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santaclaws01

Titania Tactica

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titania is not as good as you seem to think and our emissary certainly wasn't that powerful, yes a changeling is nice but it is slowing down your crew to drop scheme markers closer etc.

if she takes pact then people know she is going after the master and can act accordingly and if she has royal indignation then hopefully you have a master than can go after her. also its only like armour really and there is so much min 3 damage these days that impossible to wound isn't the best.

yes she is good, however collodi is still far better and dreamer can summon better. Lilith and Pandora still have their things too. don't worry too much about titania, I still don't think you will see a huge rise in her use.

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2 hours ago, katadder said:

titania is not as good as you seem to think and our emissary certainly wasn't that powerful, yes a changeling is nice but it is slowing down your crew to drop scheme markers closer etc.

if she takes pact then people know she is going after the master and can act accordingly and if she has royal indignation then hopefully you have a master than can go after her. also its only like armour really and there is so much min 3 damage these days that impossible to wound isn't the best.

yes she is good, however collodi is still far better and dreamer can summon better. Lilith and Pandora still have their things too. don't worry too much about titania, I still don't think you will see a huge rise in her use.

People keep saying that the emissary wasn't that powerful, yet he ranks on the top of my personal list. Being able to summon significant 4SS models, blocking off parts of the field with Hazardous terrain and better triggers than most emissaries sure sucks ...

You're not slowing down your crew at all to do the summoning, except on Turn 1. Arguably Turn 1 doesn't really matter all that much. Double walk on 2 models vs interact + walk + 2 summons means you'll be gimping yourself. Everyone keeps raving about ACTIVATION CONTROL OP, yet now the emissary can do it for a 7 and he's just fine? He's not too strong, he's just fine?

 

Pact doesn't mean she HAS to go after your master. It means she can pretty much kill anything without resistance. No soulstones and no healing means every single models is now a rather easy target for her to go after.

Royal Indignation works well to absorb as much AP as possible. Min 3 on a minion still only means 1 damage is coming through to her. If an enforcer hits her, she can just stone it away. The only counter to it is damage that can't be reduced, while there are far more possibilities that also cut through armor. It reminds me of Yin with her own version of Hard to Wound, Mass of Viscera. You also mention that your master can do damage to her, but that's pretty much HOPING you have a master that fulfils that task. Imagine if Dreamer or Collodi are your master for that game, they both can't do squat to that. Especially Collodi with all his minions. Good luck killing Royal Titania who can stop 2 damage on every attack without lifting a finger.

 

I don't see Collodi as far better than her and I'd love to see your reasoning for it.

Dreamer can summon better, which is true. However the important part of that summoning is gaining activation control and the Emissary does that even better. Dreamer needs to sac a Daydream to guarantee a summon, use a stone to guarantee a summon or summon a Daydream. the Emissary doesn't need a mask, he just needs a 7. Where Dreamer can summon a Daydream, the Emissary can summon a Changeling.

Yes, the value that Dreamer can summon is better. At that point in time you're either burning severe cards (masks) or severe cards and soulstones/Daydreams. You're also spending Master AP to get close to thesame effect as the Emissary. Dreamer's summons also come in at 1 wound, which means they are vulnerable to pretty much anything. Summon 2 models and you can only accomplice 1, leaving the other wide open to get AP-traded on. It's even worse if you have something with FGF closeby as that can kill your new summon if you fail the duel.

Lilith and Pandora can do their things too, I'll agree on that. The question is whether or not they can actually do things better than Titania at this point in the game. With things I mean scoring VP, actually winning games. I'm not arguing that I can ping-spam better than Pandora. I'm talking about playing competitively and I currently don't see Titania losing to out to any of our other masters.

 

When Titania just came out a lot of people said she wasn't good. I've always said she was good, nobody believed me. After a while people finally saw her value and she moved up on pretty much every tier list. On some tier lists she was already S-tier before wave 5. Now wave 5 gave her 2 broken OP upgrades while also making the Emissary broken OP with her. When taking Titania with the Emissary, it's like facing 2 masters at once. Balance-wise this shouldn't have been allowed and I'm not even sure how this made it through playtesting without getting severly nerfed.

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Don't get me wrong I do like her but I honestly don't think she's as good as you seem to think.

As for collodi a 4 activation master with a ranged attack with built in positives that have triggers that can be better than paralyse? What's not to like? Also collodi is not full of minions, mine runs 2 henchmen for starters (widow weaver and hinamatsu now).

I don't know what meta you play in but these upgrades will not take her over the top (and I have summoned 2 changelings in a game with her).

Lilith is a better control master and normally has some beaters. That definitely hit harder than the get or titania maxed out.

Pandora does willpower shenanigans better and can now summon too.

Collodi does ranged and control better than titania and a slow titania is not going to do much to collodi that he doesn't heal next activation whilst getting your beaters to walk away from you.

The emmisary is considered poor for 10ss because of his low damage track most likely. His triggers are not much compared to others emmisary and even has one the same. And the emmisary is definitely not master level in the slightest. Try some games against decent players outside of your local store and you might find she's not upto scratch (or certainly the level you seem to think she's at)

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Dude, I do love my Pandora and Sorrows, I think they're underrated by many players, but I don't tell everyone they're top tier when all the evidence state otherwise.

You're full of passion and, inarguably, you're good at writing and debating, but no matter how hard you try to present your wishful theoryfauxing as a reality we're still talking about the models universally rated as mediocre before wave 5. Probably they were underrated. Certainly the fifth book made them a lot better. But all that 'end of other Nvb masters' and 'Two masters instead of one' talks are a little premature.  

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35 minutes ago, katadder said:

Don't get me wrong I do like her but I honestly don't think she's as good as you seem to think.

As for collodi a 4 activation master with a ranged attack with built in positives that have triggers that can be better than paralyse? What's not to like? Also collodi is not full of minions, mine runs 2 henchmen for starters (widow weaver and hinamatsu now).

I don't know what meta you play in but these upgrades will not take her over the top (and I have summoned 2 changelings in a game with her).

Lilith is a better control master and normally has some beaters. That definitely hit harder than the get or titania maxed out.

Pandora does willpower shenanigans better and can now summon too.

Collodi does ranged and control better than titania and a slow titania is not going to do much to collodi that he doesn't heal next activation whilst getting your beaters to walk away from you.

The emmisary is considered poor for 10ss because of his low damage track most likely. His triggers are not much compared to others emmisary and even has one the same. And the emmisary is definitely not master level in the slightest. Try some games against decent players outside of your local store and you might find she's not upto scratch (or certainly the level you seem to think she's at)

You have summoned 2 changelings in a game with her, woohoo. You can do that pretty much every Turn which is why it's such a problem. Almost every single summon in the game requires a 9+ and that's for good reason: activations and AP are king in this game. The Emissary can summon decent models on a suitless 7. They tried to nerf summoning in gg18, yet they still allowed this beast to roam free. I just don't understand it.

 

Collodi has 10" range, which is decent. His Triggers are also good, I'll admit that. The thing is those triggers work after damaging, which means they can be stoned away. Those Triggers also don't work on opposing Masters, so no controlling Lady J, Sonnia, Titania, ... His :+fate on damage does help him, but let's not kid ourselves by saying severe damage 4 is that great. In order to get the 4 AP, you need to take 2 damage as well, leaving him more vulnerable. If you can bring Collodi to a mid-ranged fight, he's probably not gonna like it for long. You also bring Hinamatsu and Widow Weaver, which is a decent cost already and throw away a great activation advantage you could have gotten. I haven't seen that happen too much, so I won't comment on it. Don't try it against Titania though, she'll have 9 activations at Turn 1 with more beaters than you have.

Lilith is a better control master, no arguing there. But does that reliably bring in the VP that Titania can bring in? Titania also brings in some beaters, so it becomes a matter of who can kill/VP/deny better. I still feel Titania does better than Lilith no those things on a reliable basis.

Pandora is still middle-of-the-pack. She got some buffs, but let's not kid ourselves and say she's top tier now.

Collodi won't be doing much if he gets the Condition Behold My Glory. Dropping 2 cards everytime you want to attack something other than Titania doesn't seem to be that great if you want to control my entire beater lineup.

 

I'm playing on nationals-level in my backwater hole of a country, but I still fell confident to say that a lot of people are bad at this game. If you only judge a model by damage, you just plain old suck and need to get better. By that logic the luring models are the worst models in the game as they don't have a great damage track for their costs and they are mostly just utility...

The Emissary had the problem of being unreliable in doing what he's trying to do. Needing a mask for his Hazardous Terrain and for the summoning left much to be desired. Getting a single 7+ :mask wasn't that hard to do, but could get rather obnoxious if it was an 11 or 12. You don't want to pay that kind of a price for a changeling. Thankfully he's very versatile thanks to his Triggers. Yes, they share the Overpower Trigger, but he also has a combat-condition removal and a Scheme, Corpse AND Scrap marker removing :pulse as his Trigger.

So what can he do? Board control with his Hungry Land Marker (which heals him), summoning (suitless with Titania) and a decent damage track with great Triggers that can solve a lot of situations (also free with Titania).

This forum lauded the Shadow Emissary as one of the best, but they forgot his major downsides. Mysterious Emissary had barely no downsides and was viable in almost every single crew, but was relegated to crap-tier because of a 2/4/4 damage track.

 

50 minutes ago, Pikciwok said:

Dude, I do love my Pandora and Sorrows, I think they're underrated by many players, but I don't tell everyone they're top tier when all the evidence state otherwise.

You're full of passion and, unarguably, you're good at writing and debating, but no matter how hard you try to present your wishful theoryfauxing as a reality we're still talking about the models universally rated as mediocre before wave 5. Probably they were underrated. Certainly the fifth book made them a lot better. But all that 'end of other Nvb masters' and 'Two masters instead of one' talks are a little premature.  

Titania was considered bad, useless and obsolete when she came out. I argued against it and was shot down. Several months later people understood how she worked and she got on the decent-tier with S-tier on several schemes. I feel that Titania was worth S-tier even before Wave 5. You could take her as a single master to a tournament and expect to do really well or even win. Now they gave her 2 amazing upgrades AND buffed the Emissary to crazy amounts of strength

My guess is that more people will pick her up in the coming months and she'll be demonstrated in her true glory: top competitive players picking her up to score those wins. I wouldn't even be amazed if she already got a light jab on the coming January errata if Wyrd can see the potential they've unleashed. I'm fully expecting the Conflux to get errata'd due to the sheer amount of strength it now gives.

This might be a bit premature indeed, but this is how I see it now. I really can't see any reason as to why you'd pick up something besides Titania with the Emissary if you really want to guarantee that win.

 

Just a slight remark as you might have perhaps wanted to word it differently. You mention the models were universally rated as mediocre, but that they were probably underrated. This means those models were already good, yet the players couldn't draw out their potential and they needed a game-breaking buff to actually be seen as worthwhile. I can't fault the models or the designers for that, that part is on the players. You can look at League of Legends as a great example of this. They constantly have this problem, especially with newer stuff being released. People can't really venture well outside their comfort zone and make bad calls because of it. I don't want to see another Leveticus-type year of competitive meta, which is why I'm already posting this.

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Obviously not much of a collodi player if you think losing 2 wounds or having conditions is bad. They are called effigies and collodi never goes to work without 3 of them, 2 always being brutal for healing and arcane for condition removal and some burning on his attacks. Also the slow trigger does work on masters so you hit titania once then kill every one of the guys you just summoned or maybe pick on something else.

You get to 9 activations turn 1, I start with 10 then collodi starts removing yours and one if yours is 10ss supposedly summoning stuff, the others are at least slow or even hitting each other, maybe running the other way. If you think 4 damage 4 times isn't good you obviously don't understand why Levi was neutered.

I do like titania but even with this she is not collodi level and I would happily show you this if given the chance and I am not even a top tier player (although saying you play nationals level is not particularly great depending on your country as you can just but nationals tickets. Now masters level might be)

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7 hours ago, whodares said:

Is there actually any reason to pick a master besides Titania for the Neverborn right now? The Emissary buff is completely broken and Titania is probably the best Jack-of-all-trades without any weaknesses.

 

Emissary broken:

  • suitless rare 3 summon (Changeling) on 7+
  • guaranteed triggers on anything you do
  • still as powerful as before

 

Titania

  • Can become the best tank in the game with Royal Indignation while still easily completing almost any scheme
  • Can become a complete summoner or henchman counter with Pact of the Grave Spirit (no healing and soulstones, +1 damage to masters and deal damage equal to damage taken)
  • Is already a decent tanky model thanks to Impossible to Wound and Rejoine In Rebirth
  • Neverborn-style dumps a ton of duels on your opponent of WP13
  • Rather high damage for such a tanky model: 2/3/4 which can (easily) become 4/5/6
  • Behold my Glory means you have to target her or dump 2 cards for just 1 Soulstone
  • Taproot allows her to get out of harms way for the cost of a mask

 

My biggest problem right now is the buff the Emissary got with her. Wyrd knew suitless summoning was a problem due to Sandeep, yet they introduced another one. Turn 1 you just drop 2 scheme markers with 2 other models and you can basicly get an Emissary for a measly cost of 2 Stones due to the 8 stone summoning.

Comparing this summon to The Dreamer just shows how insane it is. Dreamer can suitless summon a Daydream which is Insignificant, low wounds and has no attack. Emissary can summon a Changeling which can copy any action at stat 4, has pounce and becomes significant next Turn.

Dreamer brings in damage in his original list just like Titania, but can't really summon in big beaters unless you bring Tannen and hope his gimmick works. Titania brings in the Emissary and she still has about 35 stones you can spend on damage without any drawback.

Collodi brings in a ton of activations, but they are individually weak. It's also hard for him to summon new models when they die. He has to have models using AP to drop markers, a lot of Titania's theme has marker drops built-in. It's why Dig Their Graves is so easy on her.

 

Titania also becomes a problem as she doesn't have any weaknesses anymore. She can do everything just as good as other masters, except killing models. Not that a lot of things can survive 3 AP of Titania, but she doesn't have the minimum damage to truly be a damage beast - thank God for that.

 

I really hope Wave 6 burns down some of the Emissaries power as the free Changeling is too crazy and allows Titania way too much freedom in her crew selection. The second part they could change on her kit would be to reduce the power on her Limited upgrades a bit. Too much is jammed into 1 card for a measly 1 Stone. Imagine Lynch, Zoraida or Lilith having their upgrades be 1 Stone with some extra functionality added on topof those upgrades.

 

 

So to go back to my original question: is there actually any reason why you'd pick a master besides Titania if you're trying to win? I can't really see a reason.

Two words; Vent Steam.


But to give an actual reply to this.

"My biggest problem right now is the buff the Emissary got with her. Wyrd knew suitless summoning was a problem due to Sandeep, yet they introduced another one. Turn 1 you just drop 2 scheme markers with 2 other models and you can basicly get an Emissary for a measly cost of 2 Stones due to the 8 stone summoning."

Sandeep's summoning isn't suitless, so I'm not sure how it would be a problem due to Sandeep. Additionally it's not like you couldn't already get 2+ Changlings during the course of a normal game, making it suitless just makes it more reliable.

"Comparing this summon to The Dreamer just shows how insane it is. Dreamer can suitless summon a Daydream which is Insignificant, low wounds and has no attack. Emissary can summon a Changeling which can copy any action at stat 4, has pounce and becomes significant next Turn."

Or he can suitless summon A Stitched, Insidious Madness, one of the Twins, or Coppelius. All of those I'd rather have than 2 Changlings in a turn unless I'm just looking for activation or significant bodies.

"Dreamer brings in damage in his original list just like Titania, but can't really summon in big beaters unless you bring Tannen and hope his gimmick works. Titania brings in the Emissary and she still has about 35 stones you can spend on damage without any drawback."

Titania can't summon in big beaters either, but Dreamer can summon in Stitched, which pair amazingly well with his healing.

"Collodi brings in a ton of activations, but they are individually weak. It's also hard for him to summon new models when they die. He has to have models using AP to drop markers, a lot of Titania's theme has marker drops built-in. It's why Dig Their Graves is so easy on her."

I would hardly called Stitched or Illuminated activations individually weak. And it's not like he can't take Tooth or Thorn or a Rougarou and use them arguably better than Titania can. And who cares if it's hard for him to summon new models, his AP is going to be better spent psuedo-paralyzing opponents models or pulling the strings of his own.

"Titania also becomes a problem as she doesn't have any weaknesses anymore. She can do everything just as good as other masters, except killing models. Not that a lot of things can survive 3 AP of Titania, but she doesn't have the minimum damage to truly be a damage beast - thank God for that."

She literally does. I even made a list of them already, but if you want me to go into detail more. Mei Feng shuts down her crew. Sonnia blasts her away. Katanaka Crime Bosses get around both her damage reduction and give benefits for her dropping markers. Thalarian Quellers can make basically any model get around her durability. If she doesn't take RI then she's as fragile as she always was to a dedicated beater activation. Ressers with Decaying aura standing around her make her very sad. Reva can do a lot against her by targeting her Df and ignoring her damage reduction. Throw Kang into any 10T crew and suddenly Titania is dropping like a rock. Any enforcer and up with min 3-4 is going to eat through her regardless of her being able to reduce their damage. Hell a Flurrying peacekeeper with targeting systems is going to 1 activation her even if she has armor from the emissary.


Every master has strengths. Every master has weaknesses. If you can't recognize both in the master you're playing you're going to get blindsided, and hard.

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Think I would love for an opponent to take royal indignation when I play arcanists as them all being undead is great. 1st time playing against titania was at nationals and I realised the opposing crew was undead when using my fixed mei Feng crew. Titania didn't last long. 

Also the way I play titania I am actually torn between her upgrade on the emmisary and the standard one as apart from her and the emmisary my crew is minions and :+fate to all attacks is great. Especially the 11+ attacks I get from the tooths activation. 

Are the upgrades good? Yeah. Do they break her? Not in the slightest. Maybe play some more and let's get back on track with this being a titania tactica. Santaclaws sorry for the slight derailment let's hope normal service resumes 😀

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1 hour ago, katadder said:

Obviously not much of a collodi player if you think losing 2 wounds or having conditions is bad. They are called effigies and collodi never goes to work without 3 of them, 2 always being brutal for healing and arcane for condition removal and some burning on his attacks. Also the slow trigger does work on masters so you hit titania once then kill every one of the guys you just summoned or maybe pick on something else.

You get to 9 activations turn 1, I start with 10 then collodi starts removing yours and one if yours is 10ss supposedly summoning stuff, the others are at least slow or even hitting each other, maybe running the other way. If you think 4 damage 4 times isn't good you obviously don't understand why Levi was neutered.

I do like titania but even with this she is not collodi level and I would happily show you this if given the chance and I am not even a top tier player (although saying you play nationals level is not particularly great depending on your country as you can just but nationals tickets. Now masters level might be)

Losing 2 wounds isn't THAT bad, but it's something you have to factor in. If you're bringing in Widow Weaver and Hinamatsu with a total of 10 models, your other models are pretty much trash save for the Effigies. You'll have no reliable damage outside of Collodi and Hinamatsu. You're also forcing a certain activation order on yourself as you'll have to activate both effigies before you activate Collodi. This leaves openings that can and will be exploited. The slow Trigger works on masters, but the other ones - pseudo paralyze- don't. I also wish you the best of luck killing all the summoned models. They start with a decently high manipulative and their main function is just be an AP sink and give activation control. Hitting them is actually a boon for me.

With all the weak models you're bringing, I'd rather argue that you can't win a war of attrition like that. Your minions do no damage and you are completely dependant on Collodi, Widow Weaver and Hinamatsu for anything. Titania can bring in several big beaters or a Tooth + Rougarou combo and just murder them as she pleases. You'd also have to ditch 2 cards anytime one of those models targets something else than Titania. A good player also knows not to aim for Collodi, you aim at his Puppets or Minions.

The Levi problem was two-fold as he could also summon Abominations on those kills. For him it was worthwhile cheating up to 4 severes for those models, Collodi doesn't have that luxury.

 

42 minutes ago, santaclaws01 said:

- snip -

  1. First off: you are correct on Sandeep. Mind slip of mine which took way too long to get corrected here. You can get a reliable 2 Changelings on your first Turn which can be guaranteed to 3 on Turn 2. At that point in time you'll have a rather minimal investment for a very good Emissary and 12 stones worth of summoned models. If you do the double summoning on Turn 1, your Emissary will have a cost of 2 stones because you have just summoned 8 stones for the cheap price of 4 AP and 2 7+ cards.
  2. The Dreamer requires a sacrifice in order to summon suitless, which means your total amount of activations are not increasing for that single summon. At some point you'll also have to summon another Daydream just to be able to keep the summoning going. The Twins and Coppelius also require high cards to get off and Coppelius is VERY vulnerable if summoned due to having 4 base defense. The Twins share conditions, which means you'll have to find a way to summon without Slow or you can ditch another 2 cards from your hand.
  3. I agree on you with the Stitched. They pair amazingly if you chain-activate them with The Dreamer. Going back above HtK means you can fire a big shot and not be scared of death. The downside to them is that they are squishy and easy to kill. Reactivate loses value if the model is dead before it can reactivate. It does take 2 AP if your shot didn't fail, swhich is why they are great. They do require a 9 :mask to summon, so you either sac a daydream or a stone. 9 is already on the higher end of the spectrum as well, so every summon you do leaves you more and more open. 7 on the other hand is a middle card, which makes it a lot more dispensible.
  4. I thought about using Tooth and Rougarou with Collodi, but you're sacrificing too much in order to get that off. Their min damage 2 also doesn't help them and you'd be relying on a model already being within their range. On paper it sounds good, but in practice I haven't seen it work yet. Too much investment in a small area. Perhaps this is due to the skill of the Collodi players here or perhaps the map lay-out. I'll trust you on this one. Stitched and Illuminated are great models, but Stitched is a double-edged knife and Illuminated needs to be close range already. Putting Collodi that close to your opponent is a very dangerous playstyle which can and should be punished.
  5. There are counters to her, I'm aware of that. The point is that you need to have inside knowledge on your opponent in order to actually bring that to her. Are you going to go Mei Feng when your opponent declares Neverborn? Are you going to bring Katanaka Crime Boss as a default pick against her? Can your Crime Boss actually survive long enough against her? A lot of the things you listed are indeed strong against her, but you'll only bring those if you know it's her specifically. If you bring your Crime Boss against Lynch or Zoraida, you're in for a very very bad time.

 

I'll just leave this here now and let Santa continue on his Tactica. Just don't blame me when I can come back in a couple of months with the obvious "I told you so" remarks :)

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I drop mei into most things actually. Regularly run her fixed crew at tourneys 😜

Is titania putting the condition on all my minions? With her 2 actions? Compared to collodi having twice as many actions and screwing with your crew? Seems like everything is going titanias way.

How many damage dealers do you need? Marionettes etc do for activation control and scheme running, collodi is the damage in his crew plus whatever he gets your beaters to do to your own crew.

I also know the tooth rougaru combo as I use it myself and with + flips from the emissary however it's outranged by collodi who can kill a rougaru in one activation whilst probably getting it to kill tooth ( see I can put everything my way too😜) or perhaps i just paralyse titania with widow weaver and let poison and hinamatsu deal with her 😀 reducing damage by 1 isn't a rare thing you know, lots of models have this or better 

Tactics wise i believe titania can go minion hunting relatively unscathed. Wetherher emmisary upgrade is better than the base one with all her minions I am unsure of as yet but will try

I think you will be back in a couple of months but not yo say I told you so, more to say sorry guys I was wrong and you were right. Titania and her emmisary is not broken

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19 minutes ago, katadder said:

I drop mei into most things actually. Regularly run her fixed crew at tourneys 😜

Is titania putting the condition on all my minions? With her 2 actions? Compared to collodi having twice as many actions and screwing with your crew? Seems like everything is going titanias way.

How many damage dealers do you need? Marionettes etc do for activation control and scheme running, collodi is the damage in his crew plus whatever he gets your beaters to do to your own crew.

I also know the tooth rougaru combo as I use it myself and with + flips from the emissary however it's outranged by collodi who can kill a rougaru in one activation whilst probably getting it to kill tooth ( see I can put everything my way too😜) or perhaps i just paralyse titania with widow weaver and let poison and hinamatsu deal with her 😀 reducing damage by 1 isn't a rare thing you know, lots of models have this or better 

Tactics wise i believe titania can go minion hunting relatively unscathed. Wetherher emmisary upgrade is better than the base one with all her minions I am unsure of as yet but will try

I said I wouldn't respond to the Titania vs Collodi anymore, so I won't. Soon you will all see when people get more used to the newer upgrades of Titania.

Take a look at the Cyclops. It's a Fae (I think) Enforcer with a decent damage track that gets more reliable as he loses a couple of wounds. It can also place 2 50mm Ice Pillars in base contact, which means board control. It's an enforcer though, so your generic Conflux will not boost it. He is a decent scheme runner hunter, but does cost 8 stones to bring.

Grootslang can also work fairly well if you bring the Gorar as he can really dive in with his Lairs, soak up AP, dish out some damage and then come back. This guy can do wonders on Guard The Stash.

Tooth + Rougarou + Emissary is already a fairly decent investment and the combo doesn't really "need" the generic Conflux to be worth it's points. It's more some sort of icing on the cake, but it does mean your Emissary becomes a lot less reliable and more dependant on your cards in hand. It also forces you to keep the Emissary close to Tooth and Rougarou, which locks down 25 stones on a single part of the map. When playing Titania, I would 100% pick the Emissary with the new Conflux and I really suggest you give it a try. You can really feel the reliability difference between the base version and the Titania version!

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Yeah the Cyclops is a fae but for 8ss neverborn have much better things I think. It's running that line between 5 wounds and dead that's difficult with him especially with only df4.

I think the bultungin will be alot more useful fae  with titania or other neverborn. Nice 5ss models.

 

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Well, the Primeval Conflux allows the Emissary to heal a friendly Fae for 2 Wounds or give Armor + 1 on a (0) action. It can give the Cyclops that extra lease on life. Also don't forget Cyclops can heal itself for 2 Wounds if it drops a :ram or can go up to 4" range if it drops a :mask when it activates. This can potentially keep it safe(r) when combining it with the Hard to Kill.

Bultungin seem like really nice models indeed. It is dependant on the opponent dropping scheme markers to reach it's full potential though, but a 5 stone model that has ml 6 is never bad.

Book 5 really upped the power level for all factions, but I'm not liking the way they are doing it. So many high stat lines or attack/damage lines which make buying the new models a must for competitiveness. I understand from a business point-of-view, but that doesn't mean it's a great player-wise way of doing it. My poor Yan Lo with his 5 Df and Wp is crying in a corner somewhere :(

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[MODHAT] Hey Guys, it looks like the thread has gotten a little off track. Given that this is a thread about Titania, could we steer the discussion specifically toward getting the most out of her? Thanks! :)[/MODHAT]

Speaking of which, I know in our local meta our Titania player gets alot of value out of having a Sorrow or two on hand for the Misery damage. They've always been a priority target when I face Titania, yet nobody else outside our meta seems to talk about them. Is this something you've experimented with in Titania crews? 

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I always prefer taking a Cyclops instead of Rougarou, because I like lists that can spread out and not depend on combos. It's the same reason I don't like the barbaros combo, but that's just muy playstyle.

I haven' t tried sorrows but I like Insidious Madnesses with her.

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2 hours ago, Azkral said:

I always prefer taking a Cyclops instead of Rougarou, because I like lists that can spread out and not depend on combos. It's the same reason I don't like the barbaros combo, but that's just muy playstyle.

I haven' t tried sorrows but I like Insidious Madnesses with her.

I agree, I think the barbaros combo does work great if you know where the opponent will be. 

I like the cyclops but they're a risk, though don't underestimate the healing in a titania crew, emissary, titania cyclops himself, so the opponent really has to put him down. I sometimes ran him somewhat to the flank so it's harder for the opponent to commit that damage. I also like to run him up into a good position and drop ice pillars. 

I'm excited to try the bultungin, they seem very good with titania and give her some nice cheaper minions. 

About the emissary, I do not believe he is broken by any means, but he is very strong with titania now and I always bring him with titania. I do agree that most people underrate him. It's not unlikely to bring in 2 changelings turn 1. You'll be further back, on 6 wounds and down 4 ap and down up to 3 cards, but you gain 2 solid significant models. It makes me a bit more comfortable bringing some of the bigger stuff. Also people underestimate its offense, which does not lie in the damage track (though moderate 4 is ok, not that many models have moderate 5), but in the triggers, removing all scheme, corpse and scrap in a 4" pulse can be awesome. Opponent is buffing himself, offensive condition removal is not that common and can catch the opponent off guard. 

All in all, I think titania is up there at the top but probably still a bit below collodi. Her wave 5 upgrades are crazy good for 1ss, though I also think that now she can actually tank, which she couldn't before. 

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Already have published it in Errata wishes topic, but decided that's a better place for this post (plus I'm oh so proud of the idea, so I'm gonna flaunt :P )

Pure Theoryfaux, but I think Mature Nephilim may find its niche in Royal Titania's Court Crew. I think about a core of 4 models: Titania, pukeworm, Emissary and the Mature. Pukeworm helps in card cycling to get those :crowEmissary needs. After placing first Hungry Land Marker, Emissary's summoning skills get reliable. Titania turns Mature into Fae - thanks to that he has access to 'Fae Squeal', as well as Titania's and Emissary's heals and armor buffs. Mature Nephilim brings to the crew the best Ml attack Changelings can copy (:+fate on attack, Min. damage 4) as well as some pushes to send enemies into Hungry Hungry Markers or threat range of Changelings. That's a solid, well synergized core with 23 ss left for some utility, scheme runners, or models you just like to play. Please do note that neither Nekima nor any other big beater in our faction can substitute the Mature Nephilim in this list.

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I am going to paint one of my Mature Nephilm like Goliath from the Gargoyles show.

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Wanted to ask here how you guys think the errata affects titania. I think she's already in a good place but I'm going to a tournament mid february and I was wondering what neverborn models I might put on my shopping list.

The most interesting model in the errata for neverborn I think is the hooded rider. I think at 12ss he had too much competition from other neverborn beaters, but at 10ss now he seems really good and now quite a bit cheaper than for example a nekima. I think he has good play with zoraida since she can make him charge for 1 ap and he has an enormous threat range so I'm probably getting him anyway, but what do you guys think is his place in a titania crew, and is this a better option in certain situations (if so, which) than her more thematic options. For example, now I'm bringing a cyclops usually as a budget beater.

Unfortunately he is a construct and so doesn't gain fae from royal indignation, but that might have been a bit crazy.

There are some nice interactions:

- Titania can overextend a bit early depending on the opponents crew if she's running royal indignation and bring some models in using audience with the queen. This gives the rider some safer access to enemy models without exposing himself too much.

- Titania can use the trigger :ram deal with him, to give hime some extra mobility and attacks. Especially later in the game that becomes more valuable.

- The most important things that titania brings to the hooded rider imo is protection. Titania can get opponents out of position using audience with the queen, she is also good at tying up some models and tagging the opponents damage threat with behold my glory. 

- Titania can run queens champion, though I'm not sure how valuable it is on the rider. The armor becomes less important later in the game, the plus flips are nice though. It costs 2ss and an upgrade slot and I think that titania has a lot of great upgrade options so I'm usually not able to fit it in. I think the upgrade has some potential though I don't think so in combo with the rider.

- Titania can also heal nearby friendly models on a :crowtrigger when using bloody command. This pairs well with deal with him and audience with the queen.

 

In conclusion, I believe that the main benefit of running him with Titania is that she disrupts the enemy a lot, between all the duels draining the opponents hand, tying models up and handing out taunts she takes a lot of heat off of priority targets. Thoughts?

 

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While I'd agree that Hooded is probably the most interesting, I also have lists with Kade or Lelu in them that both just gained an extra stone! 

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On 9/1/2018 at 8:17 AM, Freman said:

I am going to paint one of my Mature Nephilm like Goliath from the Gargoyles show.

I already did that. :)

Remember Lelu and lilitu are not living. 

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The Kades cost decrease was a real surprise for me! I think he is quite good even for 7 ss (especially with Teddy), but now he will see table more often for sure.

How do you guys plan to use Lelu? Alone or with his sister? Now he is more attractive to take him from start - 6 ss + his 0 upgrade, before I only summoned him via Dreamer. Barbaros and Tooth can provide pushes for his “pounce” condition. Of course this route can be more violent with Lilitu, cause she will also get that “pounce” and she can give positive flips for both of them. Yeah unfortunately they can’t be “faes”, so no shared armour and no buffs from Emissary.

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