Mr. Moustache aka Hulk Hogan aka Von Schill / M3E

[Jafar]

Von Schill was my first master, I love his look and theme but in M2E he was quite boring to play (compared to other masters).
Based on beta files, I think I might give him a chance. But I see thay now he can take 3 x Freikorps minions (scout, man, drache etc.)

Has anyone played him in beta, what standard list looks like? Should I get extra freikorps models? Maybe WYRD showed new sculpt for this crew? I don't see any preview on "upcoming" page.
Thank you in advance for help.

 

[katadder]

I tend to use the specialist minions - scout, engineer, librarian. After thay I add in Lazarus, hannah and arik 

[Jesy Blue]

In 2nd I didn't play with his theme, just him (and sometimes the strongarm suit/arik), with a whole other crew.

I'm having an equally hard time using his keyword in 3ed, but then adding him to the Infamous crew has been out-freaking-standing!

Next time I'm trying a Freikorps sniper crew (3 scouts and Hans), I'll see what that gives.

[Erorior]

11 hours ago, katadder said:

I tend to use the specialist minions - scout, engineer, librarian. After thay I add in Lazarus, hannah and arik 

Same here. The crew has armor, shielded and healing which makes them really hard to shift whilst Hannah and Arik can pack quite a punch with focus+rocket boots. 

 

 

9 hours ago, Jesy Blue said:

 

I'm having an equally hard time using his keyword in 3ed, but then adding him to the Infamous crew has been out-freaking-standing!

 

I've tried him with Zipp as well, and must agree that it's quite amusing. 

[Jafar]

Do you played with keyword scheme runner or used Stalker? I want to grab general idea about this crew. Also thanks for all help.

[Zebo]

I've played a lot with Freikorps in the Beta, and while still annoyed by the nerf on VS's rifle weak damage (don't understand why they simply increased his range by giving him a rifle when in the pictures looks like he's wearing a shotgun), they are a fun crew to play.

They lack any unifying ability, but the nerf to only attach upgrades to minions or Freikorps fixed the "Von Schill is better as an ally master than as a leader" Problem, although I don't like him not attaching upgrades to any model he hires on his crew.

Von Schill can do a lot pushing, protecting and upgrading his troops, but you no longer can trust him in causing damage when needed. 

Trappers are now good scheme runners in some schemes, if used correctly, and Freikorpsmann with rocket boots turns quite awesome scheme runners (add Assault Shield for survivability and Rocket Launcher for fun). 

Arik Schoettmer (new Strongarm) feels too good for his cost, what makes Lazarus in comparison lackluster, since he is really hard to really compensate for his cost and is really easy to neutralize. 

In resume, Freikorps keep being relatively tough and killy, and keeps being a lot card hungry with lots of discarding taxes and almost none card drawing source. But they are A LOT funnier to play and have improved greatly in scheme running. 

[Jesy Blue]

3 hours ago, Zebo said:

Arik Schoettmer (new Strongarm) feels too good for his cost, what makes Lazarus in comparison lackluster, since he is really hard to really compensate for his cost and is really easy to neutralize.

Seriously... I love the big metal lug, but he just can't compete with the sheer versatility of Arik; shooting, melee, mobility, resilience, Soul Stone usage, can get Soldier For Hire.... it's the best 9 points you'll spend in keyword.

[Ming]

1 hour ago, Jesy Blue said:

Seriously... I love the big metal lug, but he just can't compete with the sheer versatility of Arik; shooting, melee, mobility, resilience, Soul Stone usage, can get Soldier For Hire.... it's the best 9 points you'll spend in keyword.

Arik's is 10 Cost. You can take both Arik and Lazarus anyway.

[Jesy Blue]

3 hours ago, Jesy Blue said:

.... it's the best 10 points you'll spend in keyword.

Yeah, 10 points... that's what I said <looks around nervously>.

You can take both, but I honestly am finding it hard to find a place for Lazarus.  His Move is so low it's almost a detriment.

[katadder]

15 minutes ago, Jesy Blue said:

Yeah, 10 points... that's what I said <looks around nervously>.

You can take both, but I honestly am finding it hard to find a place for Lazarus.  His Move is so low it's almost a detriment.

Not when you give him rocket boots. Surprises people. Either do it with trigger for von schill to let him leap straight away it use the trunk to give them so you can free them up for the beaters

[Zebo]

The saddest part about M3E is Von Schill not being more Hulk Hogan, since he cannot beat hard anymore not even get mad and break his shirt

[psychogeek]

I am very interested in playing the crew now. I never played the before but I love (at least on paper) how they look like an organized military group. 

[CapnBloodbeard]

I think Schill really came good after Book 5, when he could single handedly throw models around the table and beat the absolute snot out of them.  

Until then, he never really seemed to quite have a place.  

These days under M3e, I actually feel like the synergy with his crew may be more important and I think he may be a more subtle master - and I think there's a lot of denying the opponent going on.  Can still throw models around, but I don't feel like he wants to being in the middle of the enemy like he used to be.  I sort of think he might want to hold his Freikorps bubble and charge in to a problematic enemy model to throw them away so his crew can shoot at them.  

Lazarus, I'm not liking so far.  I've only played one game, but shockwave was meh.  Laz has gone from a big terrifying monster, to somebody who can kind of maybe cut you a little bit at a time if your flipping is bad.  

I think Schill and his crew are a lot more nuanced these days with all the equipment handouts.  

As for the Scout.....with only 14" range he's now a very different model.  No longer can you just plant him anywhere knowing he can hit almost the entire table - he actually needs to be somewhere the enemy can get him.  

 

I think with the engineer, the crew can become very hard to remove.  

And given that non-scout models also have 14", or 12" on their guns.....I'm actually not really seeing the point of snipers in this edition.  

[Jesy Blue]

4 hours ago, CapnBloodbeard said:

As for the Scout.....with only 14" range he's now a very different model.  No longer can you just plant him anywhere knowing he can hit almost the entire table - he actually needs to be somewhere the enemy can get him.

Katanaka Snipers got the focus 24" shot and Freikorps cannot compete with them now.

[CapnBloodbeard]

Yeah, even Hans is only 14".  Last time I played my sniper, he literally did nothing for half the game, couldn't even shoot.  I seriously question whether he's worth taking now.  

Also, can't handle Schill not ripping off his shirt.  It was just one of the greatest abilities in the game - the idea that in ripping off his shirt Hulk Hogan style, his sheer machismo not only heals him but makes his enemies too terrified to move.  

Oh well!

 

[Jesy Blue]

Hans at least has the 24" focused shot like Katanaka Snipers do, but by with that range alone he's just makes himself a target

[Zebo]

Well, Scouts have been nerfed, since there's anything that they can do that couldn't do the old Trappers, and they have lost their threat area and part of their damage output, so they must be used more as scheme runners than before.

The only problem with this is that, while they can be placed just where they need to be, they use to be isolated from the rest of the crew, and can be hard to keep them alive until help arrives. 

Being honest, all the old snipers from M2E have been nerfed, since the new Sniper ability no more gives to damage. 

 

Agree with Von Schill no more wanting to be on the middle of the fight. He in fact has the same damage output than a Freikorpsmann or a Scout. He now wants to be on the back of the crew and avoid combat. 

 

The problem with Lazarus is that, with the good set up, the old rapid fire meant that your opponent could see its hand severely drained. That drove to some testers ranting about Laz OPness. You only needed Lazarus to start his activation in range of 3 enemy models, what means a bunch of actions of other models pushing and placing him, while your opponent keeps his crew close to ease your objective. You also need that your opponent avoids to engage Lazarus. 

[Barmution]

3 hours ago, Zebo said:

The problem with Lazarus is that, with the good set up, the old rapid fire meant that your opponent could see its hand severely drained. That drove to some testers ranting about Laz OPness. You only needed Lazarus to start his activation in range of 3 enemy models, what means a bunch of actions of other models pushing and placing him, while your opponent keeps his crew close to ease your objective. You also need that your opponent avoids to engage Lazarus. 

Between the built in push from vS' upgrade action, the I've Got Your Back action of either vS or on the Assault Shield Upgrade and the Leap from the Rocket Boots I'm pretty sure that keeping Laz based is close to impossible for your opponent. His ability to assimilate any non-master construct's attack also makes it a pretty dangerous proposition given that you've probably got either Arik or Hannah on the table and if you've brought Talos your opponent might be facing up to 3 Into the Furnace attacks at stat 6 vs wp.

Definitely not saying Laz is anything close to OP but I find him less situational than some people have stated on this forum.

[Mousaka]

Still trying to understand how Vs does his upgrade action, can he choose any (outcast) upgrade available to his crew and put it on them for free (even if the upgrade costs say 2)?

So if Lazarus is nearby and has no upgrade attached, then Vs can give him rocket boots (assuming less than 2 copies are already used by the crew)?

Or is there something else needed?

[Jafar]

I am slowly creating my first lists and general tactics. Few tricks I saw, not tested but worth mentioning:

- Add regen trinket to Von Schill, he will get 2hp each turn

- Steam Trunk + Midnight Stalker / Block LoS to Von Schill and give some upgrade, to MS

 

[Davos]

On 7/10/2019 at 8:11 AM, Mousaka said:

Still trying to understand how Vs does his upgrade action, can he choose any (outcast) upgrade available to his crew and put it on them for free (even if the upgrade costs say 2)?

So if Lazarus is nearby and has no upgrade attached, then Vs can give him rocket boots (assuming less than 2 copies are already used by the crew)?

Or is there something else needed?

Vs has a specific set of Upgrades - Called Equipment - that he (or Steam Trunk) can attach using their actions.  The Generic Outcast Upgrades (Servent of Dark Powers, Wanted Criminal, and Solider for Hire) are only hireable during crew building

[Adran]

On ‎7‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 2:11 PM, Mousaka said:

Still trying to understand how Vs does his upgrade action, can he choose any (outcast) upgrade available to his crew and put it on them for free (even if the upgrade costs say 2)?

So if Lazarus is nearby and has no upgrade attached, then Vs can give him rocket boots (assuming less than 2 copies are already used by the crew)?

Or is there something else needed?

Von schill can give out upgrades with the type- Equipment. Yes he can give Lazarus rocket boots, but he can do that even if Lazarus has an upgrade (The limit of 1 upgrade is only at hiring, but you are still limited to 2 rocket boots in the crew, and a model can't have more than 1 of the same named upgrade).

It doesn't cost soulstone to do it. Vonschill just needs to succeed on his load up action (or the steam trunk succeed on its rummage through the trunk action) and they get a piece of equipment.

 

 

[Jafar]

Had game with VS:
- without ignoring armour/shielded or very good dmg track it's difficult to kill even simple minion from this keyword in one activation. After hits, I can easily heal and DF / WP stats are nice.

- Rocket Boots, pushes from Librarian and teleport from VS are VERY important. Without it, whole crew is quite slow

- This may change, but right now I don't know what to do with VS when I have all upgrades on models, his attacks are not so great as expected, but combo with Pull trigger on ML is great

- card hungry, I will say it again CARD hungry. VS wants cards with specific suits but not high ones, other models want to discard cards and you want stuff to cheat if needed

- it's easy to generate a lot of Shockwaves, can be deadly for some crews / scenarios

What do you think? Did you have similar ideas?

 

[Trample]

1 hour ago, Jafar said:

- This may change, but right now I don't know what to do with VS when I have all upgrades on models, his attacks are not so great as expected, but combo with Pull trigger on ML is great
 

 

This is kind of his issue now. Outside of load up there isn't a great deal he does well. In 2e he was a pretty fair combatant, but that didn't really carry over. The melee attack has some nice triggers but I think a ram should have been built in here. The Rifle has nice range but after they took away the min 3 damage it is pretty underwhelming. A single trigger and not much else. He doesn't have much after the upgrades. He's fast and can get out of engagements so I guess scheme runner hunting? 

[Trample]

I just looked at him for a bit. He's pretty comperable to Dashel in guild in a lot of ways. I really like the bonus action Dashel has (Foul Mouthed Motivation) that supports his crew. Von Schill does have I've Got Your Back, but it's a bit more situational. He maybe just needs to have a lot of stones to get his mask trigger. It's too bad he doesn't have Siphon Power like Hannah!