Apparent Neverborn Errata

[Kirby]

A manual update was released to the Android 'Bad Things Happen' Malifaux app.  It's pretty buggy and possibly incomplete, but it looks like we (and other factions) received a few soulstone price adjustments.

• Beckoners: -1ss, now 6ss
• Lelu: -1ss, now 6ss
• Baby Kade: -1ss, now 6ss
• Tuco: -1ss, now 6ss
• Bunraku: -1ss, now 5 SS
• Hooded Rider: -2 SS, now 10ss (!)
• Vasilisa: -1ss, now 8ss
• Spawn Mother: -1ss, now 8SS
• Bad Juju: -1ss, now 7 SS

Several common mercenaries got price adjustments as well.  Base price listed without merc tax:

• Johan: +1ss, now 7ss
• Freikorps Trapper: +1ss, now 7ss
• McTavish: +1ss, now 11ss
• Burt Jebsen: +1ss, now 8ss
• Nurse (for Mama Z): +1ss, now 6ss

No other price changes that I've seen, and no mechanical changes that I've seen.  This looks like an early app push so it is buggy and, again, possibly incomplete.  Further changes may be announced with the official errata release.

[Redline]

Beckoners are great for 6, now there is actual reason to take them over Lilitu.
Not sure about Lelu, Kade, Tuco and Spawn Mother, in my opinion price was not the problem with them, it was rather their weird roles. Ill try them now anyway.
Rider is insane for 10 IMO, and I think he will become an auto-take in sertain strat/scheme pools.
Bunraku seem great, but i have never played or faced them so not sure how great exactly. 
No strong opinion about Vas and Bad Juju.

[Da Git]

6 minutes ago, Redline said:

Beckoners are great for 6, now there is actual reason to take them over Lilitu.
Not sure about Lelu, Kade, Tuco and Spawn Mother, in my opinion price was not the problem with them, it was rather their weird roles. Ill try them now anyway.
Rider is insane for 10 IMO, and I think he will become an auto-take in sertain strat/scheme pools.
Bunraku seem great, but i have never played or faced them so not sure how great exactly. 
No strong opinion about the Vas and Bad Juju.

Agree with a lot of this...

Love the price drop Beckoners... it's what they needed!

Agree about the price not being the right way to fix all things... For example, for Vas there were so many more interesting ways this could have been done rather than a price drop.

That said, I do think dropping Lelu to 6 was the right call...

I don't think the change to Tuco are going to change too many people's minds... If you didn't like him before, you're probably still not going to but if you did, you'll be over the moon! 

For Kade, it now means I can add Depression in for the same cost, so I'm quite happy there!

No strong opinions on the others... Bad Juju probably wanted a higher min than a price drop though...

Hooded looks great at 10ss!  I think he'll be seeing a lot more table time!

[Kirby]

- I agree, Beckoners getting a price drop gives us reason to take them over Lilitu in general situations.  It's also nice for using Illuminated with Collodi since a 6ss Minion Lure that further enables a common Personal Puppet target is rather nice.

- Lelu at 6ss along with his 0ss upgrade for card cycling is decent and helps our card-hungry masters like Dreamer.  Bonus for Dreamer in that he heals and can summon Lilitu.  Not really a direct replacement for things, but having a moderate beater with some card recursion isn't a bad thing.  Can also play nicely with other Pounce models like the Rougarou.

- Tuco at 6ss is plenty solid.  From the Shadows, decent gun with blasts, and can carry an upgrade.  Blasting away Ramos's early spiders while ignoring their armor is rather nice.  Between his own price drop and the Trapper being 8ss for us, I think he can do some good work and doesn't have much competition for the role.

- Baby Kade means you can add Depression to bring back up to prior cost but can guarantee triggers.  Not sure that's enough to make people take him more, but is definitely interesting and adds some reliability to the little tike.

- Hooded at 10ss is fantastic!  Especially with Serena Bowman coming out soon to make him a Nightmare and give From the Shadows?  He's definitely going to see play more often.  Movement for our crew during early turns and a flanking murderer Turn 3 onward?  Good stuff.

- Vasilisa and Spawn Mother I don't have strong feelings about.  Price reduction is nice, and for Spawn Mother it helps mitigate the Will o' the Wisp tax to make her useful at anything, but they're both still in a funky spot as far as role is concerned.

- Bad Juju at 7ss is pretty darn solid, but Zoraida has a lot of options and her AP control just got a lot better so we'll see what happens.

- Bunraku at 5ss is certainly better than directly competing against Stitched in cost, but I still think their Snatch range is too short and without the follow-up attack trigger built in they're still low damage, low reliability models.  Granted they're only 5ss now, so that's not as big of a deal.  I'll give them a shot, might be surprised.

 

[Aegnor]

For Vasi i don't think the cost drop will make her be played more often. You almost never take her without her upgrade anyway so 10 or 11ss won't solve her main problem of only 6 wounds. +2 Wound instead of the price drop would have been so much better.

[Kirby]

I don't think +2 wounds would even save her.  It'd help a bit, sure, but she doesn't do enough for the crew to bring along.  Her debuffs are her "thing", but none of them are really strong enough to overcome just applying the best condition: Dead.  If her Obey had the Mask built in, that'd certainly help.  Of course, then she'd be Obey on a stick, so I don't know that Wyrd wants to go that route.

[Aegnor]

i saw someone suggest to drop twist and put a build in mask when targeting puppet or construct with obey. could be nice. Make her attack ranged or give her something to survive in melee could also do it. Rigth now she is supposed to go in melee against beatstick with only def 7 and not buildin push trigger to stay alive.

[Pikciwok]

6 hours ago, Kirby said:

- Hooded at 10ss is fantastic!  Especially with Serena Bowman coming out soon to make him a Nightmare and give From the Shadows?  He's definitely going to see play more often.  Movement for our crew during early turns and a flanking murderer Turn 3 onward?  Good stuff.

I don't get it. You want to forward deploy a model, whose defensive and offensive abilities increase over time? Why? To make it easier for an opponent to kill it in turn one?

[necroon]

Happy with these. The only standouts for me are Spawn Mother, Vasalisa, and Bad JuJu.

Where Spawn Mother and Vasalisa are just a tad too expensive for what they do (or try to do) but they may at least make it back into my case for casual games. Bad JuJu would be perfect if he was able to get unimpeded somehow: Either as a 0, added to his card, or added to Eternal Fiend. 

Overall quite pleased with not only NB but the adjustments on the whole (Keeping in mind that Books 1 and 2 were the focal point). Good job keeping it real, Wyrd. 2018 is looking to be a good year to 'Faux!

[Cedar]

21 minutes ago, Pikciwok said:

I don't get it. You want to forward deploy a model, whose defensive and offensive abilities increase over time? Why? To make it easier for an opponent to kill it in turn one?

What is more important - Ms. Bowmans upgrade causes model to become Nightmare, which makes Hooded Rider legal target for Dreamers Empty Night Action.

[daniello_s]

Yeah but Rider wants to be at the front of the things (turn 2 earliest and turn 3 definitely) not to be baby sitted by the... baby

 

[-Loki-]

I already liked Lelu, he was just a bit expensive. With his 0ss upgrade at 6ss he looks solid, so Ill be giving him a go. I almost always use Kade with Pandroa as a backup physical beater, so 6ss is good. My Pandora crews are usually down to the wire on ss, so giving her an extra cache is nice. I'm a big Bunraku fan and use them with Collodi, so dropping in cost is nice. Bad JuJu going to 7ss is super.

Overall I'm happy with the changes. I wish they were more extensive and did more than ss changes outside of a few models, but I'm excited for what this does to list building.

[Kirby]

So... just want to point out that Bad Juju now costs as much as a Silurid.  That's just silly to me.  They have totally different roles, but Terrifying 13, decent damage track, Landslide, and the potential of recursion seems really strong.  But hey, apparently not strong enough at 8ss otherwise we'd see it more often.

[LexLock]

6 minutes ago, Kirby said:

So... just want to point out that Bad Juju now costs as much as a Silurid.  That's just silly to me.  They have totally different roles, but Terrifying 13, decent damage track, Landslide, and the potential of recursion seems really strong.  But hey, apparently not strong enough at 8ss otherwise we'd see it more often.

I feel it's more like Bad Juju went from 10 stones to 9 stones because when would you ever take him without eternal fiend?.

[Dominion]

Sorry, was meant for the general forum

 

[chryspainthemum]

23 hours ago, Kirby said:

So... just want to point out that Bad Juju now costs as much as a Silurid.  That's just silly to me.  They have totally different roles, but Terrifying 13, decent damage track, Landslide, and the potential of recursion seems really strong.  But hey, apparently not strong enough at 8ss otherwise we'd see it more often.

I think the other thing (in addition to Eternal Fiend being essentially stapled on) is that Silurids aren't really worth the 7ss now. I mean, they were great for that cost at one point, but as the newer models have come out in books 4 and 5, we've seen that you can get a lot more for 7ss.

 

Or maybe they are, I dunno, I didn't design this game.

[Kirby]

You're not wrong.  It's the problem of many older Malifaux models and their efficiency-per-soulstone being made for book schemes rather than the Gaining Grounds schemes.  Newer models (in general) have more multi-function abilities such as dropping schemes while attacking, movement abilities baked into other actions, etc.  There are also higher minimum damages, more baked in access to  attack flips, and various other things.  Makes it tough to quantify the older models because it's not like they got explicitly worse, it's just that more efficient options came available.

[Vorschlag]

Silurids are a concern, compared to their thunders counterpart they are sub-par but as they are still very good at scoring vp there is some division of opinions on them.

[-Loki-]

20 minutes ago, chryspainthemum said:

I think the other thing (in addition to Eternal Fiend being essentially stapled on) is that Silurids aren't really worth the 7ss now. I mean, they were great for that cost at one point, but as the newer models have come out in books 4 and 5, we've seen that you can get a lot more for 7ss.

 

Or maybe they are, I dunno, I didn't design this game.

Depends what you want them to do for that 7ss. They're scheme runners, not beaters. The 7ss range doesn't have other scheme runners for Neverborn, and the other scheme runners have their own issues (Tots are dependant on having masks in hand that you can afford to throw away and Insidious Madnesses have an extreme weakness to Ca actions). Silurids are a tougher scheme runner than both, and with Leap they can drop a scheme marker while moving almost as far as a double move from a Madness or further without dropping a scheme.

They could probably drop to 6ss but they're not hurting that much at 7ss. They have a role that others in the points bracket don't do better, which is hard to say for some other models in the 7ss bracket.

[Math Mathonwy]

On ‎7‎.‎1‎.‎2018 at 5:49 AM, LexLock said:

I feel it's more like Bad Juju went from 10 stones to 9 stones because when would you ever take him without eternal fiend?.

This kinda got me thinking. Eternal Fiend used to be a 20% price increase over the base cost while now it's a 29% price increase. I wonder whether it would make sense to take a naked Bad Juju these days under some circumstances?

[Pikciwok]

Juju's problem is that what defines it as a unique model is the ability on its upgrade card.

[PositronMike]

42 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

This kinda got me thinking. Eternal Fiend used to be a 20% price increase over the base cost while now it's a 29% price increase. I wonder whether it would make sense to take a naked Bad Juju these days under some circumstances?

I think Juju now becomes much more of an option in Gremlins where he can't take Eternal Fiend. Juju at 7 makes a very interesting option for Zoraida over some of the more standard Gremlin choices especially with the change to Franc and Burt.

[SAYNE]

@PositronMike huh, never thought of that, can certainly see the benefits although that means you have to take tarot reading iirc, and Zoraida is becoming more and more slot hungry. Also, for Gremlins, he's terribly slow, although a Trixie could walk him up a bit (which just sounds silly in concept). But I can see him being a nice cheap Loss blocker and ball of wounds, I'm just not sure if it would ever come up in game. Now that Raphael is 6 (7 cuz dirty cheater) you might as well use him instead. Faster and with a significantly higher damage potential. 

[Vorschlag]

He adds terrifying which can allow for paralyze via obey,  plus "dirty cheater" and "hide in the mud" seem very fitting.