Errata 2022 - Outcast

[Azahul]

I don't disagree that I think she should gain something for losing the kidnap, though it isn't like she wouldn't still be very good at burying enemy models and controlling them until they're dead. I think I would like to see her gain a way to bounce to Echo markers herself? It would be thematic and make up for just how much less mobile she feels compared to her OG version.

[Zebo]

Well, she's worse at burying enemy models, can't summon and has lost her awesome mobility and double activation. The echo markers mechanics seems fun, but IMHO far from powerful, and her other action is like a pseudo-worse obey. 

 

So with her actions she can:

Walk

Attack with a mediocre attack (for a master) with a single un-suited trigger. 

Attack with a strange action that "pins" The targer to a certain point, and can heal it or damage ir to give it fast. 

Give a general or  action to other model. This can also unbury friendly models, but then they gain slow. 

 

Apart from this, she can take damage and remove conditions on enemies to force them to activate later. 

 

Sincerely, doesn't seem to me like a Master-caliber profile. 

[Azahul]

She does also give you two pass tokens, which isn't to be sneezed at. But yes, having a bit of her old mobility back would be nice.

[Zebo]

On the other hand, paying a tax of 7ss you can spend Tara's whole activation to bury one single enemy model almost anywhere in the table. That model doesn't suffer damage, but it's heavily vulnerable to Obliteration crew. 

 

Sincerely, that sounds like a strong Master's activation, but broken? Not so sure. 

[Azahul]

39 minutes ago, Zebo said:

On the other hand, paying a tax of 7ss you can spend Tara's whole activation to bury one single enemy model almost anywhere in the table. That model doesn't suffer damage, but it's heavily vulnerable to Obliteration crew. 

 

Sincerely, that sounds like a strong Master's activation, but broken? Not so sure. 

That option would still exist though if Rewind were nerfed so that, say, it buried and unburied rather than placed (meaning you couldn't kidnap their Master, since 33 unburies models in her Pine Box when she buries).

 

The issue of it being broken is almost beside the point because of how little recourse the opponent is given to respond. It's a true NPE, on a level that is probably past being acceptable. And if the only thing that changed was that you couldn't rewind, you could still do the trick, you would just have to evaluate what the opponent has available that could kill 33 to unbury their models. Being asked to play the game/be open to potential counterplay doesn't strike me as an unreasonable ask.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Azahul is now 3 wins in with original Tara (two of those games involved hiring two void wretches as well xD)

Though... All his opponents have been outcasts 🤣 But that also means only Azahul's Outcasts can beat these other Outcast players (they've won all their other games so far).

[Azahul]

13 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Azahul is now 3 wins in with original Tara (two of those games involved hiring two void wretches as well xD)

Though... All his opponents have been outcasts 🤣 But that also means only Azahul's Outcasts can beat these other Outcast players (they've won all their other games so far).

The game into Kharnage was into Ten Thunders. Only the two double Void Wretch games were into Outcasts.

 

But I am truly sorry for the damage I am doing to our faction's win rate. I swear it is self defence!

[SEV]

@Azahul: did you play the underpowered Anionus as well? 

You must  be the luckiest outcast player ever beating all those good players wit subpar models 😋

Seriously: please started a separate thread to document your NYR journey so far, your insight will be appreciated (my secret, secret plan is obviously to know more about your playstyle if I ever have to face you).

[Zebo]

6 hours ago, Azahul said:

But I am truly sorry for the damage I am doing to our faction's win rate. I swear it is self defence!

Since you're mostly beating Outcast, our winrate is not changing, don't worry. 

 

7 hours ago, Azahul said:

That option would still exist though if Rewind were nerfed so that, say, it buried and unburied rather than placed (meaning you couldn't kidnap their Master, since 33 unburies models in her Pine Box when she buries).

The problem I see is that, kidnapping is the ONLY strong thing Tara2 does. 

At this point, I would prefer the ban of 33 and a bit of improvement on Tara2. 

[Jordon]

While I don't disagree with the potential NPE of the Tara/33 kidnap. It doesn't sit right with me to nerf a model before it's even been released. Might be good to allow time to see whether something is actually a problem or if it's just paper theory.

Again, I'm definitely on the side of saying its NPE. However I think it might need some time on the board before going about what exactly that change should look like.

Explorers got the same luxury despite people screaming about nexus. The game needs some time to settle with the new stuff before we start changing the new stuff.

However this is all coming from a non-competitive gamer

[Azahul]

4 hours ago, SEV said:

@Azahul: did you play the underpowered Anionus as well? 

You must  be the luckiest outcast player ever beating all those good players wit subpar models 😋

Seriously: please started a separate thread to document your NYR journey so far, your insight will be appreciated (my secret, secret plan is obviously to know more about your playstyle if I ever have to face you).

Oh I crutch hard on Aionus. It's a miracle I ever win anything with my reliance on him and Void Wretches.

I'll throw together a thread on the subject at some point.

3 hours ago, Zebo said:

Since you're mostly beating Outcast, our winrate is not changing, don't worry. 

 

The problem I see is that, kidnapping is the ONLY strong thing Tara2 does. 

At this point, I would prefer the ban of 33 and a bit of improvement on Tara2. 

We were undefeated as a faction in round one. Then they started pairing us against one another. If they hadn't done that we might still be 100%!

 

If you're going to change Tara2 anyway, change her to remove the kidnap and give her something else to compensate. Changing one model just seems simpler than changing two.

 

1 hour ago, Jordon said:

While I don't disagree with the potential NPE of the Tara/33 kidnap. It doesn't sit right with me to nerf a model before it's even been released. Might be good to allow time to see whether something is actually a problem or if it's just paper theory.

Again, I'm definitely on the side of saying its NPE. However I think it might need some time on the board before going about what exactly that change should look like.

Explorers got the same luxury despite people screaming about nexus. The game needs some time to settle with the new stuff before we start changing the new stuff.

However this is all coming from a non-competitive gamer

I don't actually expect Tara2 to cop nerfs for exactly the reasons you list. I wouldn't expect Titles to be touched until the next cycle.

[Maniacal_cackle]

11 minutes ago, Azahul said:

I don't actually expect Tara2 to cop nerfs for exactly the reasons you list. I wouldn't expect Titles to be touched until the next cycle.

This seems likely, but also it's going to be miserable if titles exist in this form until April 2023 xD

[TeddyBear]

On 1/30/2022 at 11:46 AM, Maniacal_cackle said:

🤣 Azahul is abslutely smashing the Malifaux World Series using Tara. 8 diff in two rounds against two championship players xD

I think Tara needs a nerf!

by chance these games were recorded? I would be curious to see them

[Maniacal_cackle]

@Azahuldid you record any? Or can you start recording them (and then promptly get stomped? xD)

[Azahul]

I think Andorman recorded the round three game?

[KID55]

I think for Tara2 there's should be some possibility to unbury model. For example WP vs. WP duel at the start of kidnapped model's activation. And if buried model fail, Tara can spend her resources to skip activation.

[Zebo]

So Drachen, Barbaros and Winged Plague buffed. What are your thoughts? 

 

Mi first reaction was: Why Barbaros? He wasn't exactly bad. Then why any change in Desperate Mercenaries or upgrades? 

 

I really like new Drachen role, key to remove markers. 

 

Also like new Winged Plague, and their new improved mobility. 

[Alerteddonkey42]

13 minutes ago, Zebo said:

So Drachen, Barbaros and Winged Plague buffed. What are your thoughts? 

 

Mi first reaction was: Why Barbaros? He wasn't exactly bad. Then why any change in Desperate Mercenaries or upgrades? 

 

I really like new Drachen role, key to remove markers. 

 

Also like new Winged Plague, and their new improved mobility. 

I have similar thoughts. Not sure what drove them to choose what they did.

Barbaros does more now which is nice and the additional keyword is some fun foreshadowing, but he didn't really need changes.

I like the Drachen trooper change to give Outcasts another option for removing markers. 

I still don't like winged plague. I think they'll see a bit more play for a time just to try them out and then people will stop taking them again. Their problem is that they are either 4ss just to maybe get out some blight (which is an expensive price to pay to just throw them away) or they are mediocre schemers. The best cheap schemers can often move twice (or once then a movement based bonus) and then place a marker or interact (or they jump across the board and interact like crooligans which are also 4 ss). They still die to a stiff breeze.  

[Thatguy]

I'm hoping the Barbaros is a sign we'll get Lilith back. The changes seen like an upgrade. Maybe they have something to do with the mechanics for Returned. 

Trooper seems like a great upgrade. Removes markers and does condition removal means it's going to be a top pick against a lot of crews. 

[Morgan Vening]

1 hour ago, Alerteddonkey42 said:

Barbaros does more now which is nice and the additional keyword is some fun foreshadowing, but he didn't really need changes.

I think it's as much if they're going to add the Keyword anyway (necessitating a new card), why not tinker with problem aspects.

Also, I've got a feeling that Broodfighter might be a sampling of whatever the Returned Keyword does. The way it's written makes it look like Sandeep's Mantra or Jedza's Chronicle, in a more limited format (the others are Auras and can affect multiple models a turn, this gives the acting model something it can pass on, on it's own activation).

Also, who doesn't love Bring It and Caught In The Ring as a combo for use against support models. Honestly, if I wasn't happy with my current Barbaros miniature, I'd be all over making him Scorpion from Mortal Combat.

[RisingPhoenix]

What a weird choice of models and buffs.  I'm not sure how I feel about it. 

Drachen Trooper - Gaining some move was so good here, and costing 7 is HUGE.  The best part is it's marker removal that doesn't rely on Mad Dog.  So no more bringing Mad Dog in a Von Schill crew because oh gee, he's the only marker removal in the faction.  Now we can melt Ice Pillars and blow up Pylons with style.  It's kind of hilarious they can still gain burning of all conditions, but ah well.  This now has a far better and clearer use case.

Winged Plague - I'm not sure this fixed anything, but at least it moves faster than a Drachen Trooper!  Seriously, if this is the only fix I see this model being taken twice as often as it is now.

Barbaros - Okay, so Lilith is coming back (see RETURNED).  Broodfighter is strictly better than Regen 1, I guess, but in a marginal way.  Biggest use seems to be to give itself a 2" boost turn 1 (and that's actually fairly solid).   Caught in the Ring is a bit more flexible than Challenge, I suppose.  Df 6/Wp 5 is better than the reverse for a tanking model, but wow this change is a big fat nothingburger.  I'm pretty sure this is just to bring the design in line with the Lilith Crew.

Mood: Whelmed.

[Azahul]

Hm. Winged Plague changes probably aren't enough for me to put them on the table. They really needed at least one defensive rule.

 

Barbaros change seems like a slight improvement. I already liked Barbaros and used him in some builds. This is fine.

 

Drachen Trooper changes are good.

 

Not as many changes as I was hoping for, and still no reason to pay stones for Outcast upgrades, but I don't disagree with the changes that were made. Whelmed isn't a bad way of summing it up.

[RisingPhoenix]

In reflection I'm actually quite happy about Barbaros because it's exactly the sort of minor buff I think more slightly underpowered models should receive.  Barbaros was slightly below the curve. This change:

• Gives him 2" more movement on turn 1
• Gives him a 7.1% less chance of being hit by a stat 6 melee attack (or of forcing another model to cheat first)
• Gives him an ability to really lock a model in melee with him that is NOT dependent on him going early in activation order. 

That brings him pretty on curve for a 9 stone model - Built in suit to conditionally get 3 attacks, 2/4/5 daamge track, Black blood for more damage, can stone critical strikes, df 6, armor +1, 9 wounds.

[admiralvorkraft]

Hamelin is a big winner with the faq/errata. Winged Plagues should now be able to function in their intended role, Hamelin2 can obey his models more freely, and Barbaros is now even better in the keyword he's most useful in.

[admiralvorkraft]

I tried Hamelin last night into Ivan2 and boy do the new Winged Plagues function as intended. I still wish they had Fly With Me but I didn't regret bringing three.