book using a Fate Deck to choose your schemes. I've played like that, and I've used the app but I've never used (or owned) a scheme deck.  Using a deck of cards that is already required to play the game to randomly pick something from a table in the rules seems more straight forward than requiring players to buy or make a specific deck that essentially does the same thing. 

It's a stated goal of Wyrd's that the app is not needed to play the game so I'm disregarding the app as the easiest way to generate an encounter pool.

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You could always print gaining grounds (or whatever) and cut out the schemes to select them that way. Or number them and roll dice/draw cards, or stick them to a dartboard or something.

Depends a bit on whether there are suited schemes or some other factor that skews the odds in favour of particular schemes. It seems the trend has been away from that the last few years though and if all schemes are equally common then drawing cards and refering to a table isn't the quickest or most intuitive way to randomise them.

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13 minutes ago, lusciousmccabe said:

You could always print gaining grounds (or whatever) and cut out the schemes to select them that way. Or number them and roll dice/draw cards, or stick them to a dartboard or something.

Depends a bit on whether there are suited schemes or some other factor that skews the odds in favour of particular schemes. It seems the trend has been away from that the last few years though and if all schemes are equally common then drawing cards and refering to a table isn't the quickest or most intuitive way to randomise them.

I guess I'm not getting how drawing a card and referring to a table isn't intuitive or quick. New players already have enough crap they've got to either buy or make to play the game. I'm not sure why we need to get rid of the ability to generate encounters with a Fate Deck and require someone to buy a scheme deck or undertake an arts and crafts project to make a suitable stand-in.  
 

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You still can use a sceme deck to randomly generate from gg or book. Or dice. But shuffling a deck and drawing from it is easier then doing the same and afterwards referencing a table and searching the corresponding scemes. 

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5 minutes ago, Tors said:

You still can use a sceme deck to randomly generate from gg or book. Or dice. But shuffling a deck and drawing from it is easier then doing the same and afterwards referencing a table and searching the corresponding scemes. 

Why use dice for scheme generation when they aren't used elsewhere in the game? Everyone already has a Fate deck.

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48 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

I guess I'm not getting how drawing a card and referring to a table isn't intuitive or quick. New players already have enough crap they've got to either buy or make to play the game. I'm not sure why we need to get rid of the ability to generate encounters with a Fate Deck and require someone to buy a scheme deck or undertake an arts and crafts project to make a suitable stand-in.  
 

In your scenario, are new players rifling through a gaining grounds or some other document as they play?  That feels just as clunky as a deck honestly, but I guess millage may vary or you're dealing with a brand new meta.

 

Easy fix though.   Just index the table as "red 1: Break Through     black 1: Power ritual".   Now you're good for up to 27 schemes if you put both jokers on the same scheme.

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