Franchute Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 Hello How would you do "leave your mark" now practised production has been Cuddled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFOmega Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 It's definitely doable, we have a ton of options that are still good for it that were previously overshadowed. Soulstone miner can do very near the same thing, December acolytes actually kinda can too, though they probably won't be left alone for long If we don't use trap door, then Wind gamin can do it, Ice Dancers, Cassandra, Molemen, Firestarter... I'm sure there's more, we're not a slow faction. It's not an auto-take anymore, but still not too bad 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikodemus Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 Same way I do every night... trying to Leap over the world That or throw some cheap hounds at the scheme. Either works, Marcus has options. But really anything fast does the job. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 It's really Malifaux Raptors that are getting clobbered. They are still useful for preventing Interference and some schemes, but I wouldn't be surprised if that utility is removed in GG18, making them completely useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retnab Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 I'm okay with all of our changes. I never used the Raptor trick so it doesn't affect me the slightest, but i'll have to get used to Wind Gamin actually dying now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooky_squirrel Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 The same way I have been for months now. Soulstone Miner pops up end of Turn 1. Early Turn 2 it drops a marker, then moves; then the PP caddy activates and places an insurance marker somewhere on the table, including near the Soulstone Miner, or the other order: the PP caddy activates, drops the marker near the Soulstone Miner, then the Soulstone Miner activates later on, moves to where it needs to be and does what it needs to do (to include dropping an insurance marker). Fast-mover (leaper) goes forward, places a marker anyway if not engaged. If engaged, PP drops the marker >4" from the engaging model later in the turn when the opponent has committed resources to something other than that seemingly useless, distracting fast-mover. As for the Raptors getting clobbered... they'll still have use for deck manipulation (on a trigger) and supporting Marcus crews. I still have use for them in supporting other crews (like Ramos and Ironsides) between their various triggers (for shenanigans) and scratching things up (for Hand Picked Men). Wind Gamin needed to change. I think there will be some use in them now that might have unexpected payouts too. Especially if you use them as the patsy for Banasuva summoning or Kudra's personal upgrade. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorschlag Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 Mannequin scheme marker frisbee's. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikodemus Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 Raptor or two has a place so long as there's strategies/schemes that don't score off of peons. I love being able to throw a Df6 Wd4 model next to something important to eat up AP, consequence free. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooky_squirrel Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 Just now, Nikodemus said: Raptor or two has a place so long as there's strategies/schemes that don't score off of peons. I love being able to throw a Df6 Wd4 model next to something important to eat up AP, consequence free. Exactly, and they also provide some cheap activations for helping delay activation of something that's supposed to counter-punch or go as late as possible to scheme without your opponent being able to deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 I've never found either the triggers or the "resilience" of Df 6 Wd 4 even remotely useful, but to each their own. If they can't mess with schemes/strats they'll be forever consigned to the shelf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelich Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 But, but... raptors are 3 SS!?!?! can we afford to pay for 3 SS activations that still have a reasonable chance to do something beyond just activating? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelich Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 In a serious note, until I see confirmed changes to GG18 that effect them (being able to give scheme-y conditions to no condition models is the only "confirmed" thing at this point) Raptors will still have a place with me. Maybe far less often as one of their primary jobs will now go to someone else, but I don't see that as a bad thing as more and more options are added to my hiring pool every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFOmega Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 As long as they have an engagement range and To the Skies works as it does now, they probably will be useful. Engage a sniper, deny interference (unless that gets changed), engage a (non-leaping) scheme runner. Just being a nuance and an activation in general. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H4ml3t Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 3 hours ago, BFOmega said: As long as they have an engagement range and To the Skies works as it does now, they probably will be useful. Engage a sniper, deny interference (unless that gets changed), engage a (non-leaping) scheme runner. Just being a nuance and an activation in general. This. I also used them recently by placing them on top of Squat Markers in Squatter's Rights at the end of Round 1. Turned out to be a significant road block to my opponent. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFOmega Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 2 minutes ago, H4ml3t said: This. I also used them recently by placing them on top of Squat Markers in Squatter's Rights at the end of Round 1. Turned out to be a significant road block to my opponent. I didn't think about that. They could block LoS to an important Scheme/Scrap/Corpse marker too. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 I leave my mark exactly the same way I did before. Kaeris, 2 raptors and Wings of fire. Marcus, Duet, any one of our leaping models, Soulstone miner, spider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 On raptors: They still deny the always scheme so effectively that it's silly. They still deny inteference and headhunter. The trigger to look at a deck can be pretty powerful since it doesn't have a Tn. It lets you sift through crap cards or line up defensive triggers. Most enemy activations only result in you flipping two cards so you can also line up suit-dependent actions to save on soulstones. Pretty decent value for 3ss. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 3 hours ago, Ludvig said: The trigger to look at a deck can be pretty powerful since it doesn't have a Tn. It lets you sift through crap cards or line up defensive triggers. TN, schme-N! It doesn't have the suit so it's still completely unreliable. You could leap for that card you know. As for the other stuff, yeah it can do it now, but in three weeks when GG18 drops I'm confident peons wont be able to deny schemes and strats so its utility will be reduced to standing on markers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomezilla Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 6 minutes ago, Bengt said: TN, schme-N! It doesn't have the suit so it's still completely unreliable. You could leap for that card you know. As for the other stuff, yeah it can do it now, but in three weeks when GG18 drops I'm confident peons wont be able to deny schemes and strats so its utility will be reduced to standing on markers. I'll hope that peons continue to block the Always scheme. Having them occasionally useful means they remain relevant, and it's just funny to zoom a mobile toolkit to one side to deny Claim Jump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 1 hour ago, Bengt said: TN, schme-N! It doesn't have the suit so it's still completely unreliable. You could leap for that card you know. As for the other stuff, yeah it can do it now, but in three weeks when GG18 drops I'm confident peons wont be able to deny schemes and strats so its utility will be reduced to standing on markers. Gg18 hits in december, Idon't think anyone will run tournaments with beta rules. If they decide to release playtest with peons being completely useless I suggest you argue and playtest during that beta to make them see why that is a bad idea. I'm not sure why you are so confident they will do that but I won't push it. Seems to me like the original design was for peons to be utterly useless for schemes so I guess it's possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWHSD Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 2 hours ago, Bengt said: As for the other stuff, yeah it can do it now, but in three weeks when GG18 drops I'm confident peons wont be able to deny schemes and strats so its utility will be reduced to standing on markers. Maybe you've got some inside information, but I don't see why Wyrd would make peons unable to deny schemes and strats that require an unengaged significant model to score. Is there some issue that would be addressed by making peons totally useless when it comes to schemes and strats? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 3 hours ago, Ludvig said: Gg18 hits in december, Idon't think anyone will run tournaments with beta rules. If they decide to release playtest with peons being completely useless I suggest you argue and playtest during that beta to make them see why that is a bad idea. I'm not sure why you are so confident they will do that but I won't push it. Seems to me like the original design was for peons to be utterly useless for schemes so I guess it's possible. That is the reason I think peons will become as marginalised as possible. 1 hour ago, WWHSD said: Maybe you've got some inside information, but I don't see why Wyrd would make peons unable to deny schemes and strats that require an unengaged significant model to score. Is there some issue that would be addressed by making peons totally useless when it comes to schemes and strats? I don't have any inside information, this is all wild speculation. Currently two schemes can be denied by enemy models near the marker, Claim Jump and Leave Your Mark. Currently Leave Your Mark is non-Peon, I expect all schemes that care about models near markers will be non peon (Claim Jump will probably get replaced/modified anyway). I think quite a lot of people consider how easy Malifaux Raptors can deny Interference to be an "issue". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooky_squirrel Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 I'm pretty sure that Wyrd would not intentionally neuter an entire station out of people's playable models. If the GG18 strats/schemes seem like they completely eliminate bringing peons or insignificant models, bring it up during the beta playtest. As @Ludvig mentioned, peons and insignificant models are not supposed to be really used for directly scoring on something, and the Raptors have a mobility shenanigan that lets them reenter play and disrupt the board prior to scoring--but if all the schemes and strats are set up in a way where even denial cannot be done by peons/insignificant models, it could have a strong negative impact on taking non-offending peons/insignificant models. If the schemes are not designed in such a way where peons/insignificant models can contribute to the scenario win conditions (even if they're not directly able to score), yet can still be scored off of (e.g. Hunting Party) then they start to be a serious liability to play and competitive play will lean away from them as a result. Moreso than they do now. Models that have nothing to contribute are only rarely going to leave the case. Raptors have an interesting advantage over other peon/insignificant non-masters, however. Being 40mm bases they can block LOS to markers. They can appear anywhere and disrupt your opponent's planned first activation of the next turn, if not the strategy itself. We'll still have uses for the birds. It'll be other models that will feel that sting moreso than they do now. Sure, Raptors have triggers that aren't built in.. but for a 3ss model, those triggers should not be built in. Heck, baked in triggers on the Wind Gamin attack are one of the things that make them interesting for deck manipulation purposes. When I'm running Raptors with Ramos, I'm pitching Masks I don't need to set up the Tomes that I do need or even cycle that Black Joker out of the way so that nothing interferes with my getting 3 spiders that turn. When I'm running Raptors with Ironsides, each one is a 3ss activation that can help by scratching up M&SU models to get them on positives. Sure, there's other approaches, but in a relatively elite crew I would rather make sure that I'm keeping my activations up enough where I have the ability to affect the board state more throughout the turn. Otherwise, my control game is going to be hurting. If I'm running Raptors with Sandeep, it's for activation control so that I can delay committing Sandeep (and Banasuva and whatever hired beatstick is included) for as long as possible, so that I can put them where they will do the most to disrupt my opponent's plans while my hired Wind Gamin can run around scheming. The trigger for peeking at the deck is interesting, and if I have a low Mask, I'll certainly think about doing it if I know that it'll help my next activation (not as guaranteed as it is in Ramos Spider Factory) or there's a way for me to draw that card to hand right away. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCOLL81 Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 4 hours ago, Ludvig said: Gg18 hits in december, Idon't think anyone will run tournaments with beta rules. I was initially of the same opinion. Or at least skeptical with them being "beta". But there's already been resounding buy-in from players and TOs in our region. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunt.er Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 (edited) Sorry Edited August 1, 2017 by Hunt.er wrong topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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