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Jordon last won the day on July 8 2018

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  1. Strategy: Plant Explosives Schemes: Breakthrough: Ironsides, Kaeris Vendetta: Assassinate: Ironsides, Kaeris Detonate Charges: Hold their Forces: Deployment: Flank Crews Kaeris - Magical Training Eternal Flame Sandeep Banasuva Fire Golem Fire Gamin x2 Ironsides Mouse The Captain Langston Mech Rider Gunsmith x2 Turn 1 Gamin walked and focused Captain walked, created a wind wall and charged the gamin doing 2 damage and knocking it towards Ironsides crew. Gamin walked and focused Mouse walks and gives Toni adrenaline. He tried shooting a gamin but BJ. He then accomplice into a gunsmith (giving focus). Gunsmith creeps forward, walks and shoots the Golem doing 4 damage and injured +1 Kaeris used run and gun on the captain but missed due to the windwall. She used fan the flames and hit the captain and gunsmith. The gunsmith took 2 damage. She then created 2 pyre markers and walked into one of them. Mech uses ride with me on the gunsmith. She then walks and charges the Fire Golem doing 4 damage. Golem focuses, dropping a pyre. Then teleports to Kaeris. He then smacks the captain who stones the damage to 1 and pushes away. Gunsmith double walked Banasuva tosses Sandeep and walks through a pyre. He commands a Fire Gamin to shoot, burning his focus and doing 2 damage Langston uses trail of gore to walk. He then charges the Golem who RJ. He then takes a third swing but missed. Sandeep focuses doing a damage to the Captain. He then swings on the captain doing 2 damage and finally summoning a poison gamin Ironsides activates, walks and uses I’ve Got Your Back on a gunsmith. She then charges a poison gamin but missed. She then uses Bring It on the Golem, who misses. Toni uses her Df trigger and RJ the damage, killing the Golem. The Golem could not place a pyre marker Eternal Flame double walked and tried moving a pyre marker but failed. Turn 2 Kaeris uses on the Pyre and gets the trigger to drop 2 markers. She uses run and gun on a gunsmith bringing him to his H2K. She then drops a strategy marker. She shoots the gunsmith again but misses Mouse activates and heals the gunsmith, getting the trigger, healing 3. He heals again for 1. He takes the action again and again gets the trigger, healing him for 2 and fails to get it off on the trigger. He tries to give Toni adrenaline but BJ. He accomplice into Ironsides Ironsides attacks the poison gamin using the focus plus 2 adrenaline, cheating a severe to kill the poison gamin. She then charged Sandeep (through a pyre), doing 1 damage. She used intimidation, successfully tagging a Fire Gamin and Banasuva. She uses Second Wind to remove poison, burning and injured. Banasuva charges The Captain and misses the first. He connects with the second, doing 2 damage, but the Captain got his Df trigger. He then commanded a gamin to move within 1” of Langston and into a pyre marker. The Captain pushed 2” and then walked and dropped an strategy marker Fire Gamin tries attacking Langston but fails the terrifying. It tries again, passes and hit’s, getting a RJ and doing 4 damage. It then uses Pyre heart to heal Mech Rider walked and dropped a strategy marker and then used it’s free action to drop a scheme marker Sandeep summons a Fire Gamin. He then focuses as a free action and swings on Ironsides. He BJ the damage and took 2 back from Ironsides. He then disengaged from Ironsides. Langston used trail of gore to disengage from the gamin and engaged Kaeris. He swung twice but missed Summoned gamin activates and removes the other two gamin to form a Fire Golem. The Golem swings at Mouse, killing him in 1 shot. Gunsmith uses creep along to disengage from the golem and shoots him twice, hitting once for 2 damage (after burning reduction) Eternal flame moves a pyre marker onto Ironsides and double walks Gunsmith drops a strategy marker and creeps back towards Langston and charges Kaeris, getting the armour piercing trigger and doing 2 damage Ironsides score 1 for the strategy and 1 for breakthrough. Kaeris scores 1 for the strategy. The Captain burns a stone to prevent death from burning. Turn 3 Captain charges Sandeep but missed twice Kaeris burned a stone and used up we go on a gunsmith placing him in a pyre, then pushing him and Langston 2”. She used run and gun on the gunsmith and RJ the damage. She then dropped another strategy marker and created 2 more pyre markers Gunsmith fires at Kaeris, missing once but hitting the second, doing 1 damage thanks to shielded. Banasuva charges Captain and kills him. He then Tosses Sandeep and commands the Fire Golem to fire tornado Langston and a Gunsmith. The smith passes but Langston fails Langston charges Kaeris and gets the RJ, but BJ the damage. He swings again doing 2 damage and pushing her 3”. He uses trail of gore to swing again but misses Golem tries teleporting to a gunsmith but fails. It then charges Ironsides hitting for 2 damage (after adrenaline reduction) He swings again and misses. He take 2 damage in return (after burning reduction) Mech uses her free action to drop a scheme marker and then walks and charges Sandeep, doing severe damage. Sandeep stones and uses shielded to prevent 4 damage, taking only 1 Eternal flame double walks and moves a marker onto Kaeris and Howard Gunsmith charges Kaeris, hits and does 3 damage. He hits the second time but Kaeris stones away all the damage Sandeep disengages from the Mech and walks and shoots mech for 1 damage. Ironsides attacks the Fire Golem three times, killing it and then uses second wind to remove the burning Ironsides scores 1 for the strategy and 1 for assassinate. Kaeris scores 1 for the strategy. Gunsmith dies to burning. Turn 4 Kaeris used Up We Go on Langston with the trigger to push both him and the gunsmith. She then tried shooting Howard but BJ. She tried her last shot and killed Howard. She created a Pyre Mech dropped a strategy marker, dropped a scheme marker and then used her free action to drop another scheme marker Sandeep walked and dropped a strategy marker. He then summoned two fire gamin Gunsmith shoots Kaeris twice, burning her last stone, she lives with 1wd Banasuva charged Ironsides but missed twice, taking 3 damage for his troubles. He tried commanding a gamin but failed Ironsides activates and punches Banasuva using her adrenaline, killing him. She charged the summoned gamin, using adrenaline, gets it to 1 wd and then punches the other, also getting it to 1 wd Fire Gamin attacked Ironsides for 1 damage and 1 burning but dies to her Df trigger Other gamin attacked Ironsides, getting RJ and doing 2 damage and 2 burning and died to the Df trigger Eternal Flame uses flaming detonation twice, succeeding once, doing 1 damage and a burning to Ironsides. It then threw a pyre onto Ironsides for more burning Kaeris scores 1 for assassinate and 1 for the strategy. Ironsides score 1 for the strategy and 1 for assassinate as Kaeris ended up dying from burning ironically enough Turn 5 Mech walks and charges Sandeep, burning a bunch of tokens to fill his hand. She then used her free action to shuffle cards back into her deck Sandeep focuses and swings at mech but misses. He swings twice more and misses Ironsides walks and swings on Sandeep doing 3 damage and injured. She swings again and with Sandeep only on 1wd, she RJ the damage and knocks his head right off Gunsmith walks and removes one of the strategy markers The game is called there. The Eternal flame died to burning, effectively tabling the opponent. Ironsides scores 1 for breakthough. Ironsides wins 7 - 4 Thoughts: Holy Hell the amount of Pyre Markers was ludicrous... I think I ended the game with 15 on the board, and there would have been more if I had room to actually place them. Despite that, it was a good game with both crew's trading momentum. Kaeris: So right off the bat, I like the new change to injured/Third Degree. I played a similar match a few weeks back and was effectively able to neutralize Ironsides due to injured. Not so much this time around and to be honest most of the models didn't even really care about injured at all which made Kaeris and crew feel more vulnerable. Ultimately, I'd say the injured change nerfed her a bit, but she did get some compensation so it's not all bad. What felt good: Most turns started off the same with Kaeris using Up We Go to clear out engagements then creating a pyre and running and gunning to that pyre. This makes her able to pull double duty as a late game scheme runner and general nuisance to the opponent. I like the flexibility of and reliability of Kaeris. With burning and injured support she can hit quite reliably and is able to take a decent amount of abuse. What felt bad: She died to burning!!! Seriously that should not happen.... I wish she had a passive ability that allowed her and those around her to be immune to burning damage. Blaze of Glory is fantastic but your almost always going to end up taking damage for it. Maybe it's worth it, but man does it feel risky when you're on your last few wounds and you end up taking damage from your own condition. I know Firebranded can help, but honestly I don't want models to be "auto include" and I want Kaeris to function without them Damage also felt very middling on Kaeris. She can mess with models quite a bit, but when it comes to heavy listing, she just wasn't really cutting it. I think her and Ironsides share a similar fate in that their are slaves to their respective conditions. First off, I barely used Conflagration because its just not as good as her other abilities. I only used it in conjunction with Run and Gun as a free shot effectively. She desperately needs another free action. By turn the end of turn 1 I had all the pyre makers I needed and from there "on the pyre" was mostly pointless and I just used it because it was free. I had mentioned giving her old "flare" ability from M2E. It's nothing epic but a nice alternative when Pyre's aren't a priority anymore. Also on a more meta note, someone might not have an infinite supply of pyre markers so giving her another free action helps those newer players who might not have a stockpile of 50mm markers laying around Overall: I really do feel like she's close. She's just missing a few little things that would really make her feel complete. A large portion of her works great but she still feels like she's lacking a solid identity for herself. Just a few tweaks would solidify her in my mind Suggestions: Change Smoulder to give positives to damage instead of +1 damage and give her a 2/3/5 damage track. I think I like Kaeris as a "consistency" master who is more about doing very reliable damage rather than lots of damage. Currently Smoulder is a lesser Crit strike. Let Ironsides be the +1/2 damage master and give Kaeris something different More Pyre markers! This game is a bad example but in every other game without Banasuva, she's starved for pyre markers. If she needs them offensively and for support, then she'll need more Replace the Blaze trigger. It's never going to be used and burning is way easier via pyre markers and Df triggers. She needs a bit more utility so this would be a good place to see it Fire immunity would be a nice to have. It's not a complete mandatory thing that SHE MUST HAVE but it really feels bad having the burning master die from burning Sandeep: He was okay but I can't really give him much more than that. He really hates being engaged and shielded doesn't go very far on a 10Wd Df5 master with no other Df tricks. Once engaged his Gada is okay at best. The trigger is the real reason to take it, otherwise it's pretty poor. I just felt like he spent most of the game trying to escape combat instead of helping. Summons were great but that was really his biggest contribution and I'm uncertain I got his SS worth out of him. Maybe it was the list I was facing but he just always felt in danger. What felt good: Overall I really like Sandeep's utility. He has some good tools when he's able to use them properly. I also tried the Golem summon and it was very cool. It probably wasn't the best competitive move as it really opened him up to be attacked easier but it was really fun and the Golem gave some much needed muscle. What felt bad: He's seriously fragile. Like leagues behind the rest of the arcanist masters. I know he's supposed to be played with plenty of protection, but it's pretty easy for models to sneak by and it doesn't take long to get him down to his final few wounds. I also am not a fan of his Mantra. Auto damage as a Mantra doesn't feel very thematic, but besides that, it doesn't really do much for Sandeep who really REALLY doesn't want to be anywhere near combat. I would much prefer it if this model could heal as he desperately needs defensive tech and it feels a bit more thematic Overall: I do like Sandeep but he can be pretty unforgiving and I feel like he'll have some serious challenges against flying/incorporeal/pushing models that can get through his lines. Suggestion: Switch Mantra (Healing) on the Ox Mages for his Mantra (fury). I think both models will be better for it He could probably use +1Wd or maybe manipulative Banasuva: He's a solid model all around. Decent in Melee and some great support abilities like toss and command elements. But for the love of god PLEASE change his mantra. It was obnoxious the amount of pyre markers I was able to put out. Kaeris really needs more, but not like this.... If I had more room, I could have easily breached 20+ pyre markers this game and I only had 3 elementals max at one time. I can imagine this getting really bonkers in an elemental heavy list. Suggestion: Change his Mantra to simply give burning - or have some other interaction with gamin (he is kind of the king of them after all) Eternal Flame: Seriously how does this model not have burning immunity?!? It really sucks that both my master and totem died to burning. I can somewhat somewhat understand Kaeris (though it still sucks) but this guy is actually called the "eternal FLAME". Even the model is on fire. There's no good excuse for this model to suffer burning damage. Otherwise I think he's great Suggestion Either just give him strait up immunity. Or allow him and those around him to heal burning instead of suffer it (would also fix Kaeris as well) Fire Gamin/Golem I'm lumping these two together as I have the same notes for each. I think their both excellent models that can work great with little support. However they really need help early game and without burning they die so incredibly fast. The gamin can be somewhat forgiven since it's a 4ss model but the golem can get alpha'd and will get wrecked. It feels especially bad on the golem since his defences are basically the exact same as the gamin albeit with +1Df. Suggestion Fire Gamin's Flaming Body should give burning +2 at the start of the game (not when summoned) Fire Golem should replace Flaming Body with Molten Body which gives burning +3 at the start of the game and allows him to reduce up to 3 damage. Ironsides: She had moments of greatness but was totally reliant on Adrenaline to work properly. I do like all her abilities and how she works with Adrenaline but I find she's just a tad starved for it, especially early game. I noticed that in order to make the most of her, you really need to focus on offence over defence. Adrenaline doesn't do enough defensively and using that way just makes for a weak activation. She needs to spend 2-3 turns building it up, hopefully not dying in the process and then unleash it all in 1 huge turn. That seems to currently be the best way to use her, which probably isn't for the best What looked good Getting Adrenaline 6+ allows for 1 magical turn of damage. The rest of her abilities have good utility while you wait to replenish adrenaline. Unionized, and injured workers act both got a lot of good usage. Her Df trigger is fantastic and did a lot of work this game. What looked bad Her melee attack only feels worth it when using the Follow Through trigger, any other trigger just feels meh by comparison. Adrenaline is too precious a resource to spend it on Pumped Up and it needs to go further. Overall: She's really close IMO. She suffers from the same issue as Kaeris in that she relies on one mechanic to pull double duty and there just not quite enough to go around. I think with a few very minor adjustments, she's be in a great spot. Suggestion: Warm up should be built in the same as Follow Through. The easiest way would be to simply change Warm Up to a . The problem currently is that 2/3/4 and adrenaline +1 doesn't feel worthy of a master action. I'd much rather try and gain adrenaline on her Df trigger. However if I flipped (in this case) a ram and was able to gain 2 adrenaline with a single card, then I'd probably consider taking that trigger, It would also help her gain adrenaline just a little bit faster. Pump Up should reduce by 2 per adrenaline (max of 1 adrenaline). As compensation, it could probably be to a minimum of 1. Currently it's not worth the trade but with having it reduce by 2, then it's worth using and would help her keep a better stockpile of adrenaline. Min of 1 prevents abuse. The Captain: I like everything he did. He hit hard, supported the crew, and got where he needed to drop a marker, Not really much more you can ask for out of a model. He's got a great Grit ability and his Df trigger keeps him very mobile. He does however go down pretty quick if you can manage to lock him down. However I feel like that's a fair compromise for what you get out of him. No complaints, he's solid Howard Langston: I wish I could say the same for Howard but I found him to be struggling most of this game and I actually kind of ignored him with Kaeris, finding the Gunsmiths to be the bigger threat. I just don't feel like he's a good fit for Ironsides. Early grit is great but it often puts him out of range on later turns. Vent Steam is nearly useless in this list. His melee is alright but that's really all I can say about it and an armoured target like Kaeris withstood his attacks without much to fear. It seems like he looses almost nothing in a Hoff list while abilities like Vent Steam and Power Tokens (nearly half his card) do nothing for Ironsides. Suggestion: Replace Vent Steam with something that will benefit Ironsides over Hoff. He's a spider, lets give him unimpeded at the very least. Gunsmiths: These guys were great. Highly mobile and always threatening. They got so much going on and even though they can't take much of a punch, they still feel like good bargain. They're expensive but I do think your going to see them a lot with Ironsides No complaints, they're solid Mouse: So much utility packed into this 4ss model. The healing is so great for M&SU and he definitely pulled his weight. Extra adrenaline, free focus, a friendly fire ranged attack, he's got it all. The only downside is that he dies to a stiff breeze. However he should never see combat so I feel like it's a fair trade. No complaints, he's solid. Mech Rider: She earned a lot of VP and late game sculpted a pretty sweet hand/deck. I do like most of what Mech does, she just doesn't interact with much for such a high cost model. Her final trigger needing all those tomes AND needing pass tokens AND within 6" feels way too restrictive to the point where it's rarely ever going to work/be useful, while maybe very occasionally feeling way OP. I also love her free action which will give a lot of milage in a lot of different archaist lists Suggestion Giving her a ranged attack would go a long way in making her feel a bit more interactive. Her final trigger should change to something not affected by pass tokens
  2. Jordon

    Mech Rider

    I also played it today and while it scored the bulk of my VP, I just couldn't get the final trigger off due to me not having any pass tokens. I'm not going to say she was worthless as she's a very effective scheme runner. In fact I really like Mech Rider, I just wish her final trigger was better. Oh also I think she'd be so much better if her Chain Spear was a ranged attack. With her running flanks most of the time, it feels like she doesn't contribute much to the fight. Giving her a 8" with gunfighter would go a long way IMO (even if she looses out on the 2" melee for gunfighter)
  3. Although it's the opposite in Captain Planet since all the different elements come together to form Captain Planet, whereas the upgrade requires all the same element to form a captain golem
  4. I just tried out Sandeep today actually (post coming shortly) and I decided to try out the new Golem summon and it was pretty cool. Not busted, not lame, but an option, and options are good. In my case I feel like I would have gotten more work out of the three gamin but it was an interesting change up that shifted up the game a bit. Someone might be able to bust it somehow but I found it to be just alright.
  5. Jordon

    Mech Rider

    I also have not ever gotten the final trigger of Revel in Creation. I feel like the pass tokens are what makes it an issue for me. There's really no guarantee you'll have them which makes it highly situational compared to the other Horsemen. It also seems the most at odds with the rest of her card.
  6. So while I think the new change to Kaeris is a positive one, it doesn't actually address any of the problems that I've experienced or have been seeing others experience. Pyre's were great and still are now. Timing is going to be a lot more important however as now the opponent need only activate their key models late in the turn to mitigate the effectiveness of Injured. If a big beater ends up being the final activation, gaining injured has no effect on them. The big complaint I'm seeing seeing from Kaeris is Not enough Pyre's, forcing her to split her focus from attacking or supporting. She can't do both Not enough burning interaction. Burning is almost exclusively used as damage, which is the poorest form of damage I still feel like Kaeris is having an identity crisis. What does she actually do? With all the focus seeming to be on Pyre markers, is she board control? Doesn't Raspy do it better? Is it damage? How does it compare to other damage crews? Conflagration still seems inefficient and with Pyre's being the focus, it doesn't compete well with Fan the Flames or Up We Go. She needs another free action as late game, Pyre production is usually not as relevant. I know were going to be sitting on this version for a while but here are a few suggestions I think could help answer a few of these concerns Kaeris: Smoulder: Reduce the burning condition by any amount (to a maximum of 3 burning). This model gains a to damage for each value of the condition lowered. Change Conflagration to 2/3/5 Replace the Blaze trigger with Blinding Light: Target gains Staggered On the Pyre: Create a Pyre Marker anywhere within range. Reduce the burning condition by 3 on any model within range to instead place that Pyre marker in base contact with that model, Flare: Ca6 TN11 Rg4: All models within range gain burning +1 Purifying Flame: Friendly models within 6 do not suffer damage from burning. Friendly models that activate within range may reduce their burning by 1 to heal 1. Fire Branded: Drawn to flame: At the start of this models activation it may push 3" towards the closest Pyre Marker. PyreMancer: Enemy models with the burning condition within 1" of this model count as having their burning condition as +1 or +2 if they are touching a Pyre Marker. The reasons To change Kaeris damage from the pseudo crit strike and instead focus on damage spiking (with a slight increase on the damage track). Pyre markers can reduce burning on models to place created markers in base contact, this should make marker placement more efficient so while it doesnt increase the amount, it makes the ones created, more effective. Blinding Light gives staggered which could help with preventing people escaping Pyre markers. Flare would give another free action and could be used as support of offensive. Purifying Flame grants immunity to burning and actually gives a pseudo regen. This helps with the ways were trying to mitigate burning damage on friendly models and also makes keeping her mobile a higher priority.
  7. First off, the Captain Planet reference is HIGHLY appreciated and I'm super happy to see this little funny nod to a near and dear cartoon of my past. Oh and the ability itself looks awesome. We'll need to see how it performs. The Kaeris buff is appreciated but there is still a fundamental flaw with how her crew currently operates. Making Pyre's more efficient offensively is great but there is a real need to use them to support the crew. With only two pyre's and possibly 1 more from Carlos (not built in), it's simply not enough to do what you want with them. She needs more Pyre Markers. Also, I'd really love to see the burning condition have a bit more of a purpose within the crew itself. I agree that the "Trick of the Hat" trigger is somewhat pointless now and not worth the sacrifice of a scheme marker - or worth giving the opponent a pass token. I like the trigger but it should go onto one of her other abilities Langston getting terrifying is a nice adjustment, I'm not sure it makes him a better fit with Ironsides as it's just an overall buff. I'm still disappointed with the lack of spider abilities. Draw out secrets is a great trigger but it's in the wrong spot IMO. Every time I play Firestarter, he's often way far away from any action. Now if Kaeris or the Firebranded had this as a trigger I'd be elated.
  8. Poor Kaeris... it's the constant changing of conditions that has gotten her in this awkward spot to begin with. She got to a point in CB, then burning drastically changed. She got revamped with pyre's and then hazardous changed. Now her most powerful gimmick (injured) is also changing. This gal just cant catch a break.... Oh well, that's why it's called testing. 😁
  9. Meanwhile the enemy crew is doing what? 😁
  10. I think that we'll have to wait and see how the newly proposed injured works before we can continue discussion on Kaeris. I sort of feel like the best parts of Kaeris right now is mostly due to the strength of injured. Seems like it's a hot topic right now so unless Kaeris is planning on changing from her reliance on injured to something else, we'll just have to wait until the condition is finalized before I can comment on Kaeris again.
  11. I'm on board with the proposed changes to Focus and Stunned (distracted just seems to be a clarification?). However Injured looks like it's a too complicated, heavily restrictive and basically feels like a different flavor of distracted (but not as good). It sort of feels like were veering away from what the initial condition is thematically about. Just spitballing here but what if it were instead a non stacking condition that simply lowered all stats (Health, Mv, Df, Wp) by 1. Ends at the end of the turn
  12. I feel like the whole "bonus" mechanic of the upgrades should be relegated to "leaders" as that makes the most sense anyway - and it brings back a bit of that master customization from M2E. Minions should go back to being unable to equip upgrades pre-game, which would then put Enforcers back into their proper rank. I feel like that would make balancing so much easier.
  13. Jordon


    That's an interesting take. Personally I wouldn't think to compare these masters as I feel like they're doing very different things. Yes Sonnia is outright better as a damage dealer - I think she's supposed to be. Raspy has shifted from ranged damage into a very effective board control master that is more about wasting the opponents actions than outright trying to kill them. VP's win games and Raspy is brutal when it comes to denying them. At least that has been my experience thus far using her.
  14. The issue for me is that we are trying to make an upgrade feel balanced and worth the 2ss cost without factoring in the minion bonuses. Then you add that minion bonus as an incentive to put this upgrade on a less optimal model. However this balance goes out the window when you start looking at 8+SS minions who are by all accounts "enforcer" levels of power. They get the regular benefits of the upgrade that would normally apply to all other Enforcers, but now they also get this additional (often powerful) secondary effect simply because they are a minion. It's going to lead to situations where upgrades will almost be stapled to certain models. Trying to balance upgrades around these 7-10 high cost minion models is needlessly complicating things when they seem like they're clearly designed for weaker ones. My concern is whether we are looking at models like say the Cerberus and balancing them based on their base card, or whether were looking at this through the lenses of the Soulstone Cache upgrade that is 90% going to be stapled to it's card. If we made some of these models Enforcers, then would that affect your likelihood of hiring them?
  15. Having not a ton of experience with Jack I might be spouting non sense here. While I do agree that his crew seems to be lacking a good dedicated scheme runner. I also think that it's not entirely needed for Jack. Just based on how he operates by spamming lots of staggered, card drain and decent damage output. He's a really good anti scheme crew. So while it might be tough grabbing certain VP, it's also going to be tough for the opponent as they get bogged down trying to deal with Jacks shut down shenanigans. At least that has been my limited experience with him so far
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