Let's Talk About Fight Night.

[Kalkris]

Hey all,

 

I just played my first game with the Dreamer in M2E since beta ended, my first story encounter, my first game against Wong, and my first Turn 1 scoop-by-NPE.

 

So, the story is this: My buddy and I were facing off with Fight Night as the scenario. He chose Gremlins as his 50ss faction while I chose Neverborn. He picked Wong, and I picked the Dreamer (summon style, but that's irrelevant here for reasons understood soon). His wrestler was Mancha Roja (keeping true to the likes of fluff) while my own was Teddy (also hoping to stay true to fluff while making sure I could possibly be bulky and win). Mancha Roja was also the target of Wong's "Glowy," which made him Magical (as irrelevant as Dreams of Pain, mentioned above, for the same reasons). Schemes were also entirely a non-issue. Standard Deployment, and he deployed first, both with Mancha Roja and his team. I deployed Teddy a bit closer to my deployment but still in base contact with the luchador. The Dreamer and co. were deployed and the game began.

 

I won initiative.

 

All chaos broke loose from there.

 

I activated first with the Dreamer, who was roughly vertically alligned with Teddy. I walked up, and walked a little more (a misplay, I noted after the game ended, as I was then within 6" of Teddy) and used Empty Night. Flipped a mask, which meant nothing due to a built-in mask, but a value that I required. No need to cheat from there. Teddy swung at Mancha Roja and dealt him a (negatively-twisted) moderate of 4, which was not given any stone-based prevention (that was one of his misplays, as he soon realized). Because of a double walk and Empty Night (as well as no need for a (0) action), I ended with Dreamer.

 

However, the relevant upgrade which the Dreamer had (as opposed to Dreams of Pain) was Otherworldly. This allowed Teddy to Accomplice the Dreamer directly after. Teddy used Gobble You Up, which worked. Smell Fear went off. This missed. I discarded a measly 5T for Flurry. The first attack worked, dealing 6 damage from a Red-Joker-formed straight flip into a cheated severe (my foe burned a soulstone, finally realizing Roja's Henchman characteristic, and prevented 1 of the 6). Roja was down to a single wound. I attacked again. Not wishing to lose Rojaor the wrestling match, he cheated high enough for me to whiffe attack 2. Attack 3 dealt Weak of 3, and my foe prevented 2 of it, which meant that Roja was downed. My bet and his bet were both revealed. I put all of my eggs in this basket (despite my first ever use of Teddy) and bet 4VP. My foe bet 3.

 

This was the first thing done in this game. My foe called it there. He hadn't gone with a single model, or did anything but defend in vain.

 

There is something wrong here.

 

The first issue we could find was that Tactical Actions can still target the wrestlers, both friendly and enemy. Empty Night is a Tactical Action and did wonders for Teddy.

 

There's more to it, too, though. No models may target wrestler models with Attack Actions, nor can the wreslters attack non-wrestlers. There is a) nothing to be said about the duration that this applies (thus an indestructible Teddy except by way of Tactical Actions, Abilities, Pulses, Auras, Blasts, and Conditions - some of which were prevalent in my foe's crew but not nearly enough to keep my foe from being heavily discouraged, especially because I wasn't going to summon with my master, and I would keep close to Teddy with him, effectively giving Teddy Regeneration +5) and there is nothing that says the wrestlers cannot take Interacts or other Tactical Actions, with Interacts being the key here. I assume that the game intends for a prolonged duration of engagement, but I had ALitS revealed and because Teddy was roughly on the center line I knew that if I killed Mancha Roja I could get a few markers down for it. This plus nigh-indestructibility is obviously a problem.

 

Now, another friend who bore full witness to this claims that this one game could be a complete outlier to the main gist of the Fight Night games that are happening right now. I politely disagree. I think that if I can make an opponent (a seasoned player, both of this edition, of the last edition, and of Gremlins in general) scoop T1 before he has done anything but flip initiative and watch me get 4VP in 2 simple activations, there is a huge problem.

 

My question is simple: is there any way that this scenario can recieve the following erratas (one I can word, the other I cannot):

 

1) remove "Attack Action" from the clause where models can't target the Wrestlers, and replace it with "Actions". This prohibits most (but sadly not all) suppot shenanigans from nearby models. I think that is fair.

 

2) Once the players' bets are revealed, thus ending the "wrestling match," have the Wrestlers be able to be targetted as normal and be able to attack as normal, as now they are part of the bigger skirmish. This prevents the "indestructible Teddy" scenario which has happened, and will most likely happen again, from happening anymore. I mean really, who wants an unkillable Teddy mucking about, even if it can't attack?

 

Are these even possible to retroactively implement? I have no idea. If not, I will simply institute them as house rules for my LGS, and my home. But I strongly suggest that this scenario be re-examined because NPEs are horrible, even when you are winning.

 

~Lil Kalki

[Hateful Darkblack]

The encounter isn't mean to be balanced, but ouch, sounds like a swift kill there. Ouch.

 

I like the changes you recommend.

[Adran]

On a quick read of your changes aren't they counter productive?

One of the Down sides to such a quick kill is that you now have an expensive model that can't do very much else in the game.

 

I thought the idea was that models are supposed to "help" thier wrestler. And if you see something like Teddy then you can bet low, and get the VPs from "Reckoning".

 

I was thinking the indestructable Teddy was not an issue as you can tie him in combat, except you can't stop disengaging. So it could walk and interact with little issues. (although still can't interact if engaged, and it can't attack itself)

 

 

I've yet to play the scenario, but whilst it looks that that game was a bit of a wash out, a lot of that seems to be not realising the scoring set up, similar to picking Assasinate on Leveticus, and picking no Minions or Peons when Make them suffer is in the pool. Things that Ruin that game, but after it happens once, you know how they work and don't do it again.

[Sholto]

Since he is an experienced player, I doubt you will get him with that combo again. Any kind of Df Push trigger is going to ruin a Flurry, for example. I quite fancy Bishop in this matchup, as it is possible to have him on Df 8 and defensive stance before he even activates (with Arcanists), but as others have said, if you don't fancy the other fighter, bet low and run away.

[Math Mathonwy]

He really, really should've prevented against that first damage and also probably stoned for a +flip for the rest of Teddy's attacks since he had bet that much. Also, had Mancha Roja been able to take an action, it might've ended the other way around since Mancha is really rather killy. If not, then next turn's initiative would've likely meant a whole lot.

[Adran]

Just re-read the scenario, and you know Teddy is going to get between 3 and 6 attacks against Mancha on the first turn.

 

I'm not saying betting 3 is a bad idea, but you probably want Stilts on Mancha and Dirty Cheater as they are probably his only chance to survive 1 round (and you should know Dreamer has accomplice before you bet) against Teddy. Without those defenses, he should die if you lose initiative, and you should bet and play accordingly.

Going first probably cuts off 2 or 3 of teddies attacks if thats what you want, and may kill him, but its not that likely and as you saw, Teddy will heal at a huge rate if thats waht the Dreamer wants.

 

It looks like the player lost the game on their decision to bet 3 on the fight due to them not realisiing how killy Teddy really can be when he starts in Combat., 

Thats not an unbalance scenario. Thats Player error.

The same game but with a different Bet would still be well worth playing. It wasn't the loss of Mancha before having a turn, or even you gettign 4 VP, that cost him the game, it was the loss of 3 Vp that he couldn't earn that will put him on the back foot (I still don't think it was an auto loss for him at that point, but is certainly an uphill battle)

 

But as I say, thats all from reading the scenario and your report. Its entirely theory, I've not played it at all, so may well be completly wrong. But I am certainly up for playing it still.

[Kalkris]

Yeah, my whole idea after getting Mancha Roja was getting VP for Protect Territory and ALitS, and then playing keepaway to keep his (presumed lower) bet from giving him incentive to kill a nearby model of mine. Like I said, I would keep Dreamer near Teddy during ALitS work. I would consequently be both passively healing it and putting down markers of the Dreamer's own.

 

I found out later that my foe had taken Distract as his second scheme, which meant my keepaway would have been very helpful. I don't know how wise Distract is to take in a Reckoning game, especially if it is more pertinent to you than your opponent (I could have taken Distract with no problem, assuming everything was as it was for realsies).

 

I do suppose one can chalk this up to player error, but I still don't like the idea that the winning wrestler can't be attacked after the "match" ends. Granted, I never really got to see what would happen there, but I guess it wouldn't be good for my opponent.

 

~Lil Kalki

[Matney X]

I like the idea of not allowing buffs from outside the ring, and I also like the idea of allowing people to target the wrestlers after the bout is done (imagine an entire crew taking revenge on the wrestler who beat their fighter), and both seem logical and in the spirit of the Encounter.

It does seem like your friend didn't gauge his opponent well, though -- even before crews were hired, you knew what you were getting into, and he should have known Teddy (and quite a few other models who are significantly awesome at toe-to-toe combat) was in the hiring pool.  After that, you make bets based after the wrestlers are announced, right? -- Teddy is a beast, but so is Mancha.  Really, he was banking 3 VP on winning initiative, and forfeiting the game (even with all the Scheme VP still on the table) showed he had zero plan for losing initiative. (The same can be said for you -- you were banking on winning initiative, or at least Teddy surviving one round with Mancha.)  He should have absolutely spent a stone to reflip Initiative.

So, while the Encounter isn't really balanced, and it could be cleaned up to make it more balanced, it's ultimately your opponent's fault for being bad at weighing his odds.

Oh, did he remember to use Hard to Wound at all, or did he just suck up full damage?

[The Godlyness]

If he knew he wanted mancha and was going to hedge his bet on him I would ha e taken Trixxiebelle in a heart beat. Need to win that initiative she does that then mancha does what he wants. So player error is not the scenarios fault.

[Math Mathonwy]

Going first probably cuts off 2 or 3 of teddies attacks if thats what you want, and may kill him, but its not that likely

I'm not sure you understand how Mancha kills a Teddy. Teddy has Df3. Mancha has Ml6 or 7, hits with his first attack and stones and or cheats to give negative Df flips to Teddy. Then Mancha hits Teddy again, and makes him perform a Df duel TN12 with that negative flip of his. If he fails, he gets Paralyzed. If he succeeds, repeat, if he failed, you autokill him with your last attack. Sure, you need the suits, but can stone for them or, if you have even semi decent hand, that negative flip for Teddy makes it really trivial. If Mancha goes first, Teddy is dead or Paralyzed.

Now, against the Dreamer, paralyzing Teddy is useless, so he needs to die, but that really is pretty easy if you don't flip a Black Joker.

Or you can just go for multiple Crushing Strikes if you like, but that might be a bit more touch and go.

[Mister Tezla]

Yeah, I'll own up that I was the opponent on this one, and there was certaintly an amount of player error vs. not fully understanding the scenario ( we literaly were flipping through the envounters in his copy of Crossroads and said "yeah this one looks good, what do we do in it?") 

After Mancha went down ( which I will be honest, I hired more for the fact that it was a "wrestling match" and he's a wrestler and less for good model choice.) I was going to continue at first, and focus on the rest of the schemes with a Wong and Lightning Bug heavy crew, but after the demoralizing first turn VP accumulation, and talking theoretics with Kalkris, sort of talked myself out of it, and we called it there. I don't usualy call a game that quick cimply becaue it's going south for me ( in 1.5 I was known for plenty of games where I kept going despite only havign a Skeeter and Somer left agains a pretty full Seamus crew * Que Beny Hill music*)

I do want to try this scenario after I've familiarized myself with it and put more thought into the crew selection and the wrestler choice. 

The fact is, at a quick look over this scenario would seem to be a 1 on 1 grudge match in the center area, with the rest of the crew focusing else where. In fact, it is a scenario that can highly favor model combinations with high synergy and support, so less a 1 on 1 and more on strong multimodel combos with the wrestler as the point head.  So therewill be high advantages to support masters thatcan buff their wrestlers alot ( and masters with Obey getting in that extra hit is always nice). 

I wouldn't mind to se some of the changes that Kalkris suggested as well, but I am in no ways saying the scenario is broken. I'd need to look it over more and really give a try at it before I could make a sound judgement, and in our first game with it, I realy went in with more of a " Hey, this could be fun, and why not taking the Wrestling Gremlin for a Wrestling Match!?", which was my ultimate undoing. 

[Kalkris]

Yeah, I'll own up that I was the opponent on this one, and there was certaintly an amount of player error vs. not fully understanding the scenario ( we literaly were flipping through the envounters in his copy of Crossroads and said "yeah this one looks good, what do we do in it?") 

After Mancha went down ( which I will be honest, I hired more for the fact that it was a "wrestling match" and he's a wrestler and less for good model choice.) I was going to continue at first, and focus on the rest of the schemes with a Wong and Lightning Bug heavy crew, but after the demoralizing first turn VP accumulation, and talking theoretics with Kalkris, sort of talked myself out of it, and we called it there. I don't usualy call a game that quick cimply becaue it's going south for me ( in 1.5 I was known for plenty of games where I kept going despite only havign a Skeeter and Somer left agains a pretty full Seamus crew * Que Beny Hill music*)

I do want to try this scenario after I've familiarized myself with it and put more thought into the crew selection and the wrestler choice. 

The fact is, at a quick look over this scenario would seem to be a 1 on 1 grudge match in the center area, with the rest of the crew focusing else where. In fact, it is a scenario that can highly favor model combinations with high synergy and support, so less a 1 on 1 and more on strong multimodel combos with the wrestler as the point head.  So therewill be high advantages to support masters thatcan buff their wrestlers alot ( and masters with Obey getting in that extra hit is always nice). 

I wouldn't mind to se some of the changes that Kalkris suggested as well, but I am in no ways saying the scenario is broken. I'd need to look it over more and really give a try at it before I could make a sound judgement, and in our first game with it, I realy went in with more of a " Hey, this could be fun, and why not taking the Wrestling Gremlin for a Wrestling Match!?", which was my ultimate undoing. 

 

I concur with this. I'd love to have a rematch with you, friend. I think it was kind of unfortunate that the strat wasn't mutually grasped fully. I surmise that once we both have a decent feel for it, we could do that over.

 

Also, oddly enough, one cannot Obey a wrestler as Obey is an Attack Action. Empty Night, which is entirely bonkers, is a Tactical Action and thus can be used in this scenario to make that wrestler do evil, evil things. And furthermore, from the looks of reaction in this thread, Mancha Roja wasn't a terrible option for the scenario, either.

 

I look forward to playing against you soon. Finally, I believe, there is a digital copy of the Fight Night page from Crossroads that somebody (either Eric or Justin or whoever) posted on Twitter or Facebook or the like. Since that's open to the public, would anyone please be willing to link that, so that Mister Tezla can have access to it without the book itself in tow? Thank you!

 

~Lil Kalki

[Solicitor 6]

OK, so last night, I played Fight Night for the first time as my Ramos sponsored Howard Langston against Perdita's Peackeeper.  The Peacekeeper opened with Flurry and thanks to a series of incredible flips in its favor, sent Howard to the showers after two attacks in Round 1 before anyone else could get fancy.  The Peacekeeper's night wasn't over though.  While he could not directly attack any of my model's, he could chase after all of my arachnids that were trying to drop scheme markers for Breakthrough, cast his aura and wipe them out.   I was able to chip away at him some with Ramos using Magnetism or Controlled Detonation upon an arachnid within range. Unfortunately, I could not eliminate him before the end of the game to stop him from ruining my scheme (which was great work by my opponent).  Therefore, I don't think there is an issue with preventing the "fighter" from attacking or being attacked the remainder of the game. There are things they can do to still be a player in the game and opponents have means at their disposal to interact with the fighter without Attack Actions. 

[Kalkris]

OK, so last night, I played Fight Night for the first time as my Ramos sponsored Howard Langston against Perdita's Peackeeper.  The Peacekeeper opened with Flurry and thanks to a series of incredible flips in its favor, sent Howard to the showers after two attacks in Round 1 before anyone else could get fancy.  The Peacekeeper's night wasn't over though.  While he could not directly attack any of my model's, he could chase after all of my arachnids that were trying to drop scheme markers for Breakthrough, cast his aura and wipe them out.   I was able to chip away at him some with Ramos using Magnetism or Controlled Detonation upon an arachnid within range. Unfortunately, I could not eliminate him before the end of the game to stop him from ruining my scheme (which was great work by my opponent).  Therefore, I don't think there is an issue with preventing the "fighter" from attacking or being attacked the remainder of the game. There are things they can do to still be a player in the game and opponents have means at their disposal to interact with the fighter without Attack Actions. 

I mean, though, your experience seemed, after the fact, to be remarkably peacekeeper-death-centric, even though you couldn't kill it in the end.

 

Obviously, getting into engagement with the fighter isn't a bad move, especially if that model you choose is expendable enough. But that's easier for summoners (like Dreamer, Ramos, Som'er, most any Rezzer, and even the Guild if they bring along a Pathfinder for Traps) than a master like Lynch, Perdita, or, in the case of my own opponent Wong. I am glad that these scenarios aren't able to be randomized.

 

Do you think that Perdita could have handled Howard killing her Peacekeeper after the fact, as a hypothetical? My guess would be a fairly solid "no". I don't think that the argument is whether or not the scenario is balanced for some crews, it's whether or not it's balanced for *all* crews.

 

Besides, it would make the scenario a much more challenging (and maybe even more rewarding) one if all crews could do it around the same level, with only marginal differences in success level - from a thematic standpoint, as all factions are able to hire their heavy-hitters, whatever they are (totems, Vik of Blood, and LCB notwithstanding), out of theme. Thing is, this is a story-based scenario and people will probably want their thematic crew to run it, as opposed to taking mostly thematic stuff and then SUDDENLY A TEDDY OUT OF NOWHERE, if you'll pardon the caps. I mean, sure. Teddy is thematic with the likes of Dreamer, Pandora, and even Collodi or Zoraida if you want to stretch it a bit, but Lilith, Lucius, and Lynch do not seem to really bother with taking Teddies thematically (especially the latter two).

 

Sure, if you can justify it thematically, more power to you, but if you want to go thematic and you take something out of theme which is not justified JUST for the sake of winning Fight Night, I might cry. XD The spirit of the game in these cases is that these won't usually be used for major sanctioned tournament play, so why be anything more than casual and thematic about it? But again, some model like a Rogue Necromancy in a Kirai crew seems a bit... off, especially for Fight Night - Kirai would likely not rely on anything but herself or her own Spirits to win her battles for her.

 

Also, this is keeping the idea of the Guild Toolbox out of the equation as I know the faction is built to toolbox, mostly. But you can stick thematically to Guild on Fight Night if you can help it - it's probably going to be difficult unless you're Hoffman with his Peacekeeper, though, all things considered... I mean, I'd say that Horsemen and Effigies are valid and factionally-thematic if you really need that to win with.

 

I am sorry for ranting, but I do think that the spirit of your game was compromised and that isn't cool IMHO (Although if both of you had fun, that conversely IS cool and do that more!). In my own example, the game ended quickly even considering the thematics, and that is what I am arguing here - that a thematic crew should not have a distinct and blatant edge in a standalone against another. And I *won* my game.

 

Tl;dr: Thematic crews are excellent, but should be balanced in story scenarios because the scenarios' target audience, I believe, is thematic players primarily.

 

~Lil Kalki

[Parker Barrows]

I don't have Crossroads yet, but is there a reason Hungering Darkness or Nekima (or just a Mature Nephilim) can't be picked? I think there are many choices besides Teddy for those who do not have a strict in-theme choices for Neverborn.

 

I disagree with the idea that all scenarios must be balanced by crew Thematics. That would be incredibly difficult. Especially even in faction you have crews that play very different playstyles and strengths. Besides, with the exception of Outcasts, all factions have reason to work with other members of the faction. A Teddy might not be welcomed to the Honey Pot, but it doesn't mean that Lynch's Neverborn allies won't send him out there to help the Teddy out. I don't see it against the setting to use models besides a Master's standard thematic crew.

[Hateful Darkblack]

Seems like maybe the best thing you could do with Fight Night is take a really fast objective-runner as your Wrestler, take a model with Ill Omens (So, Trixiebelle or Doppelganger), and have your wrestler run away from the fight ASAP. Then just gather your AP objective-running with a really fast model that no one can target with attack actions.

Naturally, you'd need to bet zero. And have no dignity or sense of awesomeness.

[Rathnard]

I actually like the meta 

 

Seems like maybe the best thing you could do with Fight Night is take a really fast objective-runner as your Wrestler, take a model with Ill Omens (So, Trixiebelle or Doppelganger), and have your wrestler run away from the fight ASAP. Then just gather your AP objective-running with a really fast model that no one can target with attack actions.

Naturally, you'd need to bet zero. And have no dignity or sense of awesomeness.

 

This is one of the things I like about Fight Night. You could take your biggest beatstick and hope you smash your opponents model before they smash yours, but you could also go the other way, taking a quick model (Silurid?) to play keep-away or throwing in the cheapest model you can to ensure you have a SS advantage when it comes to killing the rest your opponent's crew.

[Math Mathonwy]

Playing the fight by running away sounds like a really horrid tactic.

Besides, it would make the scenario a much more challenging (and maybe even more rewarding) one if all crews could do it around the same level, with only marginal differences in success level - from a thematic standpoint, as all factions are able to hire their heavy-hitters, whatever they are (totems, Vik of Blood, and LCB notwithstanding), out of theme. Thing is, this is a story-based scenario and people will probably want their thematic crew to run it, as opposed to taking mostly thematic stuff and then SUDDENLY A TEDDY OUT OF NOWHERE, if you'll pardon the caps. I mean, sure. Teddy is thematic with the likes of Dreamer, Pandora, and even Collodi or Zoraida if you want to stretch it a bit, but Lilith, Lucius, and Lynch do not seem to really bother with taking Teddies thematically (especially the latter two).

Who should Lynch bring, in your opinion? Mr. Graves and Huggy would be horribly outmatched against most of the nastier stuff that others can bring.

[Solicitor 6]

Do you think that Perdita could have handled Howard killing her Peacekeeper after the fact, as a hypothetical? My guess would be a fairly solid "no". I don't think that the argument is whether or not the scenario is balanced for some crews, it's whether or not it's balanced for *all* crews.

 

I definetly think that Perdita could have handled having the Peacekeeper lose the fight.  The schemes for the game were Breakthrough, Make Them Suffer, Assassinate, Line in the Sand, and Cursed Object.  In addition to the Peacekeeper, the crew consisted of The Judge, Francisco, Enslaved Nephilim, and Witchling Stalker.  My opponent took Make Them Suffer and Assassinate.

 

With Ramos making new Arachnids every turn to try to run scheme markers for Breakthrough, I gave Perdita and company a steady stream of minions to pick off for Make Them Suffer points (a mistake on my part).  Joss and the Judge were tied up with each other from Rounds 2 through 4 throwing heymakers back and forth (and ended up being more of the fight in the game then the "main event").  The Nephilim was used to move Perdita and Francisco about so one could focus going after Ramos for Assassinate points and the other could have shot at Arachnids to cut off the scheme markers and keep racking up Make Them Suffer points.  The Stalker could have also been used for defending against Breakthrough running about picking off my scheme markers as the arachnids dropped them.  Therefore, without the Peackeeper, the Guild still had the ability to generate plenty of victory points by picking schemes that played to their strengths.  If Howard had won the fight, they may have still won, but it would have been likely a much closer game than the blowout they did score with the Peacekeeper winning the fight. 

 

Had Howard survived, he would have been less effective then the Peacekeeper was in helping out for the remainder of the game.  He could have helped in running the Breakthrough scheme markers, or worked as a shield for Ramos, staying between him and Perdita/Fransico and forcing them to burn APs having to move around him to get LOS on Ramos rather then just having the Nephilim move them around and allowing them to empty their guns into my master for Assassinate.  While effective, its not the same as the Peacekeeper tailing my Arachnids, setting himself between them and wiping out the scheme markers with his Tactical Action.

 

 

I actually like the meta 

 

 

This is one of the things I like about Fight Night. You could take your biggest beatstick and hope you smash your opponents model before they smash yours, but you could also go the other way, taking a quick model (Silurid?) to play keep-away or throwing in the cheapest model you can to ensure you have a SS advantage when it comes to killing the rest your opponent's crew.

 

Here's the ultimate dirty strategy I came up with for Fight Night the day after my first experience.  It is contingent winning Initiative for Round 1:

 

Bet 0 VPs for the fight.  Select a Coryphee as your "fighter."  For the first move, get your "fighter" Coryphee into base contact with your second Coryphee and perform Dance Together to summon the Coryphee Duet.

 

The "fighter" Coryphee is no longer in existence, so the opponent's "fighter" has no target and cannot possibly score any victory points.  At the same time, the Coryphee Duet is not restricted from attacking other models since it is not the "fighter" model.

 

Now that, is some straight-up Ric Flair heel work.   

[zFiend]

Oh that Coryphee trick is so filthy

[rythos42]

I see anyone selecting Coryphee as their wrestler, I'm betting 0VPs, making my Emberling the wrestler and now we're playing Reckoning. Which sucks, because Reckoning is annoying but Fight Night sounds awesome.

[Bengt]

The downloadable Fight Night has you lose if your wrestler is killed or sacrificed and Dance Together sacrifices the Coryphees. It says nothing about the other wrestler having to do the deed. So worst strategy evah!

 

Also, you select your wrestlers, place them, and bet before you see the opponents crew.

[Solicitor 6]

The downloadable Fight Night has you lose if your wrestler is killed or sacrificed and Dance Together sacrifices the Coryphees. It says nothing about the other wrestler having to do the deed. So worst strategy evah!

 

Sure, bring up that little detail to undermine a perfectly dasterdly plan.

[The Godlyness]

The downloadable Fight Night has you lose if your wrestler is killed or sacrificed and Dance Together sacrifices the Coryphees. It says nothing about the other wrestler having to do the deed. So worst strategy evah!

 

Also, you select your wrestlers, place them, and bet before you see the opponents crew.

Reading dance together it says the the Coryphee do not count as killed or sacrificed for encounter purposes. So it's works fine. Not in the spirt I think but nothing stopping it.

[rgarbonzo]

Back to the original topic I agree with Godlyness if Initiative was an issue Trixie will help with that. Also even if Mancha goes first often the best best is to whack a model to get it on  flip Df duels then Whack it with a Gremlins getting the trigger to Whack it With 2 Gremlins.