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Thinking about it all some more, I'm pretty excited for some new sculpts.  Malifaux is my first and only minis game, and I was learning to paint on some of my favorite masters' boxes.  Also, many of my models were painted in huge waves in preparation for events such as Captaincon, The Nova Open, and Bragging Rights (131, baby).  Naturally, while functional on the table, I'm not winning any painting contests.  In fact, even though I kept us in the win column for games, my team took 3rd at Bragging Rights 2016 by only 3/4 of a point below 2nd because of some of my rushed models not looking so hot and getting me the bare minimum for painting score.  Like my second strongest 2E master, McCabe, I want redemption.

Enter the opportunity to start again on new sculpts!  I also have a sneaking suspicion that we are going to get the McCabe, Lynch, and Yan Lo sculpts from Broken Promises, and I find Lynch and Yan Lo's new art to be more dynamic than the old sculpts and the new McCabe art is super fun and fits his character a bit more for what I want that the Indiana Jones version, though I got a really nice effect of being a little bloodied and scuffed up from falling off of his horse.  So now, after painting over 100 models, I feel like I might just start being able to do this wonderful art some justice, and I really want a nicer looking Lynch.

As my resources of money and time are also tight at the moment, I still have an entirely functional collection to play the game with, and I can take my time painting any new models that strike my fancy.  Whereas before most of my efforts of building and painting were geared towards having crews ready for competitive play; now I can take my time and focus on the hobby aspect of the game.  That's cool.

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I am, personally, very much against the idea of "need an app to play."

Just because you asked for it, I will make it happen. 

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with allowing players to use apps to make lists in whatever fashion works best for them. I just don't like the idea of making the app mandatory. Some pe

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@Mason - I read what y'all have said about DMH. What we the player base will need to know moving forward (I understand that this isn't available at this time, it's complicated) is who will end up in the DMH and how long we have until that happens. We also need to know sooner rather than later if any other models are being DMH'd. We need to know if masters currently in the DMH can be expected to be brought into the standard set, or if they are out of competitive play for the edition (and, again, approximately how long that will be).

We need firm expectations about what the DMH actually means - and this speaks to WWHSD's point below. Does it mean 90% of nothing because most TO's are going to ignore it? Or will Wyrd be imposing some incentive for it to actually be adhered to (different tournament formats, etc)? 

We also need to have an idea of the intent. Because currently it sounds like masters were DMH'd more or less "for fun" or because some writer or another decided that's where the story would go. And if that's actually where we're at then I really do empathize with the folks who are upset. On the other hand, if I'm reading it right and it's a way to add new models while keeping the game viable on a competitive level then we need to know that. Partially so that we can plan purchasing if tournament play is important to us, but also so that we (I) can continue to be really vocal in defending the choice as it gets implemented.

I'm doing a lot of guessing and wishful thinking right now because I'm excited about the game for the first time in over a year. I think that the M3E news is overwhelmingly positive and I want the change to be as smooth as possible. The one shadow is the uncertainty around the DMH - about what it will actually, concretely mean to the average player next year and five years down the road. I understand that information may not yet exist, y'all were wrong footed by the leaks and that sucks, but the sooner we can know what impact this will have on our daily experience of the game the better.

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54 minutes ago, admiralvorkraft said:

@Mason - I read what y'all have said about DMH. What we the player base will need to know moving forward (I understand that this isn't available at this time, it's complicated) is who will end up in the DMH and how long we have until that happens. We also need to know sooner rather than later if any other models are being DMH'd. We need to know if masters currently in the DMH can be expected to be brought into the standard set, or if they are out of competitive play for the edition (and, again, approximately how long that will be).

We need firm expectations about what the DMH actually means - and this speaks to WWHSD's point below. Does it mean 90% of nothing because most TO's are going to ignore it? Or will Wyrd be imposing some incentive for it to actually be adhered to (different tournament formats, etc)? 

We also need to have an idea of the intent. Because currently it sounds like masters were DMH'd more or less "for fun" or because some writer or another decided that's where the story would go. And if that's actually where we're at then I really do empathize with the folks who are upset. On the other hand, if I'm reading it right and it's a way to add new models while keeping the game viable on a competitive level then we need to know that. Partially so that we can plan purchasing if tournament play is important to us, but also so that we (I) can continue to be really vocal in defending the choice as it gets implemented.

I'm doing a lot of guessing and wishful thinking right now because I'm excited about the game for the first time in over a year. I think that the M3E news is overwhelmingly positive and I want the change to be as smooth as possible. The one shadow is the uncertainty around the DMH - about what it will actually, concretely mean to the average player next year and five years down the road. I understand that information may not yet exist, y'all were wrong footed by the leaks and that sucks, but the sooner we can know what impact this will have on our daily experience of the game the better.

There’s not really too much purchase planning you can do for M3E until more inormation on model keywords and their stats are available. Depending on where Wyrd is in the development cycle, that information may not even be finalized yet. 

Based on the info that we’ve gotten so far, I think the only change I’m going to make is that I’m not going to buy the merc models or models from a master’s expanded hiring pool that I’ve had  my eye on.

 

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I only hope M3E comes fast. I see no point in purchasing anything new untill I see the final version of M3E with the keywords. And I think the majority of the player base think that too. So when Wyrd want to stay in the business - make it happen fast :)

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@Mason a couple of questions if I may. The hiring out of keyword penalty, will que it scale? It's not the same to increase the cost of a 4ss model to a 5ss than it is for a 11ss one to 12ss. Currently expensive mercs are very much preferable to cheap ones and at a certain point it's not much of a penalty at all.

So if Yasunori ends up not just being a damn fine Oni but amazing in general and the penalty is only 1ss, we'll be back to a fifth of the crew of every master being the same.

Also, any news on how books with tbe new rules, profile updates and so on will be released at the start of rhe edition? Would be a huge book if it had everything.

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16 hours ago, Kyris said:

Which is what I did the first time. I've been nothing but perfectly civil to start with. But if I ask someone politely to not use such poor arguments against me, and not to put words in my mouth and their response is essentially "Oh, I'M SORRY, Here I thought you were a logical person. my mistake for assuming you had sense". I'm not going to remain civil.

I do still hold that it is very odd to me that you care so little about the fluff you would be cool with the Masters not having names. It was legitimately an example I gave cause I didn’t think it was an opinion anyone would hold, and it would help us find some common ground. Basically I was saying, “Look, we all agree the fluff matters *some*, surely we all want the models to have names, right? So once we agree it matters some, let’s discuss how much it matters.”

But no, you did not agree, and you seemed offended I would put words in your mouth assuming you at least wanted the models to have names, which was a surprise. And then, yeah, I was kind of a passive aggressive jerk. You’re right about that. Sorry!

Can we move on? (And I ask this fully knowing you did not start this up again, so it’s not entirely directed at the person I’m quoting).

 

Ravenguard are very hard to paint. People underestimate how hard it is to paint pure black or pure white.

Also, I am very excited to see the new giant prophet Neverborn master.

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For information, below the list of the models in the former NB hiring pool that risk being put on shelves or do not seem advisable to purchase at the moment unless you want to dabble into other factions.

LYNCH

Old Key Word – DARKENED

  • ·         Jakob Lynch

  • ·         Hungering Darkness

  • ·         Gwyneth Maddox

  • ·         Mr Graves

  • ·         Mr Tannen

  • ·         Illuminated

  • ·         Stitched Together

  • ·         Beckoner

  • ·         Depleted

LILITH

Close to Lilith in Game or Fluff

  • ·         Lilith

  • ·         Cherub

  • ·         Barbaros

COLLODI

Old Key Word – PUPPET

  • ·         Collodi

  • ·         Vasilisa

  • ·         Hinamatsu

  • ·         Hodgepodge Effigy

  • ·         Bunraku

  • ·         Marionnettes

  • ·         Mysterious Effigy

  • ·         Stitched Together

  • ·         Wicked Dolls

  • ·         Lucky Effigy

  • ·         Brutal Effigy

  • ·         Arcane Effigy

  • ·         Coryphee

  • ·         Shadow Effigy

  • ·         Carrion Effigy

  • ·         Mannequin

LUCIUS

Old Key Word - GUARDSMAN

  • ·         Captain Dashel

  • ·         Master Queeg

  • ·         Guild Sergeant

  • ·         Guild Austringer

  • ·         Guild Guard

  • ·         Guild Hound

  • ·         Guild Investigator

  • ·         Guild Pathfinder + Traps

  • ·         Guild Rifleman

  • ·         Mounted Guard

  • ·         Warden

Old Key Word – MIMIC

  • ·         Mr Graves

  • ·         Mr Tannen

  • ·         Beckoner

  • ·         Guild Lawyer

  • ·         Terracotta Warrior

  • ·         Ferdinand Vogel & Beast Within

PANDORA

Old Key Word – WOE

  • ·         Journalists

ZORAIDA

Old Key Word – SWAMPFIEND

  • ·         McTavish

  • ·         The First Mate

  • ·         Bayou Gator

  • ·         Wild Boar

Old Key Word – WP <=4 (Most Common hires)

  • ·         Nurse

  • ·         Papa Loco

 

MOST COMMON MERCENARIES

  • ·         Anna Lovelace

  • ·         Aionus

  • ·         Hans

  • ·         Johan

  • ·         Lazarus

  • ·         Sue

  • ·         Freikorps Trapper

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12 minutes ago, Zebo said:

Just noticed that Von Schill's name is Leopold. But... Anyone knows which is his range? Captain? Commander? Captain Commander? Lieutenant? 

He is THE MAN, so whatever he wants 😎

 

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Guys, you do realize that new cards are coming out, so the keywords will be rearranged. I don't expect anything to be "shelved" really, apart from aforementioned Masters. I think that's just "panic" speaking and I don't mean offense, jsut the way I see it. To early to know.

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Keywords have pretty much become the biggest thing that people are interested in for both their current collections as well as any plans for purchases prior to M3E.

The problem is that since this is something that testers will comment on heavily during the Beta Test it's probably not feasible for Wyrd to comment on specific final keywords for any models yet.

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9 minutes ago, ebolazaire said:

Keywords have pretty much become the biggest thing that people are interested in for both their current collections as well as any plans for purchases prior to M3E.

The problem is that since this is something that testers will comment on heavily during the Beta Test it's probably not feasible for Wyrd to comment on specific final keywords for any models yet.

Which i a boomer as if you want to buy some models now it would be good to know that you'll have a chance to use them with certain master in m3e. It would make perfect sense (from business point of view) for Wyrd to announce Keywords assigned to certasin masters ASAP.

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18 minutes ago, nunorod said:

Guys, you do realize that new cards are coming out, so the keywords will be rearranged. I don't expect anything to be "shelved" really, apart from aforementioned Masters. I think that's just "panic" speaking and I don't mean offense, jsut the way I see it. To early to know. 

It's not panic. It's just that I wouldn't plan any purchase nor assemble / paint any of these models prior to the M3E release.

It is interesting to have the list of how much of our collection is currently with a question mark or plain shelved (in the case of mercs). I think this explains why many NB players are a bit reserved regarding this new edition.

Gremlins in comparison have their whole collection valid barring perhaps some of the Zoraida hiring pool.

Ressers have Nico, his totem and mayhaps Mortimer (3 models) + Tara and the void theme + perhaps Yan Lo & Seamus depending on how the keyword go.

Arcanists have Ramos & his Totem (perhaps Joss but he was not in as much trouble as Barbaros in the fluff so he may be OK) +be some Marcus beasts depending on how the keyword thing goes.

Outcast will likely be hitten as well. They already lost Misaki and if Levi loses his huge hiring pool, there will be a lot shelved models.

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5 minutes ago, daniello_s said:

Which i a boomer as if you want to buy some models now it would be good to know that you'll have a chance to use them with certain master in m3e. It would make perfect sense (from business point of view) for Wyrd to announce Keywords assigned to certasin masters ASAP.

That could indeed be a thing, because it will make people stop buying all together. If I have some "unusable" model because of faction change, I'll just trade it with my mates :) I'm sure they will have the same issues.

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9 minutes ago, yool1981 said:

It's not panic. It's just that I wouldn't plan any purchase nor assemble / paint any of these models prior to the M3E release.

 

Indeed, I do understand that part. That's what I mentioned above, Wyrd sales could/will take a hit. 

I believe things that were for instances, connected to Ramos, will be rearranged to fit other arcanist masters, things out of faction will be more troublesome.

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My friends who play echo a lot of what folks are posting here.  I personally might pick up a model or two for 2e continued play, but the rest of my group (who admittedly don't buy as insanely as I have) are basically locking down their collections until more is known. 

I have enough love for 2e that I think I'd be fine parting with Wyrd in terms of new stuff.  The card size thing is not a huge killer, but it IS a factor, as I consider moving from my hard sleeves to a thousand or more of whatever the new size is.

2e has issues, but it's solid enough that my group can likely abandon tournaments and do what lots of players did with D&D...revert to old comfy rules.

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4 hours ago, McSkip said:

I only hope M3E comes fast. I see no point in purchasing anything new untill I see the final version of M3E with the keywords. And I think the majority of the player base think that too. So when Wyrd want to stay in the business - make it happen fast :)

I can see that sales might take a hit but I think it’s a bit of a stretch to say that the majority of the player base won’t purchase anything new until M3E releases. People are still going to be playing M2E for some time and none of the models current range of models are going away. 

There are only a few models on my Malifaux wishlist that I’ve moved to a “wait until M3E” status.

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Just wanted to throw my 2 (regional currency equivilent in) . I was going a bit stale on Malifaux over the recent months as I struggle with remembering schemes  and trying to bluff what I'm doing/ figuring out the opponents at the same time as remembering what everything does.

Seeing that Wyrd is looking to address potential model/ability/condition bloat by simplfying and streamlining everything is a big win in my books.

Plus I'm hoping for a new Molly sculpt after mine snapped at the ankle at a tournament.... (Big thanks to a friend for pinning her for me!) I don't have any of the 'lost' masters though so can't really comment on that.

Overall I'm looking forward to the beta to give the new rules a spin :)

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1 hour ago, daniello_s said:

Which i a boomer as if you want to buy some models now it would be good to know that you'll have a chance to use them with certain master in m3e. It would make perfect sense (from business point of view) for Wyrd to announce Keywords assigned to certasin masters ASAP.

But if those keywords change at all between then and the official release they'll be fanning the flames.

Think there are models that are obviously enough in theme that you could make a pretty safe bet on the future key words. For stuff that isn't as clear-cut then it's a gamble, so the question is how badly you actually need that model between now and 3rd ed.

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11 minutes ago, lusciousmccabe said:

But if those keywords change at all between then and the official release they'll be fanning the flames.

Think there are models that are obviously enough in theme that you could make a pretty safe bet on the future key words. For stuff that isn't as clear-cut then it's a gamble, so the question is how badly you actually need that model between now and 3rd ed.

Knowing that most of the crews seen on the table are based on the 'crutch' models rather than what you can find in master's box then you really need quite a lot models to play it at even semi-competitive level at the moment ;)

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3 hours ago, yool1981 said:

LUCIUS

Old Key Word - GUARDSMAN

  • ·         Captain Dashel

    ·         Master Queeg

  • ·         Guild Sergeant

  • ·         Guild Austringer

  • ·         Guild Guard

  • ·         Guild Hound

  • ·         Guild Investigator

  • ·         Guild Pathfinder + Traps

  • ·         Guild Rifleman

  • ·         Mounted Guard

  • ·         Warden

  • Old Key Word – MIMIC

  • ·         Mr Graves

    ·         Mr Tannen

  • ·         Beckoner

  • ·         Guild Lawyer

  • ·         Terracotta Warrior

  • ·         Ferdinand Vogel & Beast Within

  • ZORAIDA

Old Key Word – SWAMPFIEND

  • ·         McTavish

    ·         The First Mate

  • ·         Bayou Gator

  • ·         Wild Boar

Not sure why these ones are on your list, the website confirmed that Lucius and Zoraida are still dual faction so I'd assume at least some of their current pool will be Keyworded for them.

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1 hour ago, WWHSD said:

People are still going to be playing M2E for some time and none of the models current range of models are going away. 

New Crewboxes contents are not known either. I really hope there is no Cyclop in Euripides' crewbox or I'll be very disappointed.

If M2E -> M3E is the same as M1E -> M2E, then if you buy crewboxes for M2E, you might end up having to buy new ones in a few months because one key henchman or totem will only be available in this box. For example, Nekima, Mature, Young Nephilims & Tots + a brand new and useful totem (only available in the crewbox of course)...

Honestly, the simplest thing to ease these worries is that Wyrd publishes:

  • A temporary list (pre-beta) of Keywords/Masters association,
  • A temporary list of faction/keyword/model association
  • A confirmation / infirmation that keyword hiring can spread cross-faction
  • [EDITED]A reassurance that we will not get "coerced" into buying limited added value crewboxes.

 

Edited by yool1981
Clarification
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1 minute ago, retnab said:

Not sure why these ones are on your list, the website confirmed that Lucius and Zoraida are still dual faction so I'd assume at least some of their current pool will be Keyworded for them.

There may be a reshuffling of the keyword attribution.

From the fluff blurb it is not sure if Lucius will keep the GUARDSMAN keyword for example (especially since Dashel is a master now).

 

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16 minutes ago, retnab said:

Not sure why these ones are on your list, the website confirmed that Lucius and Zoraida are still dual faction so I'd assume at least some of their current pool will be Keyworded for them.

Agree.  This list also includes models that have multiple keywords, some of which will still be in faction in M3E (e.g., Tannen is a Woe for Pandora, Graves is a Nephilim for Nekima).

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