The op cheat sheet

[izikial]

I'm starting this thread as a source of information on how to beat the unbeatable.

We have all faced things and thought either

That's no fun to play against

How will i ever beat that

I will never take that scheme

Well ask for help hear, anything you deam as unbeatable or just un fun post it up hear and hopefully get some feed back from the community, hopefuly we can make your play experience more fun

[MasterDisaster]

The Hanged.... Plain and simple filth. I hate them, their rules, their models and I hate anybody obnoxious enough to use them. I've never been able to face them (even with condition removal) and enjoy the game, they drain every ounce of fun immediately after deployment and I almost always want to walk away. "Whisper's From Beyond" is just plain OP. Sure they are 9ss Minions, sure they don't have many wounds but The Hanged are the only model in this game I truly TRULY hate. I'd honestly rather face a 10 model crew comprised entirely of Lady Justices than even 1 Hanged. 

 

My solution is to grit my teeth through the encounter and punch my opponent in the arm at the end 

[Fetid Strumpet]

Interesting, I find the Hanged, outside of very few specific applications, to be way over costed and neigh unusable unless summoned. Do you generally play a master the needs to heal in order to function?

[izikial]

What faction do you often use? Also pulling this one out my behinde, but I seem to remember sue being great against them, ill right why he is when i get home to my books

Also any stall model such as nurse's (I hate them but they work) hanged are typically an over costed area denial, stall model them self, so if you can absorb there stalling with a cheaper one of your own then your winning there.

avoid getting big 12 Ss guys stuck with them.

one of the best results I ever had against one was using a void wretch, he went to cut of my power rit on the flank, so I sent one wretch to the other corner and used the others to perma slow him and keep going for a glimpse trigger by focus biting

[izikial]

Lastly hanged are used for one of 4 roles normally and every faction has access to either good ca attacks or good stalling

1. Stop you going were you want to go

Use your ca attacker to punch through it or use your staller to take them out for a few turns while you slip by

2. Stop you going whear he doesn't want you to

If its not crucial then forget about it, let him waste 2-3 turns then block him with a 3-5 Ss staller

3. Bothe of the above

Alow 10 Ss of modles to hold/ kill him, couple of oxford mages, guild lawyer, freikorps librarian, nurse. Accept that as losses and cripple him else wear.

4. They want to shut down a particular model, with me its my kj or deso engine.

Just avoid him if possible, if not then fight through it, one opponent of mine took a hanged to stop my kj shenanigans so I waited for a high card had turn 2 and chucked everything kj had at him wial doing my schemes with everything else I killed the hanged and a bell and took there entire turn 2 worth of attacks then left him there to die turn 3 having got 3 scheme and 2 strat points mid turn 3 wial they had 1 strat point

The bell was helped into the ground by sue

[katadder]

the hanged is annoying mostly when summoned but my most hated are slop haulers, free heals basically takes away all the downsides of playing gremlins.

[Seregon]

the hanged is annoying mostly when summoned but my most hated are slop haulers, free heals basically takes away all the downsides of playing gremlins.

If you have a high ram and another severe card in your hand, one shot from a Trapper/Katanaka usually solve that problem. Focus, fire, trigger critical strike and cheat in the severe for 6 dmg.

[SpiralngCadavr]

Tannen's combination of Manipulative and Cooler (and potentially Useless Duplications) is pretty obnoxious. He's far from unbeatable, but I always feel a little guilty using him and a bit annoyed seeing him across from me. One of the least-fun things to see across the table.

[Kadeton]

I find the Riders pretty obnoxious. Their damage reduction isn't Armor so almost nothing bypasses it. Their mobility is ridiculous. You could hurt them with Wp-based attacks, but they have Stubborn. The Mechanical in particular annoys me - its summoning is great and it's got a nice ranged attack on top of all the other Rider advantages, and worst of all, I don't own one (I only have Hooded and Dead flavours).

 

The only effective solution I've found is to blow them away with Leveticus (surprising how often that comes up as an answer to Malifaux problems...) but when playing any other Master, they always make me groan when I see them across the table.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Mechanical annoys me as well, as it has everything, and the summoning without resources is just plain obnoxious. I don't get as many games as I would like, and often if I'm playing Horror based Molly I have to just accept a 1 for 1 trade of Killjoy for the Mechanical Rider at the outset, with both dead usually by early turn 2.

[Hateful Darkblack]

Last tournament I was in, a Union Miner (supported by a few Spiders to reduce Df and a good cardset) was able to kill Mechanical Rider on Turn Four with two rounds of effort. You can't use Df triggers against a Union Miner's Ml attack! I was stunned how effective that relatively inexpensive model was.

[Hateful Darkblack]

Getting sucked into the Brewmaster bubble.

[rgarbonzo]

Moon Shinobi are the answer to any Riders. Stubborn makes them on attack and the damage won't get reduced because it is a Wp attack. Took down a pale Rider with one and it was hilarious (well for me anyway).

[thebarbalag]

the hanged is annoying mostly when summoned but my most hated are slop haulers, free heals basically takes away all the downsides of playing gremlins.

 

I don't really think there should be a downside to playing a faction. What's the downside to playing Guild? Arcanists? One of the strengths of Gremlins is the widespread ability to trade wounds for AP, and Slop Haulers mitigate that, but they can't be everywhere. and you can only have so many without wasting all of your stones on support. Also, if the Hauler is healing, it isn't smacking your crew with a devastating debuff, so...count your blessings?

[Bengt]

I don't really think there should be a downside to playing a faction. What's the downside to playing Guild? Arcanists? One of the strengths of Gremlins is the widespread ability to trade wounds for AP, and Slop Haulers mitigate that, but they can't be everywhere. and you can only have so many without wasting all of your stones on support. Also, if the Hauler is healing, it isn't smacking your crew with a devastating debuff, so...count your blessings?

I wouldn't call it "taking away a downside", more like "mitigating the cost of a very strong ability", which I think is a valid criticism.

[katadder]

I wouldn't call it "taking away a downside", more like "mitigating the cost of a very strong ability", which I think is a valid criticism.

 

exactly this, a 3pt (if not summoned multiple times by Somer) model that can deal 6 damage at 12" is quite powerful but has the balancing factor of hurting itself. slop haulers remove this balance and also remove the balance of Somer summoning them hurt.

[Dirial]

exactly this, a 3pt (if not summoned multiple times by Somer) model that can deal 6 damage at 12" is quite powerful but has the balancing factor of hurting itself. slop haulers remove this balance and also remove the balance of Somer summoning them hurt.

 

Well, no. They remove nothing, especially not balance. They mitigate it, by spending their own AP, let alone the cost to take them, which would almost be two more Gremlins.

 

Nevertheless, your criticsm is appropriate, as they still are ridiculously good utility. I always shoot those little green sh...ts on sight.

[MasterDisaster]

Interesting, I find the Hanged, outside of very few specific applications, to be way over costed and neigh unusable unless summoned. Do you generally play a master the needs to heal in order to function?

 

The first time I encountered them I was playing the Viks so yeah, they pretty much rely on heals to keep themselves up and running. I don't play them as much as I used too because I have so many other Masters to play with now. For the most part it's the half health and no healing condition that really winds me up, at times it can be crippling and most of the people I play only take them specifically to use Whispers from Beyond, if Bodyguard is in the scheme pool I don't even bother with it. You bascially can't score it if the Hanged are around unless you have a metric tonne of healing and condition removal. Every time I hear Ressurectionists being declared I automatically throw Johan or Stalkers into my list because I can't stand The Hanged and their BS condition. I don't believe they are remotely over costed with an action that powerful. 

 

What faction do you often use? Also pulling this one out my behinde, but I seem to remember sue being great against them, ill right why he is when i get home to my books

Also any stall model such as nurse's (I hate them but they work) hanged are typically an over costed area denial, stall model them self, so if you can absorb there stalling with a cheaper one of your own then your winning there.

avoid getting big 12 Ss guys stuck with them.

one of the best results I ever had against one was using a void wretch, he went to cut of my power rit on the flank, so I sent one wretch to the other corner and used the others to perma slow him and keep going for a glimpse trigger by focus biting

 

I use primarily 3 factions. Outcasts, Guild and Ten Thunders. Granted both Guild and Outcasts can be OK at dealing with the Hanged, Outcasts in particular but if you aren't expecting them and don't have Johan or a Librarian for example you are buggered! You can't build a crew around countering The Hanged every game. I've tried using Sue and Johan to mitigate their potential threat and a Librarian to heal the damage done but that's all valuable resources being spent countering The Hanged instead of actually providing me with VP. Problem is they just get taken out early and then it all goes down hill. 

[Math Mathonwy]

The only effective solution I've found is to blow them away with Leveticus (surprising how often that comes up as an answer to Malifaux problems...) but when playing any other Master, they always make me groan when I see them across the table.

How does this "blowing away with Leveticus" work exactly?

[Adran]

Whispers from beyond is good against high wound models, and expensive models which rely on healing to keep going.

Against most of the models in the game, its not all that great an attack (compared to other models at a similar cost). Even against most masters, its an attack of diminishing returns.

 

They get 1 good shot against every model i buy with over 6 wounds, and thats about it.

There aren't a huge number of models that rely on healing.

[izikial]

hi there, ok my solutions to your issues are as follows (dont have my book with me again so i may miss a few things)

 

the brew master bubble

 

i find this challanging, and havnt played against it much, in my experiance and from what i have read target the totem first, he is expencive for a totam and it helps shoot brewy down.

 

avoid the bubble, on something like turf war it might pay to go and stand in the bubble in the middle to get your points, but for the most point dont go near it, unless you have to for your points then just leav him alone

 

it effect freindlys too, i may be wrong on this but i belive it effects freindly grems, so try and lure/pull them into it to so it is less worth it for him

 

kill him, once the totem is gone you can just unload on brewy from a far, snipers, casters, anythign with good ranged damage spread will take him down, but dont comit to meny ss to doing it, i seem to recall hans is amazing against him with his upgrade poping

 

stall the staller, any ranged stalling techniques such as nurses make the time waster waste his own time

 

get in first, i may be wrong on this as i have no book, but i belive he has to start the aura up every turn, so if you can go first and use a cojo style modle to push him away then it realy messes up his turn

 

last thing is realy week and not ideal but use you own negative aura, jakunaa (withe the damage aura upgrade), aboms, anything that can passivly hurt, stick it next to him, and make him regret standing there

 

Tanan

 

block him, like my answer for most things just get in his way, nurses are 1 ss less and stop him, void wretches can slow him and go toe to toe for 2 ss less.

 

get to him befor he gets to you, one of the best things against him is makign him fight out of possition, he is a turret of denial, if you can make that turret set up in an insignificant place then it means he is worthless, any fastish 6 ss modle such as ronnin, ss miners that can engage him early befor he gets were he wants to be are good

 

blasts, tanans best defence is hiding at the back, if he uses anothere modle as a guard such as greaves then you can shoot graves and blast to tanan withought taking the manipulative cheacks

 

riders (mech especialy)

 

ok so once again stall them out, some of the best suport peices in a crew are some of the best at stallign the enemy, yes riders are near unkillable, but if you dotn try to kill them then that dosnt matter

 

conditions, things like burning get around there df trigger, stack up the conditions (including things like slow and paraliyz) and let them die

 

wp duels, as mentioned by meny others, there trigger is a df trigger, every faction can target wp some how, and every crew should have a way to do so just incase. it may be a damaging attack, or it may be a condition, but every faction can hit wp

 

slop hauler

 

these are a pain, but withought them gremlins would not be a competative faction im afrade, gremlins are not winning every torniment and in my meta most people gave up on gremlins but if you are struggling a few thoughts

 

snipers, almost all factions have atleast one, finde that fireing line and go to work on them,

 

burst, anything you have to unleash a lot of damage quickly will work, ss miners/ cerbarus, hunters/exicutioners, young neph or 2, anythign you can get to there side of the borde quickly and then do damage, if there is nothing to heal then the heal is wasted.

 

go after they activater, they cant do much to you after they have gone, so if you leav your attack untill after them you can attack unhinderd, hopefully you can activate first next turn to stack the damage, a staple of malifaux and something i always try and do is make the enemy chose between giving me a point or saving somethign they like, i have on occasion left a scheme un finished when i could have finished it so next turn they have to pick between stopping me or saving 2 modles.

 

hanged

 

i have already said alot about hanged but just a little add on, i understand they take them to counter something of yours, so i find eithere ignorning them and throwing 3 wd non healers at them that will take them 2 activations to kill works and slows them down, or throw a curve ball, if your known for playing somethign that reliyes on healing, kj/von schil/slop hauling/ brewmaster then stop, play a game with no healing so now there hanged feals wasted next game use healign again as they may not have one, this also helps avoid a stagnant metter, i spent a long time playing one freind who had seamus and used the same crew set up, it became verry easy to beat them as i knew there tricks, then after 6 months they used karies and beat me as my crew had taken talored modles that now didnt gain there full use

 

also as I said with brewy, use passive damage, things like abombs, resser aura upgrade, sues burning aura as they all bypass terrifiying and incorporial

 

 

hope this helps some people, sry about spelling i wrote this quick

[thebarbalag]

I'm not arguing that Slop Haulers aren't quite good, they really are, rather that, they do cost points, they do require good positioning, they do spend their own AP to make up for other Grems doing stupid (ie damaging themselves and their friends) things with their AP. They can be killed, and without too much effort. I don't think that models mitigating weaknesses is a bad thing at all. One model is very strong for its cost, but that strength comes with a drawback. Another models can relieve or mitigate to some extent, possibly even removing that weakness. What you get is an illusion: the cheap, powerful, weakness-having model isn't the same model, and doesn't have the same cost when external buffs, like Slop Hauler healing, are applied, it is now worth more, and rightly, cost more. That's how the game works. Effective synergies are the name of it.

 

It should be possible to build an effective crew for any set of Strat/Schemes in any faction. Bayou Gremlins are the cheapest significant model in the game, and have some great utility, plus they sometimes shoot each other, take wounds to do stuff, or blow themselves up killing things. Slop Haulers take some of the sting away from that. So does Somer. So does Lenny. So does Bounty. You pay for those options, essentially increasing the cost of running Bayou Gremlins.

[Cats Laughing]

Now admittedly, the last time I used Slop Haulers, my Frame for Murder target Slop Hauler accidentally killed Perdita with a charge while trying to get her attention...

[rancor709]

Hanged are strong  but many bits exists to take them. Simplest counter that should probably just be in a list anyway is some kind of ca attack dmg action. Hanged wds aren't impressive the incorporeal and the terror tend to provide much of the protection attacking them via a ca keeps incorporeal for doing its job. If your worry about conditions and nearly everything has good either offensive or defensive conditions so johan is rarely a bad buy for any crew where a faction is likely to face to strong conditions. 

[Kadeton]

How does this "blowing away with Leveticus" work exactly?

 

Um, you shoot them a few times and take all their Wds away so they die. What part were you confused about?