Errata 2023 Arcanist

[50 SS Enforcer]

Errata 2022 is fast approaching, what do you expect to be touched in faction?
What do you want touched that you suspect will not be? 

What do you think will be bad touched? 
 

Let’s see what the arcanists have to say. 

[Jordon]

IMO:

Things that need help

December:

• Raspy1 needs love. I think she's the weakest master in Arcanists. Raspy2 completely invalidates her. Her mechanic doesn't work and she's penalized/resource starved for anything she wants to do. 
• Ice Dancer has no play with Colette and outside of a summon, doesn't really mesh well with Raspy
• Ice Gamin are horribly overshadowed by Kaltgeist. They need to lean into a different role (maybe 3ss?)
• Acolytes suffer badly from ice pillars and crumple in combat. They don't really have much synergy with December
• Hoarcat is decent summon, poor hire for Raspy and even worst for Marcus
• SnowStorm can she please get ice mirror? She wants to be close to her crew but her ranged attack is short and melee is wasted

Others

1. Oxfordian Mage - Doesn't know what it wants to be doing. The keyword doesn't need another ranged blaster. Needs more "element" triggers similar to M2E. 
2. Moleman - Would have been #1 if it wasn't for the new Eagles that gave Marcus cheap schemers. Still, moleman are just awful. Needs other models to work, dies in a single hit, no adaptive evolution, should have fade away. 
3. Showgirl - They don't really work with Colettes schtick. Lure is cool but they just die as a result. So fragile and slow. 
4. Vidiya Guard - Too expensive. The keyword doesn't need more beaters. 
5. Firebranded They need pyres in order to work but they take damage from burning. 

 

Things that might be too good

1. Silent One - Way too efficient, invalidating most other in-theme healers.
2. Kaeris2 - Probably needs a cap on the scorching radiance
3. Hoffman2 - Pylons should be destructible (but would probably need to be easier to generate) 
4. Kang - We should remove as many of these mass spam focus abilities as possible. 

Things that need clarification 

1. Colette2. Decoys make my brain hurt. See the massive thread for all the reasons why. 
2. Sandeep2. Student of all is also equally confusing 

[Rufess]

Isn't it too early now to talk about 2023?

[Math Mathonwy]

15 minutes ago, Rufess said:

Isn't it too early now to talk about 2023?

Arcanists truly are the future!

[fire5tone]

Not enough chrome to be the future

[dancater]

Pretty much agree 100% with everything Jordan identified. 

I think Raspy-1 could get a buff on her card to allow better synergy with some of her Frozen Heart, allowing some of these models to be buffed in her lists but not in Raspy-2 who does not need it, especially not the summonable models without careful consideration.

Having said that the living Frozen Heart models all pretty much need to be looked at:

• The Silent One needs to be slightly pulled back, they are too good, especially out of keyword. 
• The Dec Acolyte needs to be able to work with Ice Pillars, not be actively inhibited by one of the crews core mechanics, they could also use a little more durability.
• The Ice Dancer is a null model, not really useful in either Raspy crews (except as a corner case summon) and useless for Colette, largely doing for high cost what the crew excels in anyway with no additional tech. Ice Dancer needs either more utility and tech or a reduction in cost, I'd prefer the former. Both in Frozen Heart and Showgirl.

Ice Gamin need love to at least be worth taking over Kaldgeist, not much, but something - perhaps they could be a big winner in a Raspy-1 rework giving them great play with Raspy-1 and a lot less in Abominable. But I'd like to see a little for both. To be honest they are also average into Elemental with Sandeep, so a very small across the board buff with a little extra love into Raspy-1 would be my ideal situation.

Hoarcats are poor in Raspy-1, bad in both Marcus iterations and have only very limited play with Raspy-2, they could use a small nudge, especially outside Raspy-2.

Snowstorm as identified needs something to increase her ranged attacks, Ice Mirror would likely be perfect.

Ox Mages and Vidya Guard suffer in that Elementals were already strong in Sandeep-1 (as summons alone) and they got nothing at all really in Sandeep-2, which leaves these two Academic selections out in exile. I'd like to see both buffed, both Sandeep crews could really use tech selections, and these guys would be excellent for that, also could be OOK repositories for specific types of tech (marker destruction, ruthless, anti-demise) that Arcanists need a little more of.

Moleman is awful and needs a lot of love, pretty much anything would help them.

Showgirls suffer from the same issue as Ice Dancers, they don't bring anything meaningful to Showgirls commensurate to their cost, and are useless OOK. The Showgirls need something more, I'd love to see them with a heal and/or a good lure.

Firebrand simply needs to either be cheaper or have better durability and a more reliable heal. Also could use positive interactions with Pyre markers like the Dec Acolytes they were against a core keyword mechanic, which sucks.

I don't play Kang, so here I have no real comment to add.

With the new titles:

Kaeris-2 and Hoffman-2 are prone to negative play experiences.

Kaeris-2 scorching radiance burn damage really badly needs to be capped, it is hideous on a unresistable front of card action in a crew which can stack burning so high, I find it unfun to play the game building a Kaeris-2 burning bomb and then unleashing it, both as the Kaeris player and as her opponent.

Also I agree the Hoff-2's Pylons need to be destructible and a shade easier to summon, I also think the up to 4 irresistible damage he can churn out is to much but maybe addressing the Pylons reduces that to a more reasonable thing, but I wouldn't mind seeing the damage becomes irreducible appearing in a trigger (I'd vote a myself).   

Also agree that the card language of both Colette-2 (hell I struggled mightily in the forum post on this cards effects) and Sandeep-2 badly need a FAQ clarification on specific core card mechanics. For Colette-2 the Routine Performance and Decoy play. For Sandeep-2 the Student of All needs a FAQ clarification. 

All of this also comes with an additional caveat, we have no idea what versatile models (especially in terms of living/construct, SS costs and interesting tech) the Arcanist starter box models will be, this could have even more important implications for our internal and external crew balance. I wonder when we will see this, the next Gen Con feels like a long way away, I hope it is before then.

[Vangerdahast]

@dancater: Healing already exist in Performer keyword (mannequin and duet), so not sure that this is the way to go. But as Showgirls have no bonus action, why not giving them Foul-Mouthed Motivation?

I think that they need a bonus action and perhaps also Hard to Kill to help them survive.

Perhaps giving them Sabotage their Plans to stay in the scheme marker style of the keyword.

 

[Math Mathonwy]

11 hours ago, Vangerdahast said:

@dancater: Healing already exist in Performer keyword (mannequin and duet), so not sure that this is the way to go. But as Showgirls have no bonus action, why not giving them Foul-Mouthed Motivation?

I think that they need a bonus action and perhaps also Hard to Kill to help them survive.

Perhaps giving them Sabotage their Plans to stay in the scheme marker style of the keyword.

I don't think that Foul-Mouthed Motivation or HtK fit their theme very well.

Would Equality of Fate be too much for them? Or maybe Eavesdrop?

[Vangerdahast]

1 hour ago, Math Mathonwy said:

I don't think that Foul-Mouthed Motivation or HtK fit their theme very well.

Would Equality of Fate be too much for them? Or maybe Eavesdrop?

Really like Eavesdrop.

But something to increase their survivability would be nice. Perhaps add one health?

 

[Mycellanious]

Personally, I think that Showgirls are in a fine spot. I think the only real thing they are lacking is a movement trick. If they had something to give them extra movement I think they would be great. 

[Rabbitknight]

Maybe Showgirls could pick up Take By the Hand, with a decent trigger effect as well?

[Morgan Vening]

On 1/8/2022 at 9:14 PM, Math Mathonwy said:

I don't think that Foul-Mouthed Motivation or HtK fit their theme very well.

Would Equality of Fate be too much for them? Or maybe Eavesdrop?

Foul-Mouthed Motivation not in theme?

If there's ANY Keyword that is perfectly attuned to acquiring "dirty talk" as an Action, it's Performers. You just need to redefine how you think "foul".

No idea if it fits them mechanically or if that's enough to fix Showgirls, but it's absolutely in theme.

[DuBlanck]

2 hours ago, Rabbitknight said:

Showgirls could pick up Take By the Hand, with a decent trigger effect as well?

TBTH, trigger to take an Interact (procs Celebrity to spread Distracted).

Doesn't solve the problem that Manipulative Wd5 is easy to kill with Focus, but at least is pseudo-maintains the barrier to attacking them.

There's probably some horrible wombocombo with putting easy movements in there though - Showgirl(+friend) can now semi-reliably Scheme-TBTH-Scheme, if the opponent lets them get somewhere where that makes sense.

I'd be all for changing the in-Keyword crew to be a little less Colette-centric though.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Take by the hand has quite a demanding TN, so is a reasonable suggestion.  There is a world of difference between take by thr hand and something like chain gang.

 

However it is also an attack, so would have to consider the implications, especially with Harata.

[DuBlanck]

2 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

However it is also an attack, so would have to consider the implications, especially with Harata.

I don't follow. Too easy to TBTH an enemy model, in perfect circumstances?

[Azahul]

Most of the existing non-Master models with foul-mouthed motivation basically just do that. It isn't something you just slap on a model for a small tweak for the sake of giving them a bonus action (at least it isn't now that Tanuki have been nerfed).

 

Eavesdrop does seem incredibly flavourful though. I like that idea.

[DuBlanck]

I'd also prefer the answer to "this model could be better" to basically never be "contribute to the proliferation of Focus spam".

[Jordon]

My main issue with the showgirl is their lack of internal synergy.

Lure is their big draw, but what is the end goal? Once they activate they give up their only defense (manipulative). They don't have a good melee attack, so drawing them closer doesn't usually make a lot of sense. Rotten Belle's at least gain fast and they are more capable fighters (also more durable) than showgirls. They also work amazing in pairs.

So unless there is a very specific scheme in which I'm trying to drag my opponent to a specific spot, why do I care about Lure? Maybe in Hoffman or Ironsides, but were playing with Colette who has no problems teleporting her and the opponent models where she needs them to be.

The other thing is that they don't really play into either version of Collette or the performers at all. Maybe if they had some special way of interacting with distracted. Like the ability to burn distracted to put the opponent on negatives to Wp duels, similar to how the Belles work.

Also a bit of a minor gripe, but I hate how the "expensive" gift" trigger doesn't allow you to draw a card. My opponent will NEVER use a soulstone unless he has no cards available. It doesn't even make sense thematically. My opponent is giving ME a card/soulstone as a gift.

All of that, plus their utter lack of defense makes them a hard pass for me.

[WildRacoon]

I have played Colette on and off over the years. I really just have started to get back into Malifaux recently and seeing so many complaints about showgirls, I figured I would add a suggestion after putting some thought into it. It seems like largely people complain about their role being ify in the crew and them being too fragile. What about giving them "Entrancing" off of Hildegard? Perhaps that would be an adjustment in the wrong direction, but I thought it might be a fun suggestion and thematic.

[Morgan Vening]

9 hours ago, WildRacoon said:

I have played Colette on and off over the years. I really just have started to get back into Malifaux recently and seeing so many complaints about showgirls, I figured I would add a suggestion after putting some thought into it. It seems like largely people complain about their role being ify in the crew and them being too fragile. What about giving them "Entrancing" off of Hildegard? Perhaps that would be an adjustment in the wrong direction, but I thought it might be a fun suggestion and thematic.

I think this is awesome.

The most common complaint about the Showgirl is that it's so easy to take out, because to get around Manipulative, you Focus, and if you Focus, your chance of taking it out significantly improves.

Heck, even a lesser version that doesn't put up an aura (ie, just affects the Showgirl), would be great. Call it "Appealing" or something.

I'd also want to give it a Bonus Action. I think all models should have a Bonus, even if it's weak. For Showgirls, a Bonus that gives it a Tome to it's duels either with a TN, or some other cost, would make all the triggers it has access to, useful. Or if that's too much, allow the Bonus to be able to use another suit as if it were a Tome, or can copy the opponent's suits, improving the chance of a flipped Tome from ~24% to closer to ~48%.

If you've got a decent Tome to force through a Hairpin, Lure, or Seduction, you're gonna be using it on something more useful than a Showgirl's action.

[Jordon]

How I'd fix the Moleman. Figure out what role its trying to fill and make sure it has the tools appropriate to its cost. 

I think it's interesting now that we have the eagle, who really gave Marcus an option of a cheap scheme runner that he definitely needed. Largely filling the gap left by the Moleman, who really wasn't fulfilling that duty. 

What I dislike about the Moleman (other than they are paper thin), is how they need other models to drop scheme markers in order for their mechanic to work. Not only is it inefficient, but it's also really messy gameplay. I really dislike abilities like this that promote spamming markers with little use outside of this one ability. It makes the board needlessly messy. If the whole crew used them, then I'd be okay with that, but they don't.  

Since we have a fast schemer with the eagle, I'd love to see the Moleman go more into a disruption role. More annoying to deal with, rather than trying to compete with the eagle as another fast scheme runner. So in light of that direction, here are some changes I'd love to see. 

 

First change would be to give it Adaptive Evolution. Since this model is not a shared keyword, there is no excuse why it doesn't have this ability. Locking upgrades can be very detrimental to Marcus and even with AE, its not something that's going to be overly efficient on a model with such a lacklustre melee. 

Second change would be to replace Burrow with Fade Away (built in). You could be a little more clever and give it a unique ability called "Whack a Mole" which reduces a melee attack to 0 and buries it. The difference being that it only works on a melee attack whereas Fade Away works on all attacks but you will at least take 1 damage regardless. 

Third change would be to change Network of Tunnels to target any marker, not just scheme markers. Also unburying would discard said marker (so some marker removal). 

Forth change would be to replace Tunnelling with Dig the Trenches. This would not have the built in suit, so you'd either need the tome, or burn an upgrade via adaptive evolution. 

These changes would make the Moleman more of a annoyance, wasting melee attacker actions, removing enemy markers, providing some crew support. They'd still be fragile, especially to shooting and suck in melee. Seems like a decent option at 4ss and provides a unique role within the Chimera keyword.  I'd still probably suggest giving them +1Wd as well 

[TeddyBear]

a curiosity please, what position is the marcus crew in overall? it seems to me super performing currently or am I wrong? maybe it is not played a lot in tournaments?

[Maniacal_cackle]

23 minutes ago, TeddyBear said:

a curiosity please, what position is the marcus crew in overall? it seems to me super performing currently or am I wrong? maybe it is not played a lot in tournaments?

When I soloed Marcus in a tournament it was one of my best tournament results xD

[Math Mathonwy]

To me Marcus feels a bit like Pandora in that he is generally very powerful but has some very rough match-ups and some of his keyword are quite lackluster. So care must be taken in buffing those so as not to make the Master accidentally too dominant.

(Though in the post-Titles world and with errata likely not touching the Titles I guess that is not a relevant worry anymore...)

[Jordon]

I also feel like Marcus varies more than most since he access to different beasts in each faction. So your Neverborn experience may not represent your Arcanist experience.

One thing you can count on is that Moleman are terrible in either faction.