Nagi21

That is completely using an example to ignore the entire rule. The definition of "another" was not limited to just one ability on one master and you know it.

So how are you getting your opponent to your side of the board if there's no schemes to get him to come to your side of the board? Pandora has the Raspy problem where you want your opponent to come to you, but you can just as easily be forced into a situation where they sit and wait for you and nobody scores (has happened more than once).

Disagree vehemently, as the FAQ/Errata of GG1 clearly defined "another" as "not the model that was the source of the action".

I think the biggest problem with Dora in Evidence is that despite being a central bubble master, she's one of the least oppressive ones. Compare her to something like Som'er or Hamelin and it's not even close in a midtable melee. So basically while that does play to her strengths, the meta isn't conducive to her because it favors those flexible oppressive crews.

Euri's damage is mostly focused on blasts and shockwaves. Wong's main damage is blasts and shockwaves. Seems fine to me.

No I meant Wong. I've not seen much good about him since he mostly relies on shockwaves (like Euri's pillars) and hear more theorycrafting than actual play experience from people.

Contrary to the above I would say NVB are probably bottom tier, just above Guild. While the schemes are definitely more fighty and less scheme-y than GG0, issues with the faction as a whole are coming to light, particularly with the GG1 nerfs and erratas. As Kharnage said, Dora and Nekima are basically relegated to casual fun games due to just plain being too squishy without adequate compensation. Lucius has issues due to his skill ceiling, but he's a schemy master in a GG that's not as schemy, so he's suffered as well. Dreamer is still good, although most of the hate directed at him is because he doesn't have any glaring weaknesses, rather than being particularly strong. People also think Lucid Dreams is insane (usually the same people who have Brin or Yan Lo or SS miners...). Euri suffers from the same squish as Pandora and Nekima, and the majority of factions have marker removal easily accessible so he's in the same boat as Raspy and Wong. Marcus I don't see people play much in NVB so I assume he's not great. Zoraida theoretically should be seeing some table time, but the issue with her is Obey still hasn't been clarified much, so whether she's good or not depends on your local meta's interpretation of Obey. Titania is about average, but her main issue is damage output vs things that are tanky (i.e. Rezzer) or things that keep you from using your main triggers (fuck you Brin). She's probably 2nd behind Dreamer right now. On paper we should be fine, but in practice, the other factions are just plain more murdery on the table and roll over 5/7 of our crews without much issues due to how central GG1 is and how squishy we are vs how murdery we are. NVB just has bad matchups against meta crews right now.

Defensively she's not as bad as some other models at the same cost, say Brin (Serene, Protected, Stones, Knew you were). I think it's just blown out of the water because the idea of a tanky NVB is verboten around here. Df6 is heresy in this faction. Offensively a 2" melee range on an 8 stone model isn't crazy, and Twist Reality is pretty balanced from a damage track standpoint. Not to mention that it is a major attack on most nightmare models, so any nerfs to that ability would be nerfs to the whole keyword, not that a stat 5 2/3/4 damage attack needs nerfs but it's Wyrd so... The healing is key and frankly unless there's some better healing, nerfing that doesn't change much unless they nerf it into the literal ground. Eldritch magic isn't a reasonable substitute because the condition removal portion requires a full AP, and the rest of the card is basically useless. Even if the heal was a 6 people would still take her. Even if it was heal or end a condition people would still take her. She's a crucial model because she is literally the only model in the faction that does what she does ( <- Pay attention to that part Wyrd). It's not we want to take her constantly, it's we have to.

Twins already have a 3e box so probably a 4 young box if anything.

Forgot Vanessa wasn't a Hench, although each of those boxes has Enforcers instead. I think it would be strange for her to have all minions.

There's still the henchman issue. I'm struggling to think of any box that doesn't include one.

They were in their own box in 2e. The issue is still that unless they put 2 matures in the box, its not an option, and if you put 2 matures, then what else? Three tots and a young box on its own? Also the henchman situation is weird because Hay already has his own box.

Unlikely since Tots are minion 3, and every box that has come with a minion has come with a full set aside from Hamelin. The issue is the matures have their own box already, and youngs are minion 4, so that gets weird with logistics. There's also the Henchman issue since Hayreddin already has his own box out with the BBS.

Apparently you get 13's in your hand quite often. It's a bad value proposition for Euri anyway, since bare minimum anything attacking him should tie his DF. So not only do you need a higher card than your opponent, you need a suit to go with it since it's not built in. Unless your opponent's hand is already decimated, or you start spending soulstones on the hope you have a high enough card to not get tied, it's not going off reliably, let alone twice.

Df 7 on cheap models is OP, and free cheating with bayou two card is OP, and anyone who disagrees needs to get hired by Wyrd as a designer apparently... Nekima would've had just as much issue, because Brin shutting down triggers along with stupid amounts of card cycling just causes issues with the crew. The attrition wasn't the issue, it was that there was no reasonable way to break the Somer, Lenny, Brin, Georgie setup with how mindbogglingly tanky they all are... Also the 2,2,4,4,8,9 hand on T3 didn't help lol.

15% of the crew for the cost of removing the main mechanic of the enemy crew sounds like a really fucking good deal to be honest.

Oh I'm not saying that 7ss models can't scheme. I've used everything from a Wicked Doll to Nekima herself to scheme depending on the situation. My point is that there are a lot of things I'd rather that 7ss model be doing, and even then it's not a dedicated schemer since it's main trick is marker walk marker (assuming it's not engaged). A lot of the NVB options with scheming is Jack of all (at best) master of none.

I mean the easy access to marker removal in over half of the other factions make it non-competitive already. Casually it's playable enough if you get a decent matchup but there's just too much counter play competitively, just like Rasputina.

No it's experience, on both sides of the table. Putting a pillar where it's useful for an allied model but not completly out of position is tricky, plus it requires a very obvious setup. The Candy bomb was the first (obvious) choice, but I very rarely see that one work out well since she gets too far up the board too fast often (first world problems). Seen it used for Euri but then you get into what I was talking about where big fist, thin skin. Long ranged pillars are also usually cleaned up since it's very obvious for setup again until later game. I think the issue is that shove wants to punish lone models around the table and pick off edges and skirmishers, but those crews are usually found in open games with lots of schemes, which is not what Euri does well at all as a mid range center crew. What ends up happening then is you try and use it vs a crew that actually wants to play close together, and while several mv shockwaves are nice, 8's are not too hard to fire off, and those pillars are limited to 8" range so you can only do so much with them. I think we can agree that: The crew suffers from a very common thing in marker removal. The crew is very card (tomes specifically) hungry. The crew has a very high skill floor. Put all those together and you have a crew that looks okay on paper but doesn't perform in actual games.

Wicked Dolls need help so that's actually 2 dolls minimum. Adze is a bit pricy, and more importantly he lacks a way to drop more than one marker per turn unless you go exactly in a straight line with no issues. The young has a bit more wiggle room on this, but again, I hesitate to use a 7ss model for just scheming, particularly a cruise missile like the Young. BBS isn't a schemer. Sure it can scheme like anything else, but it's needed as an early support piece, and a late game grow target. The faction really just needs something that can be more AP efficient without costing an arm and a leg, or get somewhere were your opponent can't react (see: ss miners). As far as the suggestions, the Bultungin change would be interesting since it would force your opponent to commit extra or risk losing in a scheme runner fight. Ambush or leap or something would be good too. Blood wretches would need more than HtK. The kit has 0 offensive or defensive power. What I'd honestly like to see is them with something like a sawed-off shotgun and reposition.

Worst overall in NVB certainly. The clearing of the pillars isn't even the worst of it, but it's a major thing. The crew suffers from: - Things that clear pillars easily (Bayou, Arc, Guild) - Things that are either flying or Incorporeal (NVB, Rezzer) - Things that ignore cover entirely or outmanuver them (TT, Outcast) Coupled with the natural movement issues of a Ht3, 50mm crew with impassable terrain and... well yea. Euri is a pillar generator and mostly support piece. It's not that he can't hit things hard, it's that he is lacking defensive abilities to stay alive while doing so. Making and tossing pillars is his bread and butter, but the crew suffers vs anything above Mv 5 due to this, and Euri has AP needs since the crew needs about 2 AP worth of pillars at a minimum. The pillars also don't do great damage either. Thoon is very good because of his attack, but he also suffers from two issues. 1) You can't arctic pull a model away the same turn you freeze them, so you have to have backup unless you catch something out isolated, or be very precise about your activation control. 2) Everyone knows Thoon can be nuts, and they all give him a wide berth, which relegates him to a fairly expensive area denial piece. Not saying that's a bad thing. In fact it can be a very, very good thing, but you have to know he has a very specific role to play and is not the end all be all. Geryon were pretty good, but the IR change hit them like a brick shithouse and now it's almost worth the extra 3 stones for a Mature if you want a big hammer. They have issues living between activation even with HtK because it's an 8 wd model with no other defenses. They require a lot of pinpoint positioning, and don't have the mobility to get around easily like the Mature, unless you incorp it with the totem. Cyclops are a solid support piece, but they die to any consistent fire. Min 3 damage doesn't work so hot when you can't close the gap reasonably. Frozen runes is nice, but requires pillars where the action is... so any pillar removal = 7ss paperweight. The fact that you need a specific tome that you can't stone for to make pillars is also bad, although old ways mitigates that a bit. Gigants are good but they have some issues too. Arcing shot is nice, but it's still an 8" range so... a little close. The biggest issue is that you only get one shot unless your target is within 6", since the boulder states "push models damaged 2" away from this model". Shattering shove is nice but I feel like it's not used so great due to the damage to pull it off and the weird spots you can put yourself into. Cave drawings is meh since destroying a pillar isn't an interact, so any model with a bonus action move or something effectively ignores it entirely. Pillars have issues with the above, plus anything that has significantly more AP than you (see: Collette). They also block you in due to the 50mm bases on all the savage models. The crew isn't unplayable, but its not even remotely close to competitive. Euri is on the same tier as Raspy and Reva, in that there's something there but it just doesn't click together well.

Depends on the matchup and what you're going for. Mercenary is like Nephilim in that turn 1 is getting into position for Turn 2 unless you're planning an all-in. I'm sure there's optimizations but walking a lot on T1 isn't uncommon.

Prospectors are 6.

I'd just use the app, but if you need single cards I think Drive Thru or Warchest can PoD singles reasonably affordably.

Example: Thoon takes his frozen trophy trigger, which is a once per turn trigger. Under the above ruling, if I obey Thoon, he is not the one taking the action, therefore the trigger can be taken twice in one turn since Thoon is not the one choosing or controlling the action (see "once per" pg.33).