Neverborn Building on a Budget

[Khyodee]

Hey folks, I could use some help on my Building on a Budget series of videos for S&S. The idea is to follow these guidelines:

1) Make a competitive list with some flexibility if possible

2) Limit the initial purchases to 2-3 boxes (less is better)

3) Focus on Keyword models followed by good Versatiles
4) Generally avoid non-faction models (except those in master box) and taxed models
 

The color coding is

-Green are first purchases (required or highly recommended)

-Yellow are second tier purchases to really tune your list

-Orange are third tier purchases that will improve your lists flexibility

-Red are optional purchases if you want them (the rest of the keyword and versatile models)









 

[Corwin]

To restate my comment from guild I would definitely add Familiar Faces to the first buy on Lucius. In NB I almost always run two changelings with AP. 

[Alcathous]

Fae: Emissary should be green and Killjoy should be orange. Emissary should be in your main list over KJ. KJ is much more situational, harder to use, and would need to be flexed out sooner. Hooded rider and rougaru should be yellow. Serena should go down to orange.

Savage: Crew looks good for the cost, but Cyclops are pretty much mandatory. I'd leave your core the same (it's good for learning) but move Cyclops to green. Lyssa should be yellow; no one should be buying changelings before Lyssa. The Howling should get on the list, either red/orange.

Nightmare/Woe: Carver should be orange at least. Opportunist (Focus) is definitely tech worth having in rotation.

 

[Vaylos]

1 hour ago, Alcathous said:

Fae: Emissary should be green and Killjoy should be orange. Emissary should be in your main list over KJ. KJ is much more situational, harder to use, and would need to be flexed out sooner. Hooded rider and rougaru should be yellow. Serena should go down to orange.

Savage: Crew looks good for the cost, but Cyclops are pretty much mandatory. I'd leave your core the same (it's good for learning) but move Cyclops to green. Lyssa should be yellow; no one should be buying changelings before Lyssa. The Howling should get on the list, either red/orange.

Nightmare/Woe: Carver should be orange at least. Opportunist (Focus) is definitely tech worth having in rotation.

 

I am on the same boat with Cyclops being the box to buy before Geryon. I find myself consistently reaching for the Cyclops before the Geryon in every list I build.

 

If I had to choose the order to buy Savage in it would be as follows:

 

Euripides Core (Green)

Cyclops (Green)

Insomnia Box - Serena (Yellow)

Damned (Yellow)

Geryon (Yellow)

Hooded Rider (Red)

Lyssa (Red)

Crossroad 7 - Wrath (Red)

The Howling (Red)

Half Bloods (Red)

Mysterious Fate (Purple?)

Hinamatsu (Purple?)

Puppet Show (Purple?)

 

Purple to me is that I don't really see the need to bring models from those boxes.

[Alcathous]

22 minutes ago, Vaylos said:

Mysterious Fate (Purple?)

You should try Emissary with Euripides sometime. It's spicy.

[SEV]

I agree with Alcathous for Fae and for Carver (especially in woe).

In Fae the Howling should be in orange. 

In nightmare you really need the 3 minions boxes so they should all be green. 

In Swampfiend, I don't see neither Hinamatsu or the Rider as mandatory (they are fine versatile, so orange)... But the Bolor box and probably the Silurid box can be green. I hired the Emissary way more often than Hina or Rider. I would put him in yellow. Vasilia worth it mostly if you go for BBS as well, if you don't WW is definitely better (Ilin the spirit of you budget list, I think they can all be red, since you also need the Stitch box with them). Spawnmother and Gator are also useful hire in some context,I think they can be move to Orange as well.

I understand why you put Teddy in green for Woe since he's a natural hire with Kade... But most of the time this is not the best way to invest 17ss... The Rider and Hinamatsu will make the cut way more ofter. than Carver (usually better than Teddy). I think all those options have their merit (so all yellow for me). Lyssa should be orange (they can be useful as a cheap scheme runner). Serena, Wrath and The Emissary are also all valid options and can be orange as well. 

[Maniacal_cackle]

With dreamers nerf, you can't just run minions anymore. So with him I think it is best be realistic - all the minion boxes plus the spiders plus a beater need to be green IMO. I personally rate Teddy, but many others don't xD

He is at least a 5 box master to play at minimum IMO.

[Maniacal_cackle]

For Marcus, I'm told Bandersnatch and Adze are what really make him shine in Neverborn, so would probably put those as the 3rd and 4th option?

For Nekima, I almost feel like Terror Tots should be green with how brutal they are when Kharnage uses them. He is the best Nekima player I know of and he uses them to great effect. That said, maybe since they're just an incidental summon it is fine to keep them at orange, as I suppose people probably don't HAVE to have them? @Kharnage could give a more informed opinion.

[extremor]

For Lucius Mattheson - imho:

1-2 changelings are essential 

versatiles that are commonly used in my „competitive lists“ are:

angel eyes, rider, Hinamatsu, vasilisa & wicked dolls to summon stiched and mature nephilim. 
 

therefor I would make familiar faces green and halfblood, rider, Hinamatsu yellow. Puppet show only goes with stiched IMO. 
 

[Khyodee]

23 hours ago, Alcathous said:

Fae: Emissary should be green and Killjoy should be orange. Emissary should be in your main list over KJ. KJ is much more situational, harder to use, and would need to be flexed out sooner. Hooded rider and rougaru should be yellow. Serena should go down to orange.

Moving Emissary, Killjoy, and Hooded seems fine. I'm not a big fan of rougaru and think Serena is a better fit.
 

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Savage: Crew looks good for the cost, but Cyclops are pretty much mandatory. I'd leave your core the same (it's good for learning) but move Cyclops to green. Lyssa should be yellow; no one should be buying changelings before Lyssa. The Howling should get on the list, either red/orange.

Top of yellow for budget reasons I think are fine for Cyclops, which are you first secondary purchase. The Lyssa being yellow seems a stretch to me. As for The Howling, I just have to disagree on them as Bultungin are crap really and I would sooner go out of keyword for something in that roll (or heck pay the tax on the Insidious Madness).
 

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Nightmare/Woe: Carver should be orange at least. Opportunist (Focus) is definitely tech worth having in rotation.

Sure

[Cats Laughing]

IMHO, if you keep Killjoy as Green (I understand for budget purposes, but agree with others on the Emissary), then I would consider moving Puppet Show or orange. If you drop Killjoy out of green I'd still consider moving that box higher up in the Red section for Fae.

Wicked dolls are one of the better models to hold Killjoy's upgrade.  Cheap so you aren't wasting a lot of stones bringing him back.  Small and stealth to keep them alive. Fast (decent speed, bonus push, and a on your heels trigger on their ranged ability) to get Killjoy back into action quickly.  Ranged Adversary (your choice on keyword) is nice to set up Killjoy and your other models too.

[Khyodee]

20 hours ago, SEV said:

I agree with Alcathous for Fae and for Carver (especially in woe).

In Fae the Howling should be in orange. 

Orange seem fines for Howling.

20 hours ago, SEV said:

In nightmare you really need the 3 minions boxes so they should all be green. 

Pre-nerf I would be more inclined to agree and as heavy as I run on Stitched with dreamer, I think yellow is fine for it to keep things on a budget at green.

 

20 hours ago, SEV said:

In Swampfiend, I don't see neither Hinamatsu or the Rider as mandatory (they are fine versatile, so orange)... But the Bolor box and probably the Silurid box can be green. I hired the Emissary way more often than Hina or Rider. I would put him in yellow. Vasilia worth it mostly if you go for BBS as well, if you don't WW is definitely better (Ilin the spirit of you budget list, I think they can all be red, since you also need the Stitch box with them). Spawnmother and Gator are also useful hire in some context,I think they can be move to Orange as well.

The Bokor and Silirids are solidly yellow since they are out of faction models that can't be used in other NB crews, while Hina and Hooded can fit into anything. Zoraida imo is one of the worst masters for following my guidelines as she tends to favor out of faction models, taxed models, and awkward purchases (like buying Zipp box for a single model).
 

20 hours ago, SEV said:

I understand why you put Teddy in green for Woe since he's a natural hire with Kade... But most of the time this is not the best way to invest 17ss... The Rider and Hinamatsu will make the cut way more ofter. than Carver (usually better than Teddy). I think all those options have their merit (so all yellow for me). Lyssa should be orange (they can be useful as a cheap scheme runner). Serena, Wrath and The Emissary are also all valid options and can be orange as well. 

Moving Hooded green and Teddy as bottom or orange makes sense (it was my original thought that someone argued against). Moving Lyssa and Serena up is fine.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Well, for Dreamer you've currently got 53 stones of models, and probably want to hold back at least 17-24 stones of that for summons, and even that is a big compromise.

If the idea is to be remotely competitive, I think the current state is fairly misleading. 2 boxes is not enough.

I also notice Titania only has 39 stones.

It seems strange that if you buy all the green stuff you don't end up with a playable crew.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Another issue is that not every crew can be made playable with 2 boxes.

Id take Molly to a tournament with two boxes and do fine, but many masters that is not the case.

[Khyodee]

On 5/15/2021 at 3:04 PM, Maniacal_cackle said:

Well, for Dreamer you've currently got 53 stones of models, and probably want to hold back at least 17-24 stones of that for summons, and even that is a big compromise.

Dreamer can do a lot more then just dump cards into summoning every round (especially with nerfs to it) and you still have 15ss of Alps that are going to likely die shortly after being summoned because your putting them into your opponents beaters more often the not.

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If the idea is to be remotely competitive, I think the current state is fairly misleading. 2 boxes is not enough.

I think your on a different page here. Competitive here isn't building a list to win a 50 man event, its aim is at a new player going to his local meta 8 man event, probably with a wide range of skill. People aiming to win a larger event will buy what they need and don't need my advice on what to buy....they probably own the faction anyways.

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I also notice Titania only has 39 stones.

Plus upgrades and stones. Sure you have no flexibility other then upgrades, but it works and yes its a playable crew.

 

 

[Roadhouse]

2e Z box has Silurids instead of Waldgeists
2e Dreamer has Alps+ all the 3e contents.

Pretty sure both are still findable and Z Silurids are loads better than Waldgeists. Though if you were to suggest a 2 crew path Titania Box+New Z box+ Emissary Box is pretty golden, though after that they diverge heavily, wanting $50 purchases that are keyword locked.

Oddly the easiest keyword to build out is the summoner. 2e box+Serena Madness Box+Teddy. This is all the summonable models and gives you a very solid list on the table

[Khyodee]

8 hours ago, Roadhouse said:

2e Z box has Silurids instead of Waldgeists
2e Dreamer has Alps+ all the 3e contents.

Pretty sure both are still findable and Z Silurids are loads better than Waldgeists. Though if you were to suggest a 2 crew path Titania Box+New Z box+ Emissary Box is pretty golden, though after that they diverge heavily, wanting $50 purchases that are keyword locked.

Oddly the easiest keyword to build out is the summoner. 2e box+Serena Madness Box+Teddy. This is all the summonable models and gives you a very solid list on the table

I agree if you have access to the M2E boxes, the lists change a lot. That said, I'm future proofing and don't want to make recommendations on old boxes when 3 years from now you can't find those boxes anywhere.

[Roadhouse]

3 years from now there will titles for all the masters, probably a ton of new models and changes to existing models. The lists would need to be updated anyway

[Adran]

46 minutes ago, Roadhouse said:

3 years from now there will titles for all the masters, probably a ton of new models and changes to existing models. The lists would need to be updated anyway

Its likely that this would still be at least a viable start. Barring major errata, a list that is playable at the moment is likely to still be playable in 3 years time. There may well be better things for the list by then, but that doesn't mean this list wouldn't be helpful. 

[Thatguy]

On 5/14/2021 at 2:30 PM, SEV said:

 

In Swampfiend, I don't see neither Hinamatsu or the Rider as mandatory (they are fine versatile, so orange)... But the Bolor box and probably the Silurid box can be green

I thought much the same.

 

On 5/15/2021 at 11:13 AM, Khyodee said:

The Bokor and Silirids are solidly yellow since they are out of faction models that can't be used in other NB crews, while Hina and Hooded can fit into anything. Zoraida imo is one of the worst masters for following my guidelines as she tends to favor out of faction models, taxed models, and awkward purchases

I guess it depends on if you prioritize faction over keyword.