4thstringer Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 One of the most interesting things that happened when they nerfed Papa box that I didn't expect is I stopped seeing death Marshalls used by anyone. Is anyone putting them on the board? I thought they might have play with Nellie but I never tried it. Similarly, I thought the dmr, jury, sword fighter would have brought them back, but I'm not seeing it happen. So, are they just too fragile and are the def, Ml, ca, sh 5 stats everywhere too weak? Did they just get replaced? Am I just wrong? How are you using them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufess Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 I was running the marshal with Lucius, right after I start playing, to answer opponent's flanker and arch threat. However the more games I played, the less I would like to fit them into my list. I think, as you have mentioned, fragileness is their main weakness. HtW is not able to do much for their Df5 and Wd6. I cannot recall how many time they were shot off from the table before able to reach any valuable target. So if I would take the marshal for the pine-box to temporarily remove enemy model from table, why not have the reporter instead. The slows and pushes can keep enemy beat-stick away from you for a turn. Or the monster hunter could be remove the threat temporarily. The only utilities the marshal can bring which unique from other models are, as far as I can think of, pine-box express and providing extra wounds by burying friendly models when they are in danger. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizuriel Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 So DM I figure have a couple of problems 1) They are slow 2) They are kind of fragile. Personally I find if you want to use DM offensively you require at least 2 and probably a DMR. That is a pretty big chunk of points. Now this is also a small squad your opponent kind of has to deal with or risk losing out. I tend to use them more as a flanking force Generally I like bring DM's with both Lady Justice and Lucius. Lucius can get extra activations out of them letting them quickly move up the board and potentially getting in and out after stealing an enemy model. I've had games where I've had Lucius command presence a DM to box an enemy model then issue a command for the DM to take a 3" push and walk away from the enemy crew. Now the problem I find using them with Lucius is usually the enemy will focus pretty early on the DM and just obliterate them since Lucius really needs his minions to be scary. Using them with Lady J I find a lot of the time my opponents don't deal with them as they focus more on the Lady J and Fransico distraction coming up the middle of the table and I've had them sneak into the enemy crew and box something. Problem is then they tend to try and slowly get back and hope no one notices them. My record with 2 DM and Lady J ashwood box was having 28pts of my opponents crew in boxes 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortarion Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 I still run Death marshals in some matches and think that they are OK. But I mostly play casual matches and mostly take them in a thematic marshal crew. And sometimes with Lucius. There are some situations where I think they are really effective, but as you said, they are very fragile. But being able to remove (almost) any model in the game in a single action is something few other models can do. In certain schemes they can really mess with the opponent's plans. Transporting other fragile models can sometimes make them a bit more durable. I've had matches where my opponent really hesitated to kill an activated death marshal because of the unactivated Executioner inside the box. And in the rare situation when they can box an enemy model while a friendly is in the box it can lead to huge swings as they loose a model and you gain one. But it doesn't happen often. In a more competative environment they propably won't be worth it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 How are they slow? They have walk 5, that’s the most common movement stat in the game. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted February 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 Here are some ideas I have had with them to take advantage of their abilities 1. Use them to transport a banged up Santiago into position to get shooty. 2. Box a trap, which in addition to giving the emissary a fun ability would let you charge in, try to box someone, and whether you hit or not drop a trap into their midsts. 3. Box papa loco, and use dachell to give the DM reactivate. Run into the midst of the opposing crew (mentally this is against someone like nico who tends to bunch up). at the end of the turn, DM is sacrificed, papa pops out in the middle of their crew. Noone enjoys his exploding in their midsts. I'm not sure any of those are really going to improve things that much, but I figure it is worth a try. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 Number 3! Still sucks to have that happen at turns end since you won't get to Papa them to bits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 With an extra woun they might make my lists. As it stands they are good for demos because they are among the best models in the plastic line for luring people in and showcase a few interesting mechanics that set the game apart. Not sure when I last even considered one for an actual game. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted February 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 I'm wondering if models like the Monster hunter could give them some cover so to speak. the DM tends to get targeted because opponents know it is fragile and can box a beater, but the more scary opponents you face the more you might ignore the DM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, 4thstringer said: I'm wondering if models like the Monster hunter could give them some cover so to speak. the DM tends to get targeted because opponents know it is fragile and can box a beater, but the more scary opponents you face the more you might ignore the DM. McCabe gives out disguised, reactivate and nimble if you really really want to get in posiion to fail your lousy ca 5 attacks. Use Francisco to boost defenses and make the duel to escape pretty bad for most opponents. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubledragon Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 I would run DM's if they had either one more wound, higher ml stat or put out more damage. When I compare a DM to the guild minions that came out in the latest book, there's just no comparison. I think where DM's went wrong was in the design process. They were given an ability that is potentially very good in pinebox, but they balanced it out by making them lackluster everywhere else (including the ca5 for pinebox). And unfortunately, in play the lackluster part out weighs the potentially good part. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thstringer Posted February 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 hour ago, doubledragon said: I would run DM's if they had either one more wound, higher ml stat or put out more damage. When I compare a DM to the guild minions that came out in the latest book, there's just no comparison. I think where DM's went wrong was in the design process. They were given an ability that is potentially very good in pinebox, but they balanced it out by making them lackluster everywhere else (including the ca5 for pinebox). And unfortunately, in play the lackluster part out weighs the potentially good part. They were pretty good in wave 1-2. There was a lot less min damage 3 out there at that point. Now, non min damage three attacks are really less used. The problem is that they really don't compete compared for waves 4-5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchrisobrien Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 Not only are the queller, monster hunter, and investigator all 7 wounds, they bring new things ( bypassing damage reduction, crazy damage, and scheme/card manipulation) that the Guild were lacking before. They just suffer from being a wave 1 model. Armor +1 or an extra wound would be enough to see them have play (or some kind of discount if you take a recruiter). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raimu Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 Run sometimes one with Tara for double beast bomb. Does one friendly bury and after that just does scheme running, ocassionally burying some low Wp model. But in guild there are more intersting options now for the price. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antipodean Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 Don't use them anymore, for reasons mostly stated above. Too fragile for enemy bury work - prefer the recruiter and the ashwood coffin. Too much of a generalist for other tasks that cheaper/tougher minions can accomplish. Which is a shame as the models and fluff are awesome... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomezilla Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 The last time I got work out of a death marshal was using a doppelgänger to copy its attack in a sturdier shell. The Wk6 To saunter out of the way faster didn’t hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonCheadle Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 They might need the Low River Treatment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, DonCheadle said: They might need the Low River Treatment. Guild guard treatment would be nice. That might be the same, don't keep track of TT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikodemus Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 20 minutes ago, DonCheadle said: They might need the Low River Treatment. This game doesn't need more fix upgrades. (LRM thing is an upgrade that lets friendly LRM's in an aura do a healing/scheming action). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 20 minutes ago, Nikodemus said: This game doesn't need more fix upgrades. (LRM thing is an upgrade that lets friendly LRM's in an aura do a healing/scheming action). Personally I would prefer a "fix upgrade" than an errata. For me it is neater, and I need to put less effort into keeping my stuff up to date. Some of the fix upgrades look like they were designed at the time of the models, even though they weren't. And there are some of the "original" upgrades that might look like Fix upgrades but aren't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubledragon Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 7 hours ago, DonCheadle said: They might need the Low River Treatment. Totally agree with this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antipodean Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 Personally I really like the fix upgrades. Having great fun with the executioner now he is ready to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 2 hours ago, Antipodean said: Personally I really like the fix upgrades. Having great fun with the executioner now he is ready to work. Imagine for a second that he got that upgrade printed on his card so you could also take debt to the guild or lead lined coat with it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raimu Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 11 hours ago, Ludvig said: Imagine for a second that he got that upgrade printed on his card so you could also take debt to the guild or lead lined coat with it. I find the ideal to be fix upgrades with notation "do not count towards upgrade limit". That way I would always have errata near the card, not in head, and in the same time it wouldn't cripple the model ocupying that precious upgrade slot. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludvig Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 @Raimu I'm blanking on which fix upgrades were released that don't count towards the limit. Most are locked into a single faction as well even though the model can often be dual faction which is sad. So with my current options I prefer to print the errata card. Are the fix upgrades even on the errata page for printing? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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