If you were to make the errata...

[Kirby]

8 hours ago, Chris Rivers said:

Strum only works on puppets and not just minion puppets.

Oh, duh, you're right.  I was thinking My Will.  

[Xekros]

It's funny, I thought of making this same thread myself, but this works just as well. Without further ado, my thoughts:

Change Legalese so that Purposeful Misinterpretation prevents the enemy from scoring with scheme markers within  4, instead of converting them to your own at the end of game. Perhaps a bit too powerful, but  4 does mean that Lucius has to be on the front lines himself, where he doesn't really want to be.

Secret Assets' Hidden Sniper is justifiably costly, but it's incredibly rare to get the  trigger (I don't think I've actually managed it yet), so perhaps add that onto the Sh? Might make it too powerful at that point, though, due to the cost reduction of Devil's Deal, though that can only give the action 1 suit.

Allow Zoraida to summon the voodoo doll as a (1) action, once per activation. Whether that comes in the form of simply making it a (1) action and disallowing the Will-O-Wisps from taking it, or adding a bit to the end that says Zoraida herself can take it as a (1) would have to be tested.

Related, to an extent, is that Alpha from Marcus needs to not be able to target Masters/Leaders (not sure which it is), and/or allow Obey (at least Zoraida's) to target Leaders as well. Personally, I find it very odd that the weaver of Fate cannot target masters, but some guy in the woods can take an entire activation for them because some bird scratched at their eyes and they're a bit angry now.

Challenge of Winter on The Claw needs to be buffed somehow, either by building in the trigger (whether that's adding a crow, or simply putting the trigger text within the ability), or removing the ability to discard to prevent the condition. Other ideas welcome as well.

Sorrows' Life Leech could do with healing them if it deals damage, just to allow them to stick around for a touch longer, either 1 if it deals damage at all, or 1 per damage dealt. I also agree with upping their defenses somehow, or make them 4 SS.

Some minor changes I wish to see to the new upgrades:

Royal Indignation: Allow non-living models to become Fae somehow, possibly by simply making all Minion and Enforcer models Fae, and the living ones undead. Also, add summoned models to the list of models affected by the ability, so as not to have hired in, undead, Fae Changelings running about next to their summoned, living, non-Fae changelings.

Woe is Me: Change the available summons to Incorporeal, Woe minion(?) models, raise the cast some (maybe 6?), and make the TN 10  + SS cost, as with most other summons. Given my wishes, it would also function similarly to Molly's summoning, but that would probably be too powerful, due to the Wp shenanigans in a Pandora crew.

Aeslin has been mentioned, but I think simply removing the  from her attack, and, therefore, the related ability from the front of her card, would go a long way to reducing her in-game costs. Perhaps give her something to take hits on beyond her 9 Wds, or some way to heal, so that the  to Ca actions is relevant.

Thanks for reading, that got longer than I expected

[santaclaws01]

13 hours ago, Xekros said:

Royal Indignation: Allow non-living models to become Fae somehow, possibly by simply making all Minion and Enforcer models Fae, and the living ones undead. Also, add summoned models to the list of models affected by the ability, so as not to have hired in, undead, Fae Changelings running about next to their summoned, living, non-Fae changelings.

Let's not have the Hooded Rider running around as a Fae. The upgrade would already be worth it just for the tankyness it gives Titania, everything else is just icing on the cake.

And suggesting errata to things that have only seen play for a little over a month is a bit premature.

[Luca 2.0]

On 1/10/2017 at 11:32 AM, Xekros said:

 

Allow Zoraida to summon the voodoo doll as a (1) action, once per activation. Whether that comes in the form of simply making it a (1) action and disallowing the Will-O-Wisps from taking it, or adding a bit to the end that says Zoraida herself can take it as a (1) would have to be tested.

Be care! Zoraida cau use will of the whisp for summoning voodoo doll so you don't need to waste any single ap of the master!!

Sorrows' Life Leech could do with healing them if it deals damage, just to allow them to stick around for a touch longer, either 1 if it deals damage at all, or 1 per damage dealt. I also agree with upping their defenses somehow, or make them 4 SS.

they could be buffet imho but not too much just max 1 heal or they will refull. they are just weak against cast. with pandora and incorporeal you don't need to win duel with them, you can still resist to 2/3 attack 

[Natsugawa]

I'd like to see some changes to the less-played Nephilim so you could actually play a somewhat competitive (or just fun) thematic All-Nephilim crew.

[Math Mathonwy]

I would add "other friendly Puppets" to Strum the Threads and take out the positive modifier to damage from Collodi's Attack (or give it the gun icon but that seems somehow weird and makes me think that Collodi is physically throwing out strings like she was fly fishing).

[Angelshard]

Well Pandora has a gun too, which doesn't really make sense either.

I honestly don't think I would really notice if his attack lost the  to damage. I mean it's nice and all, but it's not the damage that makes the attack good.

Other on strum would be fair although it would hurt quite a lot.

[Math Mathonwy]

5 minutes ago, Angelshard said:

Well Pandora has a gun too, which doesn't really make sense either.

True. It sorta makes even less sense.

5 minutes ago, Angelshard said:

I honestly don't think I would really notice if his attack lost the  to damage. I mean it's nice and all, but it's not the damage that makes the attack good.

I dunno - I've been doing pretty consistent damage with Collodi and her Triggers are all after damaging so SS prevention would work better as a defense if there was no modifier.

5 minutes ago, Angelshard said:

Other on strum would be fair although it would hurt quite a lot.

It would be big, agreed, but OTOH it is really weird that she can get it. Her AP are amazing value and she can get four trivially. With the Effigy buffs she can often heal the damage while doing things she was going to do anyway.

[Angelshard]

True you can prevent the triggers, but it still requires at least a moderate (uncheatable, which I font think is even a word) and you can just attack again, after all the opponent can only prevent seven times, and taking away a soul stone is still quite good. As you say four ap are trivial, so you will almost always go through if you really need to

[santaclaws01]

I think a good change to at least the AP stealing trigger would be on flipping/cheating severe damage, and removing the  to its damage track. Additionally adding a third suit requirement to said trigger. Something to make it more resource intensive.

[Xekros]

On 10/1/2017 at 4:34 PM, santaclaws01 said:

Let's not have the Hooded Rider running around as a Fae. The upgrade would already be worth it just for the tankyness it gives Titania, everything else is just icing on the cake.

And suggesting errata to things that have only seen play for a little over a month is a bit premature.

Thinking on it further, my issue is not with the non-living models thing, but with the lack of altering summoned models. Secondly, I'd simply add Fae to the emissary on its own upgrade for Titania.

These are less errata hopes, and more what I'd have liked to say had I access to the beta.

 

@Luca 2.0 My concept for the change to the summon would disallow Will-O-Wisps from summoning the doll, as it would no longer be a (2) action, barring the ability within the action to allow Zoraida to take it as a (1), specifically.

I do agree that allowing a heal per damage would be a bit much, as it's pretty much Regeneration +1 for each model which activates near it when healing a max of 1.

[tmod]

I'm wondering if upping the ss cost of illuminated by one would not solve some of the crowding around 6-7 stones. Young Nephilim would not be invalidated as much by illuminated, and the addicts would still be strong at 8ss, I think. Maybe add another ability like the depleted's explode on death ability or something to give them a small boost with thematic Lynch. Oh, and I think beckoners could use a drop to 6ss as well, to better compete with Lilitu. Thus a pair of illuminated/beckoner would still cost the same...

In general I'm more in favour of coming at these issues kind of sideways; buffing young Nephilim for example by them loosing a stone in order compete with illuminated could in turn cause them to invalidate other models. The change from 7ss to 8ss is a much smaller change than 6ss to 5ss, and is less likely to cause unintended consequences (ie stuffed piglets).

[edopersichetti]

On 9/26/2017 at 9:51 AM, Luca 2.0 said:

Hey guys just a question, the errata when will be released? They will nerf Gremlins/ ressers as i heard and buff neverborn for sure or it's just a wish list?

It's a (bad) wish. Poor Gremlins sure had their fill of being cuddled...

[Luca 2.0]

On 7/10/2017 at 7:43 AM, Xekros said:

Thinking on it further, my issue is not with the non-living models thing, but with the lack of altering summoned models. Secondly, I'd simply add Fae to the emissary on its own upgrade for Titania.

These are less errata hopes, and more what I'd have liked to say had I access to the beta.

 

@Luca 2.0 My concept for the change to the summon would disallow Will-O-Wisps from summoning the doll, as it would no longer be a (2) action, barring the ability within the action to allow Zoraida to take it as a (1), specifically.

I do agree that allowing a heal per damage would be a bit much, as it's pretty much Regeneration +1 for each model which activates near it when healing a max of 1.

maybe but imho will o whisp can copy a 2 tactical action... the only one good atm is zoraida's summon. so i guess wyrd concept that model to help zoraida! they can be good for something else... ok but they are not so strong! so imho to be honest why they should nerf this "combo/sinergy"

[santaclaws01]

31 minutes ago, Luca 2.0 said:

maybe but imho will o whisp can copy a 2 tactical action... the only one good atm is zoraida's summon. so i guess wyrd concept that model to help zoraida! they can be good for something else... ok but they are not so strong! so imho to be honest why they should nerf this "combo/sinergy"

There's also the Spawn Mother's summon, and the Poltergeists Paranormal Activity. Copying Flurry can have a few useful effects, like the Dreamer giving one of the the Playtime condition and them flurrying on Teddy to get 3 cards for no real cost. With wave 5 and the Adze they have another useful (2) action.

[Mortarion]

I think that the problem with Changlings are not the Changlings themselves but their interaction with the Trapper. Normally, their ability to copy any attack is balanced by the fact that they can't really take much damage but when they can stay on the other side of the board this becomes much less of an issue. Adding a restriction that copied actions may only target models within 10" would make the interction with Trapper much less problematic, while still keeping their usefulness for other more "fun" uses. Another way to fix this would be to add a restriction to the Trapper's attack that it may not be used by other models.

Regarding Collodi's "My Will", a way to make it compare more equally to other Obey-type actions would be to have the  only apply to Puppets. This would also favour thematic crews.

And I agree that Vasilisa needs some buff. For a 9 SS model (11 with her upgrade) she dies way too easy. Adding 2 wounds or possibly giving her Armour would be a good start. 

[Luca 2.0]

1 hour ago, santaclaws01 said:

There's also the Spawn Mother's summon, and the Poltergeists Paranormal Activity. Copying Flurry can have a few useful effects, like the Dreamer giving one of the the Playtime condition and them flurrying on Teddy to get 3 cards for no real cost. With wave 5 and the Adze they have another useful (2) action.

I still thing that summoning a doll is much better than the rest! poltergeist is bad! and for the rest you got better option than what u said! i can be agree only with spawn mother... even if i'm not a fan! 

[catbat07]

As an avid Collodi player, I feel that nerfing Collodi's attack would do very little. While strong, it is often just less powerful than his obey and I find myself using that instead. You could give the obey a target number to work, or remove the positive flips, as this would allow players a lot of choice when choosing how to play Collodi.

[ringsnake]

I would fix all the whack-a-doodle rules interactions between Pandora and the Tara/Void models. I've payed two games against Tara with Pandora, and the rules themselves made the game frustrating and unfun.

[santaclaws01]

21 hours ago, ringsnake said:

I would fix all the whack-a-doodle rules interactions between Pandora and the Tara/Void models. I've payed two games against Tara with Pandora, and the rules themselves made the game frustrating and unfun.

What interactions?

[ringsnake]

On 10/13/2017 at 12:54 PM, santaclaws01 said:

What interactions?

Pandora and some of her followers can force models to activate first or last or mess with activation. 

Other models like Candy have triggers based on activation of first or last in a turn.

Tara and some of her voids have abilities that trigger on activating first and/or last, and also play with activation order.

It's a real mess.

[Adran]

9 minutes ago, ringsnake said:

Pandora and some of her followers can force models to activate first or last or mess with activation. 

Other models like Candy have triggers based on activation of first or last in a turn.

Tara and some of her voids have abilities that trigger on activating first and/or last, and also play with activation order.

It's a real mess.

Well its only really a problem with Candy and sours. And its not restricted to her facing Tara.

All the other abilities that I can remember work fine (or are no more complicated than summoning a new model would be). Granted Tara wanting to activate first can be ruined by Pandoras activation tricks, but that's not really a rules problem. 

[santaclaws01]

58 minutes ago, ringsnake said:

Pandora and some of her followers can force models to activate first or last or mess with activation. 

Other models like Candy have triggers based on activation of first or last in a turn.

Tara and some of her voids have abilities that trigger on activating first and/or last, and also play with activation order.

It's a real mess.

I would hardly call any of those "whack-a-doodle" or in need of an errata. Tara has actions that can only be used if she activates at a certain time. Pandora can mess with activation order and Candy has abilities for if a model activates at a certain time, nothing about any of that is overly complex or cause the game to break down in any way, it's just not a good match up for Tara, just like Marcus isn't a good match up for Ramos.

[Corwin]

The interaction I'm unsure about with that match up is Tara's reactivate with Mood swings from Depression. How I figured it would go is the model with Mood swings would go last like normal then Tara gets reactivate and gets to go. Is that how it would work? 

[Nikodemus]

Do you mean the Nobody Likes Me condition?

"Nobody Likes Me: This model may not Activate while there are any other models in its Crew without the Nobody Likes Me Condition which may still Activate"

If Tara does her (0) she gets a condition that gives her Reactivate condition once all other in-play models in her crew have activated. If other model in her crew has NLM, Tara herself is not eligible to activate a second time because she doesn't, at that time, have the Reactivate condition.

edit:

If you do mean Mood Swing condition (not found in Depression upgrade), same applies.

"Mood Swing: When this model's controller has an opportunity to Activate a model, the opponent may choose for this model to Activate instead if it is available to Activate."