Give me some insight on Leveticus please

[Zebo]

7 minutes ago, Adran said:

Killing the desolation engine means that the last unmade doesn't resolve

Really is that the timing? The after resolving effects doesn't apply if the model is killed?

[Adran]

Just now, Zebo said:

Really is that the timing? The after resolving effects doesn't apply if the model is killed?

After resolving:

These Triggers happen after the Action is complete, regardless of success or failure, but only if the model that declared the Trigger is still in play. If the Trigger has a target and that target is no longer in play, the Trigger has no effect.

[Jafar]

Last week I had game VS Parker. Same crew as vs Mei, but gave SoDP to Deso Engine. I must say that Deso worked in this game, opponent used many of cards- only to pass WP tests.

New things learned

- hard counter to Levi is to leave him on 2 wounds, unable to deal dmg for bonuses, unable to easily die I think that someone said same thing in one of topics (maybe even this one)

- crew was quite slow. Parker had pushes and that perk to move and shot for 1 AP. Nice trick was to give fast to Deso Engine (Scavenger action) and charge into enemy group.

[ttsgosadow]

I think that you can kill yourself with Sanguine Invocations. Or what I heard on Schemes & Stones essence transfer your waif to 1 go and keep going!

[Deathinabox]

On 10/22/2019 at 8:30 AM, ttsgosadow said:

I think that you can kill yourself with Sanguine Invocations.

The wording on this is really weird. I'd love if this could get FAQ'd at some point.

[Davos]

You can't.  Its somewhere in the rules, and Kyle said it again with the drop of GG0 - you cannot kill yourself with an ability or action.

[solkan]

On 10/22/2019 at 9:30 AM, ttsgosadow said:

I think that you can kill yourself with Sanguine Invocations. Or what I heard on Schemes & Stones essence transfer your waif to 1 go and keep going!

At the moment Sanguine Evocations is existing in a loop hole.  Because the rules that prevent a model killing itself prevent effects like "may suffer X damage to discard X cards" but don't prevent "Suffer 1 damage for each discarded card."

Quote

Choosing to Suffer Damage

Some models in Malifaux may generate effects that require them to suffer damage, such as the cost of an Action, or an Ability that may be used by suffering damage. A model can never choose to suffer damage this way if that damage would reduce their Health to 0 or below.

That's the rule that prevents almost every situation where a model tries to kill itself by inflicting damage on itself.  (It's what prevents a model killing itself for the rulebook and Gaining Ground versions of Corrupted Idol.  The sentence "A model may not suffer more damage than its current Health." in the rulebook version of Corrupted Idols is redundant and not strictly necessary.

But "Choosing to Suffer Damage" doesn't prevent all of the ways a model can kill itself.  For instance, pretty much any model with a Shockwave attack can kill themselves if their health is low enough and they place the shockwave right next to themselves.  And for Sanguine Invocations, the damage is specified as a consequence of discarding the cards, not a cost.

(Likewise, the rules don't prevent a model committing suicide by activating and taking actions in hazardous terrain.  Or an Oni using 'From Beyond' enough times to be certain it will be killed at the end of its activation.  Or for that matter, The Lone Swordsman isn't preventing using Last Breath below 5 health.)

That means, among other things, that Leveticus with only 1 wound left doesn't have anything preventing him from discarding three cards.

You can start an Errata Pool if you want concerning whether that action is going to get rewritten, or FAQ'd, if you'd like.  But if the damage in that action is supposed to be a cost, I'm pretty sure that would make it the only cost in the game paid after the fact.  And the Lone Swordsman's action would sort of require it to be individually FAQ'd or errata'd.

[ttsgosadow]

This wo

16 hours ago, Davos said:

You can't.  Its somewhere in the rules, and Kyle said it again with the drop of GG0 - you cannot kill yourself with an ability or action.

This would be very interesting. Meaning you can't attack someone with black blood while on 1 wound and within 1", for example. So many options here that just doesn't make a ruling on this level work. What if I choose to discard three cards while on 3 sounds intending to stone? I could flip black joker and die. So I can't choose to do that unless the black joker has been accounted for?

The current ruling works fine; you can't pay a cost that kills you. But you cab do stuff that kills yourself indirectly. Like moving into hazardous terrain when at 1 wd.

Solkan said the same. People are adding too much own interpretation.

[SoulGambit]

Leveticus in to Reckoning is just unfair. Either the opponent techs specifically against you with Lantern of Souls spam or you run over them.

Put Soldier for Hire on Levi and it is almost impossible to take him down. Add in two Desolation Engines and Ashes and Dust. Now you have a range of beaters that, when they die, they don't die. You have 19ss left for cache and scheme runners. Scavengers are probably your stock choice. I love Alyce, but its hard to bring a Henchman in to Reckoning.

[Jesy Blue]

My friend who plays Levi & Jack once took a Reckoning list with Desolation, Ashes & Dust, Midnight Stalker, Montresor, and a full 10 cache.... I couldn't kill a damned thing!

[Davos]

I love Servant on Levi, gets him into the action right away, and honestly I want my opponont wasting AP on him turn 1, since you deal the damage back.  I personally think Rusty is worth bringing in every game over a Deso (they die sooo easily), even in Reckoing, she is actually insanely hard to kill, and she is a walking gun turrent that compliments Levi or A&D insanely well

[sakurazuka38]

How many abominations is usually needed in Levi crew ? Because I own the 4 of the old box so I’m curious if I try to grab 4 another or it’s unlikely I will ever play more than that ?

[Jkkb]

9 hours ago, sakurazuka38 said:

How many abominations is usually needed in Levi crew ? Because I own the 4 of the old box so I’m curious if I try to grab 4 another or it’s unlikely I will ever play more than that ?

You really should never hire them so the 4 you got should be enough

[AskM3L8r]

@Davos

What kinds of things scare Leveticus? 

[Davos]

Honestly I’m my opinion, not a ton. I really only get leery about From the Shadows people popping Waifs or things that can pop out deep in my territory (Miners) to pick them off

[Clement]

7 minutes ago, Davos said:

Honestly I’m my opinion, not a ton. I really only get leery about From the Shadows people popping Waifs or things that can pop out deep in my territory (Miners) to pick them off

Any experience with Manos, Datsue Ba, or Charm Warders trying to ruin your day?   They'd wreck Leveticus' demise plans.

[Davos]

1 minute ago, Clement said:

Any experience with Manos, Datsue Ba, or Charm Warders trying to ruin your day?   They'd wreck Leveticus' demise plans.

A bunch actually. But they’re all pretty easy to anticipate, and since you KNOW TT or Ressers are bring them you can anticipate it. I’ve played against it enough I don’t super mind it. Just drop A&D for something non-demise. And play Levi a little more cagey. 

I’d say Manos is a little more difficult due to the leap, so he’s one you need to be more defensive against 

[Bisounours]

20 hours ago, Davos said:

A bunch actually. But they’re all pretty easy to anticipate, and since you KNOW TT or Ressers are bring them you can anticipate it. I’ve played against it enough I don’t super mind it. Just drop A&D for something non-demise. And play Levi a little more cagey. 

I’d say Manos is a little more difficult due to the leap, so he’s one you need to be more defensive against 

What do you bring for Non-Demise models? The only one I’m tempted to reach for OOK is Midnight stalker and he’s yet another demise piece.

[Adran]

Sometimes that extra demise model that they have to try and deal with is enough to mean they can't use the anti demise against Levi.