Jack Daw in M3e

[PraetorDragoon]

With Jack Daw being a full-fledged resser now, I am going to play him more in M3e. Now, have there been any intersting/clever tricks or strategies with the Tormented crew? Any particular things to watch out for?

And any tricks to utilize Crooked Men for? (I like those guys)

[dannydb]

there is a lot of discard and execute in tormented. bring a couple of guilty to drain hands and then jack and montresser can go to town

 

also its all upgrades, not just the ones Jack hands out

[stonecrowe]

Not sure about Crooked Men, but as mentioned above, I have heard that the forced discard into spamming execute triggers plan is doing quite well. You want to bring at least 2 Guilty and Montressor to the table and about 8 soulstones in your cache (to be used to generate the execute triggers) then start sniping off key members of the opponent's crew whilst your hanged do.... hanged things. 

 

EDIT: Also, Grave Spirit's Touch on Jack is very necessary. 

[PraetorDragoon]

42 minutes ago, stonecrowe said:

Not sure about Crooked Men, but as mentioned above, I have heard that the forced discard into spamming execute triggers plan is doing quite well. You want to bring at least 2 Guilty and Montressor to the table and about 8 soulstones in your cache (to be used to generate the execute triggers) then start sniping off key members of the opponent's crew whilst your hanged do.... hanged things. 

 

EDIT: Also, Grave Spirit's Touch on Jack is very necessary. 

Regeneration does seem like a big boon to Jack.

[TeddyBear]

I don't like much crooked man, you can consider jaakuna.

Jack is a real monster in this edition, if you position Jack well you do not need that upgrade on him, better on guiltys imo.. so, a part ligeia you can have an entire terrifying crew. 

[Morgan Vening]

46 minutes ago, TeddyBear said:

Jack is a real monster in this edition, if you position Jack well you do not need that upgrade on him, better on guiltys imo.. so, a part ligeia you can have an entire terrifying crew. 

I dunno if it's been discussed, but is adding Manos to a Jack Daw crew funny as hell?

Short of an opponent adding Demise killers, I think giving Jackie Regen+2 and Eternal if Manos dies (and offing him yourself if Jackie is looking tired), is hilarious.

I mean, you could get Chiaki to Split the Soul, but then you're spending 32SS to start (You need to have Yan Lo as Leader), and Jackie really wants his Tormented to get it all moving.

[PraetorDragoon]

1 hour ago, TeddyBear said:

I don't like much crooked man, you can consider jaakuna.

Jack is a real monster in this edition, if you position Jack well you do not need that upgrade on him, better on guiltys imo.. so, a part ligeia you can have an entire terrifying crew. 

What do you not like of the Crooked?

[TeddyBear]

23 minutes ago, PraetorDragoon said:

What do you not like of the Crooked?

I'm not saying that they are terrible; aesthetically i like them very much. The only thing: i think they are situational for deal some specifical masters.. for example those who put a lot of terrain markers in game, or vs master like wong that takes advantage via blasts ( very dangerous for jack) i also really like their ranged attack. I tested them only once, they seemed fragile compared to other choices for the crew.  I must admit however, that i dind't try them with GST upgrade...

@Morgan Vening i never thought about this combination, it seems really really funny!  you give us a really nice idea! I will definitely test it!

[dannydb]

The only sad thing about putting GST on Jack is you then can't have 2 hanged with it

 

I also like him with wisper 

[4thstringer]

I think Third Floor Wars just put out an episode about him.  Probably has some good info.

[Deathinabox]

Fun little thing you can do. Take Archie (The great scheme runner this crew needs) then have Jack how him turn 1 to attach the upgrade. Archie becomes tormented and can be moved about by Jack and what not, but he had numb skull so he can't gain the staggered

Edit: Jack can no longer do this

Edited June 28, 2019 by Deathinabox
Correction

[Saduhem]

I've played Jack Daw ad nauseam in the Beta. I'v been ungodly busy lately but I'll post a write up on tips and tricks with him as soon as I can. In retrospect, I should have saved those massive posts before the forums closed :}

[Michael Curran]

Sharp learning curve, but great rewards once proficient 

[Maniacal_cackle]

If one wanted to pick up a basic Jack Daw (Resser) crew, what would be a good route to go?

Would crew box + Hanged + Jaakuna Ubume be enough to play the keyword? If relevant, I already have Molly/Forgotten mostly filled out. Reckoning is my weakest strategy, followed by turf war.

[Saduhem]

18 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

If one wanted to pick up a basic Jack Daw (Resser) crew, what would be a good route to go?

Would crew box + Hanged + Jaakuna Ubume be enough to play the keyword? If relevant, I already have Molly/Forgotten mostly filled out. Reckoning is my weakest strategy, followed by turf war.

That would definitely get you started. You'll be hiring pretty much everything in his crew box every game (maybe not three guilty! One or two max). I find myself taking a hanged (occasionally 2) most games too.
I'd try to squeeze in a crooked man though, then a Dead Outlaw as your next one. Jaakuna is amazing and she's going to be worth the purchase, but I'd put Crooked Man + Dead Outlaw as slightly more vital.

Drowned are not absolutely essential, but they do combo well with Jaakuna and are a bit tougher to kill. Similarly, a crooked man will make Jaakuna's aura give auto-staggered.

Daw can be amazing in Reckoning! McMourning/Reva arguably have a bit of an edge there perhaps, but Tormented have loads of neat tricks.

[PraetorDragoon]

On 7/9/2019 at 6:52 AM, Saduhem said:

That would definitely get you started. You'll be hiring pretty much everything in his crew box every game (maybe not three guilty! One or two max). I find myself taking a hanged (occasionally 2) most games too.
I'd try to squeeze in a crooked man though, then a Dead Outlaw as your next one. Jaakuna is amazing and she's going to be worth the purchase, but I'd put Crooked Man + Dead Outlaw as slightly more vital.

Drowned are not absolutely essential, but they do combo well with Jaakuna and are a bit tougher to kill. Similarly, a crooked man will make Jaakuna's aura give auto-staggered.

Daw can be amazing in Reckoning! McMourning/Reva arguably have a bit of an edge there perhaps, but Tormented have loads of neat tricks.

What would you say is amazing about Drowned?

Any out of keyword or versatile models you would pick?

[Saduhem]

10 hours ago, PraetorDragoon said:

What would you say is amazing about Drowned?

Any out of keyword or versatile models you would pick?

Drowned I usually only take if Jaakuna's in the mix. Strictly speaking, they're better with Kirai because their Mv4 becomes a non-factor when they can be summoned forward, and they come with their baked in.

The reason I like them with Jaakuna is the fact that a 1 of is always useful for the free undertow with no downsides to Jaakuna. Just use projectile vomit on her and pull in everyone within 3 of her, which would be an auto-staggered if in LoS of a Crooked Man. But you also see the pattern here, lots of moving parts and a hefty SS investment.

Without the Crooked Men, they're still good at keeping Jaakuna alive, as serene countenance is bypassed by focused, but serene countenance + distracted is a whole different story.

They can also generate blasts off the Guilty, but keep in mind that you need a moderate and you're fighting against hard to wound.

You also have to balance your hiring between slow models that need support to move, and models that support it all. That's why I consider a Dead Outlaw before I consider a drowned, as the former one is granting movement, while the latter needs it. Jack is amazing at shuffling his own people around, but he can't do it across many models. 

If you know you're going to get rushed hard, drowned are the better investment over crooked men. They cost less, have Vengeance, and can be frustrating to deal with due to combat finesse (a role they better serve in Urami).

If you bring ways of handing out focused (Blasphemous Ritual), they're much better as they're more likely to get blasts.

As for out of keyword models:

Both Daw and the Hanged really, really need heals. Models like the carrion effigy and Gravediggers can save Jack a card for each point they heal, and their presence on the board alone is a huge deterrent as damage inflicted to Jack or the Hanged seems like a bad investment. The gravediggers also bring a whole lot of focus between the free corpse+blasphemous ritual and their preparations trigger. They're also decent scheme runners and can grant you Dig Their Graves.

The restless spirit can give shielded +1 to Jaakuna or Ligeia so Jack can charge turn 1 instead of walking. On a , that's a free push for a tormented model turn 1. He's also bringing you a corpse for Blasphemous Ritual. Then, till the end of the game, he's dropping 1 corpse marker and 1 scheme marker every turn for Dig Their Graves.

Mortimer and Sloth can speed up your crew a lot but I end up regretting picking them because they're just as slow as the rest of the crew but they don't benefit from the Tormented movement tricks. They just end up using their actions to move the other models forward in the first turn, and stay behind for most of the game. You're already saturated with Mv4 models, be careful about hiring more. 


If you're thinking about Outcasts, the effigy brings heals but, most importantly, the Hodgepodge Emissary grants you a TON of movement, especially when paired with the Dead Outlaws and the scheme marker drops. All his trinkets are great for Tormented, and he brings healing to the table too. 
The Midnight Stalker can technically be obeyed by Montresor if you position him right so that he is out of LoS from Jack. With proper placement, he can benefit from the crew's shenanigans and start turn 1 on the opponent's side of the table, getting Fast for it.  

I'm sure I'm forgetting something... that's all I got from the top of my head :}

[Maniacal_cackle]

Would tossing Archie and 0-2 crooligans into a list with Jack Daw help with the mobility issue?

I already have Forgotten as my first crew, so if the answer is yet, I'd be ready to play Daw with just his crew box potentially? Or would I have to get at least hanged on top of that?

[stonecrowe]

Archie and Crooligans are very discard heavy and Jack relies on having cards in hand to discard to his undying ability. I don't think you can expect to run them AND have Jack not be shot off the table. 

The jack box and a pair of hanged make for a great start with this crew, but I don't think you can plug the gap with Forgotten I'm afraid. 

[PraetorDragoon]

Would any of the Transmortis crew be useful for Jack Daw? Undergraduates can move models, and Students of Sinew have Command Corpse.

[Pergli]

7 hours ago, PraetorDragoon said:

Would any of the Transmortis crew be useful for Jack Daw? Undergraduates can move models, and Students of Sinew have Command Corpse.

Maybe but with daw, i would stay as in keyword as you can. Tormented drawing cards is essential to keeping daw alive. If anyone, I would probably go with Anna. She has some decent card draw so you can pitch to keep him alive or hopefully draw cards you need for his triggers.

[Saduhem]

4 hours ago, Pergli said:

Maybe but with daw, i would stay as in keyword as you can.

This really is important. Whatever model you bring has to:

• Reliably give out staggered
• Capitalize on staggered (Additional effects vs staggered, target Mv)
• Bring something exceptional to the table to justify the lack of the above 2 (Card Draw/Healing)

[Sarrion]

How does Lady Ligeia's Take It All trigger work, it says the target must discard one of its upgrades or else take a 2/3/4 damage track and gained injured +2, is that for the off chance there's a model with an upgrade?  i thought it would have synergy with the curses but this would only enable people to remove them.

I was also reading about Guilty getting to Terrifying (12) with the GST upgrade, but i don't understand how that would happen? I also assume they don't come back with their upgrades?

thanks!

[Saduhem]

5 minutes ago, Sarrion said:

How does Lady Ligeia's Take It All trigger work, it says the target must discard one of its upgrades or else take a 2/3/4 damage track and gained injured +2, is that for the off chance there's a model with an upgrade?  i thought it would have synergy with the curses but this would only enable people to remove them.

I was also reading about Guilty getting to Terrifying (12) with the GST upgrade, but i don't understand how that would happen? I also assume they don't come back with their upgrades?

thanks!

The only use I can see for Ligeia's trigger, outside of the rare chance she's going to maul something with an important upgrade on it, is to attack your own guilty after you've used Horrifying whispers on it to take the upgrade off.

Not too in love with Ligeia, but her aura can be great in this crew. That's really all she's for (and charging her with Daw to get a push on a crow).


The Guilty don't have terrifying so, you're right, they don't get to terrifying 12. I guess one could argue that withing Jack Daw's Disturbing Whispers aura they could be considered Terrifying 12 in a way, maybe that's what they meant? I don't recall if Guilty had terrifying at one point during Beta.

 

[bigbopper]

I would like to add Daw to my resser collection, however I'm worried that he may be a NPE for my opponents. Are my concerns founded or he isn't as bad as he looks?