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Ogid

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Ogid last won the day on October 20 2020

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  1. Lol, I've never seen someone so excited (in the good sense) for nerf haha. Well, I guess it's better than the other alternative. I still think you had your pink glases on. She was played all the time more for the good defenses she had (for this faction) and that she gave a support not other model offered; but those good defenses had holes (things that don't need to charge, jumpers, hand attack/trigger denial) and Eternal still needs a card, something not trivial with a lot of masters in this faction (12 Wds isn't accurate). And that's the botched part of the new profile imo; now models that can get around her defenses make her too risky to pick versus some factions/masters. And her utility was also lowered, but I adressed that in the other post.
  2. Yeah, Marcus needs some love in purple. Aside some problematic design choices, he is definitelly balanced around ARC and here in NVB Zoraida does what he does but better. He is fun and challenging tho; for casual games I do recomend giving him a go.
  3. She was definitelly very good; the main problem is the lack of other models that do what she did or that can offer support now when hard counters to her are avaliable; but everyone's best toys got hit so yeah, we'll adjust. This is the point I'm not getting... she is as nerfed as any other model, there is no "rebalance", just the nerf hammer doing its thing. I think we value his new mele attack this very differently; this is a fun gimmick but there are much better things to Mimic... a 2/3/4 attack with no damage trigger nor built in trigger isn't something I'd dedicate 18+ SS in a list to spam... specially when there are more holes to jump through to attack like having the target near of a Nightmare... Twist reality is an actually better Mimic target.
  4. Ogid

    Marcus?!?

    Marcus is a good master to play versus new players; it's easy to just focus on scoring instead of killing everything in sight and new players won't tipically go out of their way to counterpick him into mysery. I'd love to see his SS cost reduced and more SS moved into the totem just for this kind of synergies; that's hardly a meta strategy but can be fun and useful in the right game. Yep, however in the pool that was posted above the strategy might be problematic... those models aren't the sturdiest and the other player may deny the schemes AND the strategy by killing those. In Turf Wars some of those might need to be replaced for things like the Grootslang, the Scorpious, Bears... less nimble models but still able to scheme and harder to kill. Cojo works well in claim jump, but there are match ups where Marcus can't try to contest the center and that marks him even as a bigger objective that he already is.
  5. I aplaude your enthusiasm... but the only good thing about Serena change is the fact the devs are trying to make factions less reliant in must picks; almost everything is a downgrade from the last version. Better healer? No way, to funnel healing into a model now you have to jump through more holes than before and unless the other player is mindlessly throwing damage in your direction, that's way less useful to being able to patch up the one that the other player is trying to get killed. Stat 6 tickle through Nightmares... cute, the 2/4/6 was way better and while Pulled here and there is a good trigger, she lost 2'' range and a lot of tankness; which was as good or better to defend in those strategies and to defend other models; so she has less control than before. And while the defensive tech is still somewhat decent talking in general, she had her weaknessess doubled down; she is a easy kill for things like Manos, Shenlong, Seamus, Alyce, Cooper... The only thing I agree is that's the Serena we have now, no point in complaining; but there are few new posibilities here.
  6. Ogid

    Marcus?!?

    From these 2, the second one is the best for Marcus by far (Wedge is terrible with Marcus and the strat will cause an early clash in the centerline that won't benefice you... the schemes aren't bad but aren't sceptionally good for him neither) and it depends a lot on who you are going to face because the second one it's not a perfect Marcus pool; there are masters that can destroy him there. Turf Wars isn't the best strategy for him but isn't unplayabe (Symbols and Leylines are way better); Marcus can reinforce quickly different areas of the board; just beware of masters that can kill your models quickly because that's other way to play this and some of his models are pure glass. Assassinate might be a trap the other player falls for, they using resources chasing Marcus is good for you; getting the kill on an enemy Master with Marcus is possible but it needs an specific list and also outplaying the other one (or reckless play from the other side) so I'd rule this one out for your team. Breakthrough and Outflank are among his better schemes and Claim Jump might be doable depending on who you are facing (at least getting 1 cheeky point by racing the choosen model to the center should possible). Let them bleed is kind of neutral for him, the other player may be tempted to leave your models alive a bit longer to score this, that's good for you; and you have some control over it by shapechanging Myranda... but I wouldn't pick this versus most crews... with Marcus you either go for a quick kill or just control the other player with conditions and egagement ranges and leave him alone; long bloody brawls aren't his strenght. Picking Breakthrough + Outflank it might work in that one, but again depending on who you are facing. If you can, save him for a game with either Symbols or Leylines, ideally Corner deployment (Standard as second best) and with good schemes for him.
  7. They are still good, but some of their top notch combos have been tonned down. Colette set up a kill teleporting a model across the entire map the first turn distance was more than halved, the mechanical rider reactivating herself or other powerhouses is also over... Also between the Focus changes and the Kandara's mantra change, Sandeep also got hit hard. Serena is way weaker now and it's going to be a problem when condition removal is needed but the other player can deny Demises (things like Manos or Cooper for example)... but I've never liked a faction relying so hard on a model so maybe now we'll see other models coming or other adjustments where needed (in anohter year, that's the bad part tho...) But for healing I have never liked Candy tbh (maybe only to heal models carrying her like the Rider or a Mature) and she can only help with conditions removing Stunned. Her healing range is quite low, it's a normal action and she is useless charging... getting her in position isn't efficient; also I had to choose between positioning and holding Candy activation for the aura or activating her early (when the healing is needed) and missposition her to heal (which leaves her very open to retaliation and guts her control and potential tankiness). Not sold with that... If you have a list in mind that needs Serena but she isn't an option for who you are facing, just pick something more tanky or with their own healers; Fae, Puppets, Swampfiend... there are things that are not going to work anymore after an errata.
  8. Ogid

    Marcus?!?

    If agression is needed, Cojo is still the best for the role; but now we'll have to have a Wotw following him around to feed him markers (which isn't that bad taking in count you may use the aura with the mele attack pushes). I'd also consider Hinamatsu now more seriously. Those 2 might be more reliable now or at least eat up more resources if killed in mele. The bandersnatch is another one that got an advantage with this change as she inflicts distracted when burying. Nice to hear! please share your experiences later
  9. Ogid

    Marcus?!?

    Yep, these changes make those 2 models better, but the Focused+2 limit is a bit hit to Cojo and he still has a ton of weaknesses... we'll see. Maybe after the Focuslypse Marcus is a bit more playable.
  10. NVB got a few hits this GG, but after looking at others like ARC; I think NVB didn't got the sort sitck this time. Dreamer was quite good, it's nice to see most top dogs taking some hits; I don't agree with all choices (Colette's one for example seems way overkill) but at least things are moving forward. The lack of EXP nerf did raise an eybrow for me tho. About dreamer. The stitcheds summoning ban hurts but it's a bit countered with the other nerf; now that dreamer discard cards; the stitcheds are less needed to patch bad LD and puppets always went well with Nightmare so that's still a path to bring them. Also Elite Dreamer (few minions) was a thing and that seems to be the main strategy now. I don't like the 15SS cost specially after removing Stitcheds as summons, that probably kills him as a double master in most scenarios. Something to note is the Focused changes are actually quite good for Dreamer as he is decent at inflicting Distracted. Serena was hit hard; but when condition removal and healing is needed, she is still probably a decent pick (as long as there is no easy way to deny demises for the other crew). We'll see. The biggest change this GG is the focused one by far; that is going to change a lot the strats and roles of some models. Hinamatsu for example, that was already quite good, got a very big buff having an AOE Focused removal and being able to stone distracted with her Lure. And about Focused, NVB with the BBS still has a very good Focused engine, specially now that other big contenders like Tanukis or Toshiro got that option removed or weakened. Only Cojo got hurt by that, maybe Nekima as she could pile a good ammount of it between pulses and pustules. I'm honestly a bit surprised a change as big as the focused one happened without an edition change and with no adjustements... definitelly picking a faction and not cherripicking masters is the way to go... it's much easier to adjust to things like this. Again, We'll see.
  11. Balancing a game like this one is hard but after thinking about this particular issue more than once, the shared faction upgrades are literally the only way I see to balance well both sides of this crew. A NVB model that alone could put this crew on par would have to be very OP and the last thing this crew needs is another must pick. A mutation "fixing" this would force players to go for that one in most situations, thus neutring the point of getting the best upgrade for the scenario and giving him only a few playable lists... I could be wrong here, but I don't see those as good options. Also Malifaux is full of crews breaking rules, this perk would be just another instance of that and by letting only the out of faction upgrades on Chimera (or in chimera + beasts) and as a leader only ability, you know those will be mostly in models that already can use them so there shouldn't be much room to break things (instead of a NVB player getting a Mature with SSC or an ARC getting his Emissary or Kudra with IR to name 2 potential powerful synergies). SSC is a big part of ARC tho, so definitelly not in favor of removing/nerfing that upgrade. Also even sharing upgrades ARC still has the upper hand in SS generation anyway, with the Miners and his Rider may also help with this playstile by giving those models extra activations; that empower this playstile way more than anything in NVB. I don't have a problem with crews relying a lot of some of it faction's upgrades, but in this case it's problematic because of the dual faction nature of Marcus. It is specially important because the crew cannot rely on their SS users to do the heavy lifting AND it can also solve part of the crippling problems of the crew (unreliable, resource hungry and no backbone); other ARC dual faction masters also suffer a bit by it, but all of those may rely on their henchmans and Masters way more than this crew or aren't as restricted as this one so the other factions advantages really make them playable. Also this plus a few buffs could also give Marcus a niche, right now there are better crew for his good pools in both factions (Colette/Sandeep or Zoraida/Nekima for example; hell, even Hinamatsu could be a better pick than him in NVB); by giving him some really unique options (like Ill Omen+2 or high ping but glassy Initiates with IR in ARC), he could stand a chance to be a legit pick at least in some scenarios. However this is just the tip of the iceberg, more of his mechanics need some work; right now his crew tries to be a bubble crew, an scaling crew with the upgrades and a mobile hitty/schemy crew at the same time and it fails at the three. His crew gets steamrolled by any half decent bubble crew, any other fast crew either outpunches or outscheme them, relying so heavily on charges make counterpicks crippling and his upgrades loses against any other scaling mechainc (summons, tokens, LD...). And even other simmilar mechanics are clearly superior and more versatile (see McCabbe artifacts giving fast and working on OOK workhorses like Samurais or Jorogumos or Asami's Flicker being active from minute 1, not requiring so many resources and being immune to shenanigans while the master AND totem are alive). He needs to specialize a bit more, trying to be so good at so many thing will leave either an OP crew able to play every pool or an underdog like this one. Honestly RES shuts down Marcus at so many levels that for me Marcus is a big no no into that faction (at least from the purple side)
  12. I don't think NVB Marcus could be fixed with only a few NVB exclusive models, and even if it could, that would railroad the list into a few must picks to patch the holes... no thanks... Yes agree totally in that point, Marcus mechanics are all over the place and just doesn't work as intended. And about the summoning, it could be a way but right now he already lacks the resources and I don't think we need more summoners (plus if this new summoner is avaliable for blue, then again NVB is in the loss because no way to get the trigger if he is an enforcer). I'm not a big fan of this as it seems like a patch that forces NVB to use that one and offer little to ARC. I'd rather see both sides being able to put the other faction's upgrades in chimeras (and maybe also in beasts). This would fix it giving both sides of the crew new useful perks. Tbh I think Cerberus is at the level of the other beasts in NVB but maybe it's my playstile; it only goes out of hand in ARC thanks to that upgrade. In NVB Rougarou is tankier while still dangerous with the right upgrade and can do things the cat can't (like using that push to move defenders out of the way or being a model able to get rid of conditions in a crew severly punished by that) or the Grootslang being able to defend several places at once and control foes with range 2 and slow. The cat is schemy and fast, but go down very quickly even with mutations and his damage output isn't that great without being able to buy the suit and getting free positives thanks to SC. In a faction where every crew can grow a Mature if they want in turn 1 I don't think the cerberus is something to call home about tbh. And about the leap change for a wattered down version of it... the cerberus would still be a model able to dish out 15 damage to a single target in a turn in ARC getting SS out of it and being able to use SS to reduce damage in ARC while still having all the issues in NVB... I don't really think hitting that is the way to go, it'd make both version worse (hitting the ARC harder) without really solving too much. And yeah, leap in an upgrade would be beyond OP XDD; that is too good. There is room for both :). I have a ton of fun with Marcus and I really like how he plays, but at the same time the glaring weaknesses make him a suboptimal pick everywhere. So yeah, the idea of this thread is trying to fix his problems and giving him more viable lists without changing him too much or making him the new OP crew.
  13. Yes, that model is awesome; but the point is it's so awesome that makes everything else outclassed. Want to scheme? Cerberus. Want to kill something away from Marcus? Cerberus. Put a SC in the cat and it becomes very reliable killing things and getting back the SS used to kill those things. And this makes it also quite akward for NVB Marcus, anything that will help Marcus in purple will make it absolutely nuts in blue... Balancing both sides it's problematic with this one just considering how much the upgrades impact this crew. Cojo has a simmilar problem. Want to fight near of Marcus or have something that stop the other player form just storming in? There is no better choice than Cojo well stacked with Focused; and he has also a lot of utility with Toss and the marker removal. IDK, maybe tweaking the cat into an enforcer (only 1 per crew and maybe even of cost 9 to avoid Myranda shapesifting) and reducing it to only 1 will help to keep it under control instead of the trigger change... Yeah, totally agree; the first time I looked at his card I was also impressed; but then in the table everything wasn't that shinny haha. The damage is definitelly there, but it's too unreliable; the card draw aura is too small, favored the opposite playstile he should be doing and can't sustaim him putting upgrades and obeying models around; in a decent fight he folds like paper. I made him work with a Colette-like playstile, quite far for the hunter style he seems to have. I have to give other users credit for the AE in upgrades to be fair; but that will also need some tweaking; a simple obeyish ability could make a beast discard 2 upgrades; and upgrades are too costly to use AE all the time so this advantage wouldn't be that good. This is also tricky as it might push some OOK beasts over the edge if this is reworked... but with the actual iteration it'd be probably fine. IDK, maybe we'll get a surprise in the next GG and the devs figured out the perfect solution; but I don't have much hope this gets fixed soon tbh.
  14. I think I talked about this in the past... but my take would be change Saber Onslaught for another mask trigger that wouldn't allow him to stack 15 damage in 1 model; that plus SC make 90% of the roster redundant. Cojo is hard to change without destroying him so maybe allow his totem to be extra stones for beasts or maybe allow Marcus' call of the wild to make beasts charge ignoring the once per turn (or perform any attack not just charges), that's one of his niches. And Marcus feels like a 12-13SS Master... he could use some power shifted from himself (or some buffs) It's hard because there are some crews and factions that warp the game a lot... I don't think he could adapt to every posible situation in this game just with beasts and mutations, at least without significant changes. My OOK/Versatiles? Serena, Hina + WW (with bander); maybe some woes if I expect conditions (Candy/The Carver). There could be other good picks like Rider or BBS and potential double masters but my Marcus picks are very targeted (specific factions and pools) to avoid having to pick too many of those and face hard counters tbh so I've not explored those yet (and I pick him in those because it's a master I enjoy playing, not because he is the best in those pools). Marcus lacks (from my NVB experience) backbone, reliability, ability to respond to certain masters/techs, scaling, condition removal, resource generation and decent early agression potential. A few versatiles help with some, but not all the problems...
  15. To me Marcus has 4 main problems: Too many must picks; for a master that is all about versatility, he has very fixed lists if you want good results. Cojo and the saber are the worst offenders. Weak mechanics; it seems the devs were so afraid this guy were too good. The fact than an obey can make a beast discard 2 upgrades or that he needs to scale his models but loses agains every other scaling mechanic in the game is problematic; he is also very resource starved. An stunned Marcus is beyond useless... He cannot adapt; he works so bad with non-beast/chimera models that if the keyword doesn't have an answer for an enemy master, he is in a terrible position. Again ironic taking in count his theme. He needs to be able to support non-beast. Unbalance between ARC and NVB. Either bother balancing both sides or just leave him as an ARC Master and give NVB other master; he is only playable in very limited pools and he isn't even the best in those, right now even Hina leader is better than him. This would be the last nail in the coffin for NVB Marcus. This catched my eye... those 2 are quite different imho. Mauler is a tarpit with good combat potential (quite nasty potential in the right set up actually) and a decent lodestone carrier thanks to laugh off. The grootslang is a tanky scheme runner that gives good board control and that may hope to control some foes without getting tabled too fast if needed, but he cannot tank, carry the lodestone nor attack as the mauler.
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