Nexus: An NPE like no other

[farmoar]

On 2/11/2021 at 2:26 AM, Vanilla_Dice said:

Did anyone else notice that for the first 2 turns that cadmus drew almost nothingbut face cards? Surely that has some bearing on the outcome.

its a passive for Russian players
"Draw 5-10 face cards at the start of every game"

[Maniacal_cackle]

7 hours ago, Maogrim said:

 

Oh, so you already did that. I will try to watch, but three hours is a bit of an ask.

So I would really appreciate if you or your opponent were to provide some written analysis on why the McCabe shooting approach didn't work out as intended . Or at least I assume it didn't

Cadmus has an incredibly strong front line (nests, husks). Between summons and nests, you have about 28 extra wounds (with hard to wound) on top of your base crew on turn one, and it gets worse from there.

Sure, the gunline mowed through a few things and even some important models. But the sheer number of wounds makes it difficult.

Perhaps a hyper mobile shooter summoner like English Ivan could do it xD

[Maniacal_cackle]

>.> I have to confess that I had forgotten that Will of Cadmus can only be used on a model that is within 12" of Nexus (or ~18" with ideal placement), so that significantly hampers the crew compared to what it could do in my mind.

I return to my original sentiment that mobile scheme-y crews might be quite good against the hive.

[Korrok]

3 hours ago, farmoar said:

this isnt the first time people have said something like this. seems like you are forgetting one of the core concepts to Mlaifaux is that you declare Faction and THEN Master, AT THE SAME TIME. what the 2 authors are saying is that it is a horrible matchup of Nephilim into Cadmus. You dont get to know they are playing Cadmus until you have already declared your faction, and then reveal masters at the same time.
 

I'm not forgetting anything, we even noted that this games master choices were made with the understanding that it was to test cadmus specifically and mentioned what you just said a few posts later. 

[Alcathous]

5 hours ago, farmoar said:

what people need to be looking at is how many masters Cadmus invalidates entirely. if there are too many of those, then there is a problem, as bringing any of those masters into a game against ES could mean an instant loss. can you have silver bullets to certain abilities of crews, sure. but you cant make a majority of master choices subpar-to-unplayable

I think this is key; if any master "wins" at master select against more than a couple masters across the game, that master probably needs to be looked at. One overturned master can stagnate the game quickly when players start to feel like their options are limited playing into certain factions ("Oh, you're playing Res, so you need to buy VS if you want to play competitively. NVB? then you need Dreamer").

Now, there's an argument to be made about whether games should be balanced around competitive play or not, but if it doesn't hurt bringing new player is, then tuning to high level play creates the best game overall.

[im_open_to_suggestions]

10 hours ago, Alcathous said:

I think this is key; if any master "wins" at master select against more than a couple masters across the game, that master probably needs to be looked at. One overturned master can stagnate the game quickly when players start to feel like their options are limited playing into certain factions ("Oh, you're playing Res, so you need to buy VS if you want to play competitively. NVB? then you need Dreamer").

Now, there's an argument to be made about whether games should be balanced around competitive play or not, but if it doesn't hurt bringing new player is, then tuning to high level play creates the best game overall.

Its still extremely early to be talking about balances.  Majority (likely all) of the data is coming from Vassel that although has players from all over the world there are still many top rated players worldwide that have not set foot into it. Wait until the world opens up again and allows tabletop games before shouting "nerf"

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, im_open_to_suggestions said:

Its still extremely early to be talking about balances.  Majority (likely all) of the data is coming from Vassel that although has players from all over the world there are still many top rated players worldwide that have not set foot into it. Wait until the world opens up again and allows tabletop games before shouting "nerf"

u can see recorded games and think abt balance, but u cannt see real life games

[Adran]

17 minutes ago, Plaag said:

u can see recorded games and think abt balance, but u cannt see real life games

Whilst that is true, I don't think that was the point. Rather lots of people haven't yet really had a chance to see cadmus in games. 

[Legislat]

The third game was really long. Both players wanted to be at their best, so it was without the time limit. It was played in two parts across two days.

 

 

[NoisyAssassin]

Any summary of that game for those of us who don't want to commit to watching 5 hours of video? At least the pools and score?

[Plaag]

2 hours ago, NoisyAssassin said:

Any summary of that game for those of us who don't want to commit to watching 5 hours of video? At least the pools and score?

6:5  cadmus wins

played standart, symbols

c&r, sabotage, hid martyrs, runic,take prisoner

i played not good, but somehow wins; it was my first victory vs dreamer( ihave tried 5-6 times against this master, but lose; 4 times with colette, 1 time with kaeris)

dreamer is broken too, but cadmus have more resourses

i had master, totems, meredith, cryptologist, effigy, ngatoro, archivist+cash, spelleater+cash

opp had 

dreamer, totem, 2daydream+pact, serena, stitched, weawer, madness, 2 dolls

i felt no apathy or frustration as i feel playing dreamer with arcanists, and i played against best dreamer in russia, and i think in the world at the moment

[aladino]

I'm pretty inspired by the consideration in the last video about double master with nexus, what u think about a list like this:
Nexus+totems
English ivan
meredith
archivist+flush with cash
effigy
spelleater

I think it could be very oppressive
 

 

[Vanilla_Dice]

On 2/12/2021 at 6:44 PM, Plaag said:

as not bad arcanist player i can tell that kaeris will do nothing there

I think all the pyre markers will say different for nexus

[Kharnage]

3 minutes ago, Vanilla_Dice said:

I think all the pyre markers will say different for nexus

The "end all conditions" trigger available on exoskeletal connection I think will give Nexus a decent edge in this matchup. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

5 minutes ago, Vanilla_Dice said:

I think all the pyre markers will say different for nexus

While I'm not sure that pyre markers will be enough, it IS cool that burning ignores We Are Legion. Poison and burning in general get a slight edge against this crew.

[Adran]

7 minutes ago, Kharnage said:

The "end all conditions" trigger available on exoskeletal connection I think will give Nexus a decent edge in this matchup. 

I'd be more worried about transmutation, but I'd see it as a win if they are using exoskeleton connection for condition removal. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

6 minutes ago, Adran said:

I'd be more worried about transmutation, but I'd see it as a win if they are using exoskeleton connection for condition removal. 

Oh dang transmutation is another good point. So that's another seeming weakness that actually isn't 😧

[farmoar]

14 hours ago, im_open_to_suggestions said:

Its still extremely early to be talking about balances.  Majority (likely all) of the data is coming from Vassel that although has players from all over the world there are still many top rated players worldwide that have not set foot into it. Wait until the world opens up again and allows tabletop games before shouting "nerf"

ooo, bad call man. never say that vassal doesnt count for anything. even if you may have a good point lol

 

[Plaag]

5 hours ago, Kharnage said:

The "end all conditions" trigger available on exoskeletal connection I think will give Nexus a decent edge in this matchup. 

meredith, hopefil prospect, lots of shielded, exosceletal connection and transmutation, also cryptologist trigger on bonus-the burning will not stack well and treasure map will remove some pyres; kaeris is not top tier master like nexus or dreamer

[Maniacal_cackle]

Interesting Dreamer vs. Cadmus game! Two thoughts spring to mind:

1. Dreamer plays quite aggressively. On turn one Dreamer voluntarily walks within 8 inches of unactivated Cadmus models, which seems far too aggressive to play against Cadmus as Dreamer.
   • As a result Dreamer gets a parasite token turn 1, a potential game-losing prospect right there I would imagine? Dreamer especially does not cope with parasite tokens well.
2. The Dreamer player says Your Nightmare is a garbage ability, which I found quite surprising. I'd rate it as his best attack (specifically because it can teleport Lord Chompy Bits with a mask trigger).
   • That's not the attack I'd have used in this situation because flinging Chompy to his death would have been bad here. But still, surprised to hear a great Dreamer player dismissing what I would say is one of the best things on the card.

One thought that springs to mind is that Cadmus likely takes quite a few plays against to get the hang of playing against the crew (to avoid possible mistakes like my first point above).

I'd be interested if there are any top tier players that have lost 5 games to Cadmus? I believe Kharnage has (or 4 games, close enough), anyone else? More examples like that would be helpful.

[im_open_to_suggestions]

7 hours ago, farmoar said:

ooo, bad call man. never say that vassal doesnt count for anything. even if you may have a good point lol

 

Thats not what i said.  i said cant use JUST vassel to shout that things need nerfed.  

With a few of the games above it seems that both players knew what the opponent would be using and tailored their lists accordingly which can heavily skew the stats. 

[Plaag]

1 hour ago, im_open_to_suggestions said:

Thats not what i said.  i said cant use JUST vassel to shout that things need nerfed.  

With a few of the games above it seems that both players knew what the opponent would be using and tailored their lists accordingly which can heavily skew the stats. 

and how i changed list in 2 last games?

and when i asked ollih and kharnage-they knew that i would play cadmus, and i didnt know their master

[farmoar]

8 hours ago, im_open_to_suggestions said:

Thats not what i said.  i said cant use JUST vassel to shout that things need nerfed.  

With a few of the games above it seems that both players knew what the opponent would be using and tailored their lists accordingly which can heavily skew the stats. 

lol, good luck

[santaclaws01]

8 hours ago, im_open_to_suggestions said:

With a few of the games above it seems that both players knew what the opponent would be using and tailored their lists accordingly which can heavily skew the stats. 

How is this specific to vassal...?

[Alcathous]

  

9 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Dreamer plays quite aggressively. On turn one Dreamer voluntarily walks within 8 inches of unactivated Cadmus models, which seems far too aggressive to play against Cadmus as Dreamer.

• As a result Dreamer gets a parasite token turn 1, a potential game-losing prospect right there I would imagine? Dreamer especially does not cope with parasite tokens well.

 

Haven't watched this vid yet; but I agree with this. Dreamer has no incentive to start an engagement early, especially into Cadmus. Your Nightmare, From Nightmares, and Lead Nightmare allow him to quickly reclaim any board presence he cedes in T1-2. The more turns his crew doesn't have a parasite, the better, and that dovetails with the Lucid Dream plan anyways. I know a lot of people don't like Castlefaux, but sometimes it's the right play.