What Would You Errata? (in Guild)

[Dark Reaper]

Seeing as most other factions have a thread like this, I figured we needed one as well? What do you think needs to change?

 

What needs a nerf?

The Pale Rider is way above the curve, changing his damage to ignoring armour and incorporeal instead of irreducible would be a start (so you could still use soulstones), maybe something as drastic as just making it straight dmg might even be the solution. Right now he just does so much with his free action.

I am not sure he needs a nerf, but the Guild Steward seems to make it into most of my lists.

 

What needs a buff?

The Frontier Keyword would like a few buffs here and there. Especially the Frontiersmen, as they just seem to lack a role at all. Austringers also strike me as way too expensive at 7SS.

Orderlies could really do with a melee range that isn't 0", just so that they could be a decent alternative as a scheme runner, or something to use for hold up their forces

Dashel could probably do with a little buff. His summoning is very convoluted right now, and very difficult to get off compared to other summoners.

Family as a keyword is a little behind the curve, I find. Their models die to a stiff breeze and they can't really go wide as they are so dependant on staying at mid-range and within each others' auras.

I think Quellers could get a little buff as well. They just seem to do nothing way too often.

 

I should probably add that this is just from off my head, and I have probably missed a lot in both categories. 

[Legislat]

I agree with the most points. 

Pale rider can probably be fine with the uncheatable damage. Though i think it will be not enought.

Orderlies are useless as they are right now.

Nurse HB can probably do with a buff to melee range also. I never take her as is.

Family still needs a lot of thought. They dont work.

[Angelshard]

I agree that the irreducible damage on pale needs to be toned down. 

The steward, I think, is well balanced. He makes it into a lot of lists. But that is more due to their weaknesses than because he's too good. 

My bids for buffs would be:

Pistolero de latigo. Biting insult is a leftover from when they needed pass tokens. I'd remove it and give them a support ability instead. I'd like guild sergeants a new horizon, as that could give them an interesting role. 

Enslaved nephilim should gain an ability that would let family treat it as an enemy for the purpose of bravado. 

Brutal effigy and emissary should change the aura from after activation to after action. 

 

[Gnomezilla]

Yes, please revert the aura of vengeance! I’m sorry I overused it in beta, ok?! I’ve learned to counter-hire more often, they don’t make every Guild list now.

[Qracy]

Melee Attack for Field Reporters, e.g. Frantic Flailing 

 

MV 5 for Sonnia

build-in Tome for Interrogate on Investigators

DF 6 for Samael Hopkins

WP 6 for Jury

Into the Cage same effect as pine Box (distracted +1)

 

 

 

[eddy]

I play mostly Hofman, Lucius, Sonia and Dashel so i will write about them

I am pretty much happy for hoffman as he is. He only need some reason to play him in guild instead arcanists.

No prissoners heal 2 granade mv13

Rider ignores armor instead irreducible

Steward is not in bad place but why the hell tanuki is better?

+1 for 

56 minutes ago, Qracy said:

Into the Cage same effect as pine Box (distracted +1)

Sonia tottaly disapointed with her. df5 or buid in tome for def. Move 5. MELE 6!

Some survival tech for her crew as their themetic skills are pretty crappy compared to other keywords

Dispatcher build in mask for trigger

Rifleman give him back his SH6

Shouting orders should not require discard. Or ability on Taggard, dashel or dispatcher "when friendly guardsmen model in 6 discards card as cost of action or ability it may drew card" It would work great with patrols take hit and solve this crew card draw problem

With Lucius i wish his Issue command has beter triggers Like in m2e and cut chengelling cancer obey loops, its super boring unfunny to play with and against. Make chengellings works like arc nodes for his skills or something instead

 

[oistene]

No Prisoner needs a lift - it doesn't do anything useful. I have never seen anyone take it. 

Completely agree with above notes on Orderly and Heartsbane.

Enslaved Nephilim might be the worst totem in the game (see the discussion where several people would rather want a pass token and a card from heroic gamble). Instead of a Obey that is way too hard to cast, it should have abilities that synergise with the rest of the keyword. Like triggering A Por El regardless of cost, triggering Grit on others. Spotter (or better yet, a "reversed" spotter where it can let other models benefit from auras regardless of range).

Nino seems slightly overcosted - but not a full stone, so a little boost might be nice. +1 def or move?

Frank never seems to deliver the punch that henchmen of a similar cost in other factions have.

Pistoleros are a never take. They need to be able to actually do something useful. 

As several people mentioned, Into the Cage on Brutal Emissary should have an extra effect (or at least a built in trigger) to make it useful.

I'd love it if Sonnia got Def 5. I'd also love a tome on her Def.

Thalarian Queller could also need a lift. At this moment, I do not feel that he can do anything other models cannot do better. Being able to Counterspell at a greater distance springs to mind. A melee attack would be good. I didn't start the fire not reducing burning would be great.

Samael seems lacking and overcosted, similar models in other factions do way more (i.e. Rusty Alice). 

Risk of Reason on Judge seems harsh now. Either let them keep the tomes or reduce the damage.

I never played Dashel but that his summoning is nothing compared to other summoners is clear to me.

Frontiermen are a never take to me.

Austringers seem overcosted.

And yeah - Pale Rider might be powerful right now, but if he gets a significant nerf, Guild is left with more or less nothing. To me, he feels like a crutch model, not something overpowered.

It feels as if we are really lacking in clever tricks, ways to remove downsides, and movement capabilities compared to others, and this shows in tournament stats. If Guild is to be able to compete, they need a lift.

[Mxbedlam]

37 minutes ago, eddy said:

 

Dispatcher build in mask for trigger

Rifleman give him back his SH6

Shouting orders should not require discard. Or ability on Taggard, dashel or dispatcher "when friendly guardsmen model in 6 discards card as cost of action or ability it may drew card" It would work great with patrols take hit and solve this crew card draw problem

 

 

Agree with some of this here. I would also ask that Drop It be Baked into Queeg and Dash's gun. Though I don't think the rifleman needs a 6 on his attack. WIth Pursue its often there anyway and most snipers are 5 or 6. But Dispatch definitely needs the change. 

I like the idea of another model doing the draw when discards, but that feels an awful lot like what Sandeep does already, plus that would make the Guild Patrol's Take the Hit maybe too good.  

Another thought is to change Call In Reinforcements to say Target a Scheme Marker. IF the target of this Action is an enemy scheme marker add a Ram to the Flip. It still requires resources, at least 2 actions to make it happen, but its much less restrictive than how it is currently worded. 

[4thstringer]

I wouldn't nerf a thing unless guild has actually started winning things.  

I would bring lj down a point.

Id put some card draw onto the neph.

I would up the tn on innocent bystander to 14.

I'd get rid of the increased tn on friendly scheme markers on Daschel.

I'd get rid of mindless on the dogs, or make them immune to slow.

Id give the queller a close up attack.

I'd rework nurse hb and the orderlies to make them useful. 

 

[Gnomezilla]

My fellow Guildies...we are being reasonable again. Being reasonable is what got us into this mess in the first place!

[4thstringer]

12 minutes ago, Gnomezilla said:

My fellow Guildies...we are being reasonable again. Being reasonable is what got us into this mess in the first place!

You are right-

I would up the minimum damage on all the guild masters by 1.

I would give investigator's a three inch reach.

I would give the pale rider armor.

[Amateur Contender]

15 minutes ago, Gnomezilla said:

My fellow Guildies...we are being reasonable again. Being reasonable is what got us into this mess in the first place!

If Ten Thunders can have their Samurai WITH Trained Ninja I want Guild Hounds running around with Atomic Bombs strapped to them. We are the Guild! We have the resources!

[Amateur Contender]

If I recall, wasn't there a heated debate during open beta about Lady J needing either a 7 to her attack or Onslaught? "She's too powerful with both, she only needs one" kind of deal? And now we're stuck with a 6 to hit AND the Jim Belushi of tiggered attacks, "Quick Reflexes".

[4thstringer]

I've got it: give Fermented river style as an upgrade we can purchase for our masters.

 

[Mortarion]

The Thallarian Queller is really high on my list of what needs fixing. Currently it does not add anything to the crew. It's just an overcosted Sanctioned spellcaster. It is one of the few models that I would never consider taking.

And I honestly think that the Austringer is fine at 7 stones. But I might be biased, because last time I killed one the board was suddenly filled with three trained raptors which not only killed my model who had killed the Austringer, but also removed my Corpse markers for Dig their graves... 

[eddy]

Thats true we did too good job during beta and now we are too balanced

[4thstringer]

You know what bothers me?  Why didn't they tell us 40-50% terrain when we were beta testing?  Noone I know playtested on that much terrain.

[Starrius]

4 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

You know what bothers me?  Why didn't they tell us 40-50% terrain when we were beta testing?  Noone I know playtested on that much terrain.

Out of the 40-50% how much of that are you using as cover compared to other traits?

[Kharnage]

27 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

I've got it: give Fermented river style as an upgrade we can purchase for our masters.

 

Replace No Prisoners with "You're the Reason I Drink", abilities include Drunken Kung Fu, Perverse Metabolism, and as a Minion only Ability, Foul Mouthed Motivation. It's the most balanced thing I can think of. 

[Gnomezilla]

37 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

You are right-

I would up the minimum damage on all the guild masters by 1.

I would give investigator's a three inch reach.

I would give the pale rider armor.

Crit strike for every master!

”But I don’t even have a melee attack—“

“I had provided minimum three damage in melee since edition one point five, actually—“

“I have crit strike, give me the RAM already—“ (actually Lady J might have a point there)

[Gnomezilla]

1 minute ago, Kharnage said:

Replace No Prisoners with "You're the Reason I Drink", abilities include Drunken Kung Fu, Perverse Metabolism, and as a Minion only Ability, Foul Mouthed Motivation. It's the most balanced thing I can think of. 

Still not letting go of that butterfly jump, eh?

[Gnomezilla]

12 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

You know what bothers me?  Why didn't they tell us 40-50% terrain when we were beta testing?  Noone I know playtested on that much terrain.

Our closed beta tables were rather crowded, I’d say 40%—but concealment worked differently then, so. Not to mention many games were against nephilim, which minimized the impact.

Honestly I think they still want 1/3 table coverage but are trying to phrase the rules so even the many folks who round down their terrain will get there. Which reminds me, I still have some spider-trees to work on...

[4thstringer]

12 minutes ago, Kharnage said:

Replace No Prisoners with "You're the Reason I Drink", abilities include Drunken Kung Fu, Perverse Metabolism, and as a Minion only Ability, Foul Mouthed Motivation. It's the most balanced thing I can think of. 

It started as a joke, but the more I think about it the more I feel like it would be ok.  LJ and perdita would get less out of it than Shen, since they have built in plus to damage that they would have to work to avoid.  (Sonnia otoh...)

[4thstringer]

18 minutes ago, Starrius said:

Out of the 40-50% how much of that are you using as cover compared to other traits?

Almost everything that is blocking is also providing cover.  It is honestly not the cover, it is the difference it trying to get around the table that is the hardest part with a more crowded table in my experience.  Almost no leap, incorp or flying is really hurting us.

[KingJocko]

Definitely agree that Asylum has some problems. I've tried to make them work, but outside of Grimwell they seem to be consistently under performing. Luckily Electroshock Machine and Necrotic Injection are unique attacks for Heartsbane and the Orderlies so an increased range wouldn't mess with other models. However even with that change I still don't think they'd be in a good spot because the Orderlies role is lacking definition and Heartsbane doesn't have a standout feature as an Enforcer.

Having Constriction, H2W, and Restraints makes the Orderlies look like low cost tar pits, but they're arguably better suited as scheme runners thanks to there Mv6 and H2W. Their low damage track and average attack stat means they'll likely never get a kill to take advantage of Research Specimens and only Constriction threatens to keep enemies in place. To reinforce their role I'd replace Research Specimen with Regeneration+1 and give them the Mask on Necrotic Injection so that their durability is increased and they're purpose prioritizes locking down enemies while enabling others to take advantage of it. I wouldn't mind even seeing their damage track lowered a little to make these changes more palatable since as Versatile models they're job should be to bring utility to a crew and not just be generic filler. There's a reason we see the Steward frequently hired despite lacking conventional damage.

I would argue Enforcers are the worst station in the game. They don't get the full advantages from upgrades or benefit from stacking abilities like Minions and they don't get the extra actions or Soulstone access of Masters and Henchmen. To that end I frequently argued during beta that Enforcers should get something unique to make them pop and Heartsbane is close, but lacking a little something. Straitjacket is a good disabling threat, but the "Target must be engaged with a friendly model" clause means you have to stick someone's neck out first before crippling the thing you want to Stagger/Slow which reels it back a bit. Changing the resist on Straitjacket to Mv instead of Wp would give it a repeat advantage as giving Staggered the first time would make a second use even more likely to hit, threatening your opponent with more discarding. That alone wouldn't be enough since cost 7 for a good discard action would still be lacking so following that up by giving Electroshock Machine either a stat 7, a built in Crow, or possibly both would push her into a solid independent model that gets better with combined with the other members of the Asylum crew.