SAYNE

Bayou is the strongest. Ask any distillery! Somer is a challenging master to start, but he is my first love too. Definitely has a steep learning curve. I recommend grabbing some of the Bayou Versatile models (you can find them in the FREE M3E app or the website), to sub in once you understand the crews strengths and weaknesses. For Somer I recommend the Lucky Emissary and Gluttony of the Crossroads Seven depending on what you're trying to do with your lists Good luck and don't be discouraged! If you are, have a drink or six and make your own luck. Malifaux is a tough game to grasp, but the payoff is so rewarding.

I actually noticed this myself, was planning on running Somer with Gluttony and 2 Criers. The ability to push Gluttony around with For Whom the Bell Tolls for Grim Feast is nice, barely has to spend time walking. The neg to WP duels is brutal too, for all the Lures. And even if they "kill" a crier, Somer blows the new gremlin up, Promotes another, and sends it back in. And now there's another Corpse.

Also don't forget that Brewmaster has a large "audible" list in the construct side. Mecha Porkchop, Cooper, Whiskey Gamin and such can make other players get very confused why they're suddenly playing against a Drunk Hoffman crew with all the armor you can bring. Always try to play close to your opponent a side of the board (except maybe in reckoning) since most strats or schemes want you to be there anyway. Lastly, winning is just as much knowing the enemy. If you hear terrain markers, consider the emissary. Lots of shooting? Bring stealth or armor. Heavy beaters? Try to disable or waste their activations. Good luck! And keep on that bender!

I'm still trying to piece this crew together as a whole still, I think it's probably the most versatile keyword in the faction given how large Somers toolbox is. Great anti-scheme (lots of obeys makes opponent just undo their schemes). I could see some play with Wong and a Bokor too, since you can pressure their hand hard, plus obeys for more healing. Reckoning might be the only thing I would be hesitant in unless you accept giving up points on the strat. Somer was likely the most changed Bayou crew up until the very end of beta, and he had a rather tumultuous journey throughout. Criers used to be absolutely broken.

I'm not a big NB player but blasting and incidental damage is good too as Shenlong likes to bubble and with all the focused they can be really hard to hit normally

Not sure if this post is dead, been experimenting with some "totem pole" markers with different colored beads that work out pretty nicely for non binary conditions. Red beads for burning, green for poison, purple for injured. Different types of beads for the +3 burning/poison for easier "at a glance" play. Plus they're easy to make ( just cut a dowel and glue to any kind of small marker or base

I'm confident Ulix new box will have multiple hog whisperers, those are gonna be first purchases most likely. Make sure you've got a war pig or 2, but you can play well with any of the big pigs after that (Gracie, Sow, Major) Ulix is card hungry so anyone that can help out with that is useful. I'd also recommend Silurids, firstly because they're amazing models and beasts for synergy, but also counter ranged crews where your pigs would be in danger. We are all in experimental phase I'm sure still, so do whatever seems fun for now!

Most of Bayous masters are quite good at killing (and almost universally bad at staying alive) but for generalists Big Hat (Somer) and Kin (Ophelia) are probably the most universally applicable. Most crews can do most things as usual, and Bayou is no shortage. Zipp and Zoraida are considered the most powerful right now (last I heard) and are great in almost every matchup, but arguably they aren't generalists, just too good. Zipp wants to be the disruptive mobility piece, Zoraida wants card control and obeys, but both dominate the current schemes and strats aside from maybe Reckoning.

I don't see it as a Nerf bat though to make adjustments to the eel. It's a mechanic that is inconsistent with the rest of similar mechanics in the game for no reason. If another unit had the same ability I'd suggest toning it down on that one too unless it had nothing else going for it, which the eel clearly does. If there are too many "feel bad moments" in a game it makes the game unhealthy and ultimately worse. I'm not saying anything about Abyssinia because I don't KNOW Abyssinia well enough to comment. Not that I feel they are immune to nerfing.

I'm actually ignorant to the Megaphone upgrade, so... I could imagine adding versatile to both Megaphone and Relics would be fine and up the cost by 1. I just have a thematic issue with a horde of Hunter killer sharks being the best healers in the game... By a large section of my force I mean points wise, not raw model count. Once again, I'm not sure how I'd change it, since a respawning Titan or eel would be intense... Yeah, I'd rather Madmen just be redesigned to not make the entire unit immune to shaken tokens. Maybe not being able to use them against their attacks, but their defense could be. It just again makes Cult tankier than it "should" be according to the allegiance description. As much as I want more elite GH units, I really don't want to break away from the whole cheap horde idea. I think Pitched Assault just doesn't work with their glory mechanic, and there aren't enough ways to approach objectives sideways that their hordiness can benefit from. My dream would be to change Pitched to Scrip killed rather than Model/Unit/Fireteam. Commanders would be worth some arbitrary number.

Yes I'm saying the eels should be nerfed. This wasn't a Nerf only rhinos thread. Horo is already used far more often than some of the other commanders. I don't think it would neuter him, but if he was slightly weaker it might be okay. I have no problems with my faction getting slightly weaker if it means less feel bad moments for me and my opponent. I may have to reread supply cache, but I thought it said it had to be placed at least 12/8" away from other Markers. It does not specify which kind. I would like to Nerf summoning in a way, as it stops some currently abusive strategies, such as Behind Enemy Lines to immediately flip a marker without counterplay unless you babysit it. It gives the opponent a chance to react to it. Giving the summoned unit full squads at least allows it to have a chance at survival.

I guess this should be in general in a way, but i'd like to compile a list of "seems unintended" or bad interactions that takes the player's out if the game. Keep in mind I rarely play Earthside factions (only friends proxying) so I can't comment much on their states. There will always be strong combos so I'm going to try to avoid listing those, just some of the more egregious ones. 1. Rhinos are feel bad no matter how you approach them. 2. Nothing in the game should be able to reduce damage directly to 0. Assets can only reduce a numerical value of damage, and so should other models mechanics. Eels do this a lot, as do Rhinos. 3. Relics of Ancient Malifaux should be a Versatile, Once per Activation action. This stops Frenzy abuse and also makes it more attractive to anyone else. 4. Portal generation should not limit where Supply Cache markers can go. If placed correctly your opponent can't score. Either Supply Cache needs to be changed or Portals need to not effect objectives. 5. Pitched Assault directly counters GH. Yes I've played and won games, it was always an uphill battle. No other allegiance suffers quite as hard from a strategy. 6. GH is also the only faction that has units that don't count for it's own special rules. I understand recursion is insanely powerful, but it's a feel bad that sometimes a big chunk of your force can't come back. 7. Every faction should have a non-asset way to generate tokens. At the very least Pinned. This might not be necessary if Relics is nerfed. 8. Adjuncts need to be retweaked. Morphlings literally only exist to fill gaps and if you don't take Engineers/Raving Madmen you're doing it wrong. 9. Cult mitigates it's own "weaknesses" a tad to easily (see above point). Shaken tokens should probably be more applicable to them. 10. I don't think Tide Pools feel very fun to play against, especially when used en masse. This feeds into the next point- 11. Unresisted damage that can be cheated is bad. Awful. As much as I love to use it, it is one of the worst feelings in the game. All agency is removed from the player. Stormsiren has to win her Lure duel, but with an 8 value she rarely loses. If things like hazardous terrain force you to take damage, the opposing player should not be able to cheat or reflip it. 12. Summoning feels lackluster for squads, coming into the board 1-2 fireteams down doesn't make much sense especially if they don't spawn in with reinforcement tokens. My proposition is that models summon at full strength with 2 pinned markers on them and count as activated for the turn they are summoned. GH, since it is summoned before the turn doesn't worry about being activated but the 2 pins still apply. This prevents summons from holding an area the moment they are brought in, while also having a fighting chance. It doesn't allow someone to summon, then immediately rush down an objective the same activation or turn. It also reduces the need to either sit in place with a Focused Effort or have some kind of healer to be useful whatsoever. Feel free to make your own lists for Earthside allegiances.

@bedjy I don't typically "let" them stack tokens, usually 2 or 3 is enough to last them a few turns. Not sure how youra are dying so fast but it could be a combination of high Strength attacks, lots of card draw, intense (and I mean really) focus fire, or perhaps just bad luck. I by no means think the rhino is unkillable, and there are a few ways to deal with it even in GH faction, but my main concern is the awful taste it leaves in someone's mouth. You see this amazing sculpt, for a cheap cost, and it draws you too it. You play it, and now your opponent either refuses to play with rhinos again, or just doesn't believe in the balance anymore. Eels aren't immune to a balance pass either, Reinforcements should only block 1 damage, not the whole thing. But even so, the eel doesn't benefit from Endless Numbers, also requires lots of tokens. It USES the tokens it gains to split (hence weakening it for a time), and it can, at maximum, kill one fireteam per turn barring stratagems.

And now they won't play with or against it. We've gone through a few demos with the Cult and GH boxes, talked about some of the units, and then my demoing partner and I inevitably land on the subject of the Rhino. It felt wrong to sweep it under the rug, so we talked about it. If they've played wargames before their eyes almost immediately glaze over with either dread or excitement. After all, who doesn't want to control a big nasty rhino? We tried to discuss how to handle it and when it comes to GH I usually just shrug. There's a couple ways I've played that can mitigate it, but outside of raw luck the strats are complicated and tricky. Faking Strength 5 hits by pulling the rhino through multiple pools (+1 Str per pool traveled through), Massive arms with the Titan, lure it away from portals, bodyblock with large bases or high armored Whelks. It isn't hopeless until you begin to realize how point and click the rhino is vs. the effort/luck involved to defeat one. And that's before we mention you can take more than one. We've considered maybe it's the durability that makes it too much. Maybe it's the shaken token immunity. Maybe it's only Fenton that makes them a nightmare, or Toughness itself. It inevitably boils down to Fire Nova. The single easy TN to make multiple fireteams take unresistable damage. I sometimes forget it can charge and has a respectable melee attack, because honestly when would you do that? Would the Rhino still be good even without Nova? It's got the durability, the mobility of the portals, the disruption of No Morale bubble, and a good melee charge. Should the Rhino be capable of AoE in the faction that already has access to mobile bombs, AoE Commander, Doomseekers, and insane mobility? Let me know your take, and keep in mind this is from the perspective of a GH player.

Two words: Gremlin Pilots.

The best thing about Gibbering Hordes is their versatility based on opponents choices. The "best" answer to your question is whatever the opponent doesn't want you to use. If against KE either Whelks or Skulkers as they tend to counter them well. Abysinnia you're going to either go speed or hitting power, so either Yarazi or Karkinoi. Cult struggles in the long game, and is arguably the hardest matchup as you both counter each other. In this case it's better to play whatever you're comfortable with, but a second Karkinoi or Whelks can't hurt. Anything weaker just tends to die too fast. Mirror match is my secret weapon, Barbed Crawlers are fantastic against the hordes. Especially if they didn't think to bring Whelks.

The key word is push Up to 4". 0" counts as up to 4".

They aren't DF 8, it's only actions I thought. Otherwise I have been playing very wrong lol

I agree with the consensus that GH has a rather tough difficulty curve and due to the synergistic nature of the army and the lack of having all the pieces, some "builds" aren't even actually available yet (SPECKLES I'M LOOKING AT YOU). I lost (nearly) all of my early games with them, and I was the one of the two of us who read the rules!! So yeah, definitely gonna be a bit before the big GH players come out ahead, especially while we wait for some of our more critical units to hit shelves. After some games and a familiarity with the system, I can comfortably say that they perform consistently well as long as you keep the game close until turn 4. By then, hopefully, attrition will have run it's course. And as a word of advice to any who are looking at this... PROTECT YOUR DAMN KARKINOI, they are NOT there to lead the charge! lol

Looks great! Slight nitpick, I'm fairly certain it's spelt "Morale" in Morale Action (the flag). Otherwise I would accuse my little Gibberers of suddenly growing a conscience! Additionally, do you have any idea how I could make these printouts "card sized"?

I must have powered you guys throughout much of the last month solely on the Iron Skeeters. "What do you MEAN the handle goes through the body first?!"

As a GH player with cult as my main opponent, I've been on the receiving end of this one before, numerous times. (Thankfully it's only ever one explosion since we only have 1 rhino and don't proxy). My best forms of mitigation are: 1. If you're playing against cult, deploy back into your deployment zone and spread as thin as possible, unless you can stand on a portal close to you first action. Only ever do that with something cheap. By deploying back, it allows you to "waste" their activations, or they will reveal their strat immediately and hopefully only do a little bit of damage. 2. Use Heavy Rains and Tide pools to make portal hopping dangerous (if you're playing Siren). 3. Always Bring Whelks. 4. Remember the objective. If they use the rhino deep in your DZ, then they can't cover the important mid field markers with their Aura. 5. If they teleport and move (or if you can move them with Siren and co.) Block line of sight to the Rhino and cover the portal it came out of so it cant escape. Finally, while it's true that this is a lot of work to deal with a single cheap model, usually their list is designed to augment the rhino bomb in some way (at least in 1 Commander) and they have to pour a lot of actions and resources into the rhino to make it function too. A full stratagem, a Commander activation, Focused Effort, and the asset all have to happen before the explosion.

I can definitely see a place for the warning shot, Stunned is still really good against certain masters and keywords that rely on triggers. Warning shot is definitely a setup tool for the rest of your crew to capitalize on. Good also if the target has heavy armor or something that you want the whole crew to work on.

I'd assume just because a Coordinated Strike with the right units can seriously do damage if not outright kill a Fireteam before they've ever activated. It's mostly a cult trick, although I've learned it's best to just deploy further back against cult and bait them in.

So in all honesty, I haven't actually fought against Margaret yet. From looking at her card and Rapier Wit, Margaret is decidedly the best choice for dealing with the Hordes, and there is no perfect counter. The best case scenario would be to ignore her completely, although that can be easier said than done. Her main weakness seems to be Area attacks (since it doesn't matter if you pass off the attack), a heavy reliance on Tactics Tokens, and blasts/pulses since AFAIK they aren't considered "targeting". Horomatangi can make quick work of her with his pulses. Stormsiren can attempt to Lure her, if she passes off the attack, it can actually benefit you, since you can then move the fireteam towards a tidepool and it won't take damage since it's still yours. If none of those work sheer volume of attacks can do it, but it's going to be very costly. It might (usually) be worth it if you can guarantee she won't poof away before you get her. If you're playing against a smart opponent, Margaret won't make herself available to attack until your forces are already committed. Keep Siren safe by keeping her in a hazardous pool. Frenzy can use Tidal Scepter to play a similar sneaky role, or just keep themselves spread out so Margaret can only kill 1 per turn. As for dealing with Ruthless Mockery... I don't have many good answers for that.