How do I become a better player?

[The Warlock]

First off, I've been playing Malifaux since January and in that time I've only had one victory- one round in a henchman hardcore round where I pulled off assassinate (placed 7/9). Other than that it's been almost nine months of losses and it's bugging me more than I'd like it to/care to admit. Over the past couple of months my attitude has soured towards playing the game, most recently when I was pipped at the post in placing 3rd in a tournament enforcer brawl. Being beaten by 2VP got to me as all previous tournaments were last or almost-last and placing 3rd would've been awesome. I fumed for a few days, which has led to this post- I'm getting far too annoyed at losing now and would rather overcome my attitude than rage-quit the game.

I've gotten better at getting schemes and strategies fulfilled despite constant loses, though not having a real and solid standard Malifaux win is stifling my enjoyment of the game. A win at this stage is probably more psychological at this stage than anything else- sort of a 'I can actually win games'. Don't get me wrong, quite a few of my games are fun, it's just that getting beaten (by better players) constantly is getting me down and getting on my nerves. I really don't want my attitude to ruin future games as it's unbecoming of me and isn't how a Malifaux player should behave.

What I want to ask (and need to ask) is how do I not let constant loses get to me? How do I overcome the discouragement that I'm feeling? How do I keep the annoyance in check?

Any help would be greatly appreciated 

[Four_N_Six]

I have issues losing under certain conditions.  Mainly speaking, if my opponent capitalizes on my ignorance.  I don't mean in the game overall.  I mean I've never seen that model, or that entire crew before, and they don't tell me key information on a model.

Perfect example:  I'm Dreamer vs. the Victorias.  Never seen them before.  My nightmares are nearby and one Victoria cleaved through and killed almost every nightmare I had.  Afterwards he says "Yeah, you shouldn't stand around the Victorias like that."  At that point, it's just bad sportsmanship.  I tell my opponents when they're about to screw themselves over, so that the game comes down to skill and strategy and not my opponent not knowing to be near Brewmaster.

I got a lot better once I started learning other crews.  I have two friends I play with a lot, and they both use the same few masters each, one Arcanist/Outcast and the other Guild.  Once I knew what to expect, it wasn't a problem anymore.  Same with them fighting against my Gremlins/Neverborn.

Learning your own models is important, too.  I forget abilities some of the time, and it's always when it's a model that isn't being targeted.  Lenny gives an Aura to nearby models that is essentially Armor +1, but since I'm not looking at his card when something else is being attacked, I would forget about it a lot until I'd used him a lot more.  That's definitely one of the big things.

I still don't worry about denial.  To me, scoring my own points is more important than denying my opponent.  Opportunities will come up to deny them that won't interfere with scoring your own, but I'd say focus on your own scoring first and once you get better at doing that, work denial into your game plans.  If there's a scheme runner dropping markers and you have something nearby, I'm not saying to ignore the thing, but I also wouldn't shoot a model across the board to deal with it if he can score me points, too.

Like I said, learning your opponent's models is paramount, so you know what to expect and how to avoid it.  My two friends I play with mostly are good about warning me about new models stuff, and we let each other take actions back that end up screwing you over (walk actions to bad situations, etc.).  Most people seem alright taking actions back as long as cards haven't been flipped, because the Malifaux community is a lot better at just having fun over winning most of the time.

[Tris]

@ Four_N_Six

You could just ask your opponent about specific rules, take a quick "so, these are my models, and these are their abilities, what`s yours?" before you get the game started and don`t feel like you shouldn`t ask for their cards - as you said, it`s important to know what the opponent can achieve for you to plan accordingly, so just ask them

 

Shouldn`t be a problem in a "normal" game, and even at tournament level we normally get quickly through the models we hired for that game.

 

As for the main question here, that`s a difficult thing, as it depends so much on you ....

It sounds silly but just try to enjoy your games, that`s the important thing.

Don´t "try hard" to win, play, and let the win happen eventually.

Do you always play against players who you consider to be better than you, is there nobody who started the game at the same time as you?

Do you also play "normal" games or just Enforcer Brawls/Henchman Hardcore, as these hold completely different challenges than a standard 50SS game.

Which master do you play, is he/she difficult to begin with, do you generally enjoy his/her playstyle?

[The Warlock]

Enforcer brawls and henchmen hardcores are their own events that my local Henchman puts on. Everything else is standard Malifaux. There's a lot of fun games that have been played, though there's also games where I've been annihilated from turn 1.

I'm the newest player in the group, outside of a couple of players returning from 1.5e. Been using Lilith for the most part, with a few months of using Ramos. Usually I try to get my schemes and strategy done and focus less on denial, though I'm not even sure how I'd even deny VP. I feel familiar enough with most of my models, though opponents models, not so much.

 

[Dogmantra]

A couple of random tips off the top of my head:

Try to identify which schemes go well with which models, and which ones are easier and which ones are harder. Personally I find Exhaust Their Forces/Catch & Release to be the easiest schemes of GG2016, so I'll take those with top priority. Obviously you don't play the same faction as me and you're not the same person but if you experiment, you'll find some that are much easier than others. Capitalise on these when they come up.

Ask your opponent how you could improve after every game. I often find in games I win that there's a decision or two my opponent makes where I'm relieved that they chose that action instead of something different. Your opponents might be able to suggest where you're going wrong.

Use focus! One action on a straight flip is often much much more potent than two on a , and s can help mitigate bad card draw.

Get in the habit of running out of soulstones. Don't squander them all right on the first turn, but if it's turn 4 and you've got a few left, start being a bit more liberal with their use.

[Tokapondora]

If I knew how Vassal worked I'd love to help out hands on but for now; keep asking your opponents after matches for misplays you made, mistakes you made in crew building, and at what moments they managed to get their schemes in and why. Have a hearty discussion on the match and review what models and plays worked and didnt work; if they didn't, what did you or your opponent do that made it fail. Most players have some habits they tend towards, and some of these might be real gamebreakers. If you notice a pattern in the feedback you're getting, see how you can change that. Or conversely, how you can utilize the good things you're doing and go about how to capitalize on them.

If you have someone you get on with well, ask if he wants to do a game where he basically runs you through his decisions. I've helped lots of newer players get their footing in the game by basically being the microsoft paperclip all throughout the fight. Explain why I've made a series of moves after its succes (or failure) and what I was aiming at in the long run, if they're about to make a grave misplay elaborate on how I would capitalize on that, have him point out the occasional weak point in his setup.

As for temperament... I wouldn't know. Remember there's a big difference in getting fun out of trying to win and getting fun from winning. 

 

Some basic rules, and annoyingly they're all heavily dependent on the board/schemes/factions/etc so there's no "right" answers, really.

Positioning is everything. Some models don't mind handling things on their own, some buff others heavily, and some opponent's might have bubbles of danger as well - always try and be up to date on the ranges of models and where you put them and how easy it is for them to close that gap. Try to project those bubbles on the field and try getting a sense of the danger areas posses.

Crew composition is everything 2.0. Naturally, you're gonna need the right tools for the job; you'll quickly learn how certain models do or don't get on with scoring schemes, but don't forget that what models you pick also determine how your opponent will be scoring. 

And always think ahead. Not just about what you're gonna do; look at what your opponent wants to do. What sort of crew did they bring, what's in the scheme pool, and what direction are they gonna take that in. If you leave that model behind cover, will he be safe or will he be obstructed from charging next turn; where will that scheme runner want to go and is it worth the effort to intercept him; can this model really hold out and tie up those two enemies or am I gonna have to place something near to him scare your opponent off... Try and think of what you might do if you encountered your set-ups. You're bound to know what places they need to prod to make your cardhouse crumble; how easily accesible are they and is it worth the effort to do something about it.

 

And just out of curiousity, if you want, since 2 is easier to test than the others, PM me or post here or w/e...

Assuming a western town board with just a grid of 8-9ish houses and some crates, what crew would you bring for these schemes and why? What is your basic gameplan gonna be, and what's your plan B? Your opponent will be Lilith or Ramos, depending on who you dont pick.

 

Standard deployment

Squatter's Rights (One in the open center street, the others in the alleys)

Line in the Sand

Assassinate

Breakthrough

Plant Explosives

Make them Suffer.

[HydroMog]

everyone so far has good points. however i have a few questions for the OP, such as have you played any other mini-based wargame and/or CCG/TCG.

if you have then great, that is a good starting point. if you have played card games before such as magic or yugioh (ugh cant believe i wrote that name) then you can pick up on card interactions between models. which can actually help with list building.

also if you have played a mini-based wargame or even a pc/console based rts then again that is another good starting point. as having experience in either of these can help with tactics and strategy.

the trick however is combining the two.

just a warning this may sound bad or may sound like myself and others that do this have no friends but that isnt always the case. anyway, id suggest that if you have table space (due to pets) or floor space (no pets) then set up a standard 2 player game and play against yourself. this will help you practice rules and interactions that you may be confused on or just cant remember. it will also help you with your in game tactics and setting up combo pieces (if you have any in the lists), not to mention if you make a mistake you dont have people taking the maximum advantage and can learn how to rebound from said mistake.

but the second best advice for malifaux i can give is play games like final fantasy tactics. its pretty much malifaux dumbed down, due to not having all the abilities of the malifaux world unless your running geomancers lol.

and finally try to find someone that will take you under his/her wing to help you improve at your LGS. this is usually the best thing to do if you need help as they might give you ideas that you normally wouldnt have by yourself. and check out the PullMyFinger wiki from time to time, i forget stuff alot and that place helps me out tremendously.

[Bazlord_Prime]

 

just a warning this may sound bad or may sound like myself and others that do this have no friends but that isnt always the case. anyway, id suggest that if you have table space (due to pets) or floor space (no pets) then set up a standard 2 player game and play against yourself. this will help you practice rules and interactions that you may be confused on or just cant remember. it will also help you with your in game tactics and setting up combo pieces (if you have any in the lists), not to mention if you make a mistake you dont have people taking the maximum advantage and can learn how to rebound from said mistake.

and finally try to find someone that will take you under his/her wing to help you improve at your LGS. this is usually the best thing to do if you need help as they might give you ideas that you normally wouldnt have by yourself. and check out the PullMyFinger wiki from time to time, i forget stuff alot and that place helps me out tremendously.

No - THIS is going to sound sad...:

I've actually set up and played Vassal games against myself a few times now. Yep. Just cause i wanted to practise with some new models, see what they did, and start learning their rules and interactions. And it works (for me), really well. It's confusing as hell to begin with tho. But one issue with just reading abilities on cards is you don't have the factors of terrain, a hostile opposing player, and random card flips denying you things. When you mock up a game on Vassal, you do. And it takes up no table space - handy.

Also, Pullmyfinger is awesome. And I've found the Schemes & Stones podcasts very useful for getting the outline of a Master's strengths, weaknesses, synergies and complimentary models. If you haven't listened to the one for your Master, Lilith, I'd definitely recommend it.

[Cadaverousbirth]

I have played against myself to learn how to use a new master. My first game with Marcus was against myself (Perdita) and I got wrecked, and I won. It was great.

[Yipikayey]

 

I have played against myself to learn how to use a new master. My first game with Marcus was against myself (Perdita) and I got wrecked, and I won. It was great.

I do this with every master i buy. It also helps to get the hang on cards before playing against someone, where you would feel more pressured to not waste time reading your cards properly. It is also very useful to learn how to use your pushes, activation order, how the combo work, etc, etc...

@OP

If i were you, i would listen to the scheme and stones podcast if you haven't, and play the exact same crew over and over and over and over. The biggest mistake i see people to do, is to wildly change their range of models often, so they never really get a grip on how they work. Lilith can do that because the list is pretty flexible on itself.

The list is:

Lilith --- Beckon, Wings (Aether)*

Nekima

Doppleganger

Johan --- Retribution eye

Mr Graves

Primordial magic

Terror tot

Mysterious effigy (terror tot)**

*Assassination is on schemes, or if you want to keep lilith safe

** You can favor the terror tot for a second scheme runner if you want to or you don't have the mysterious effigy. The effigy is good because it allows you to push away from charges with lilith and keep her safe overal..

It is also difficult to give specific advice, because we don't know what you do. 

[H4ml3t]

When playing solo games how do you manage your hands? Seems hard to surprise myself when I know what both teams are holding and planning.

[The Warlock]

I'll give schemes and stones a listen to sometime this afternoon, and may try to set up a me vs me match this weekend as work doesn't give me much time during the week to do things.

Thanks for all the advice and help so far, everyone. Taking a small leave from organising any games as I need to reset my attitude so I'm not fuming after another loss.

[DrEvilmonki]

Also you say you are playing against friends who are more experienced. Ask them for help, or your local henchman. Tell them you are having troubles and ask if they are willing to have a game where they take their time and explain every action, why are they taking it, what are they trying to achieve. Get a friend to couch you while you are playing against another. What would they do with your crew and why.

Make sure you are really comfortable with the rules. I found getting my head around relenting and the difference between ML  and actions/ SH and actions were the ones that really made me look at all my models and how they can interact with each other.

I will also echo scheme & stones. I would also listen to Before we Begin (they go very indepth on crew selection for strategies and schemes)

[Gnomezilla]

 

When playing solo games how do you manage your hands? Seems hard to surprise myself when I know what both teams are holding and planning.

When I asked the same I was told to not use hands but to give myself six uses of Bayou Two-Card (cheat by flipping another card from the deck instead of using one from your hand) per turn instead. While I haven't tried it yet, the theory seems sound.

[Yipikayey]

Or when you have a choice, always assume your opponent has the best cards and best brains. Kinda like if you were facing Donald Trump.

[Adran]

 

When playing solo games how do you manage your hands? Seems hard to surprise myself when I know what both teams are holding and planning.

I'd suggest either trying to not use that knowledge.

or if you can't, accept that you aren't going to face gotcha moments when they spring a red joker on you unexpectedly.  The Bayou two card suggestion doesn't help if you are playing models with TNs or set suits who use their cheats to know what they can actually do. 

Make your plans asuuimg that you don't knwo what the opponent is going to do, or try and have 2 different plans for eaxch side so you don't know for sure what you'll do next. Its not a perfect simulation of an actual game but should help ypou work out what things work together. 

 

[Terwox]

 

Enforcer brawls and henchmen hardcores are their own events that my local Henchman puts on. Everything else is standard Malifaux. There's a lot of fun games that have been played, though there's also games where I've been annihilated from turn 1.

I'm the newest player in the group, outside of a couple of players returning from 1.5e. Been using Lilith for the most part, with a few months of using Ramos. Usually I try to get my schemes and strategy done and focus less on denial, though I'm not even sure how I'd even deny VP. I feel familiar enough with most of my models, though opponents models, not so much.

 

 

Bring a different master so that people can't do tech picks against you.  (E.g., Anna Lovelace vs. Lilith / Beckoners, etc.)

Alternatively, ask them to play as Lilith against you playing their crew -- it might help you learn a few things you've missed for both crews when you're focusing on the other ones.

[Bazlord_Prime]

On 9/5/2016 at 2:15 PM, H4ml3t said:

When playing solo games how do you manage your hands? Seems hard to surprise myself when I know what both teams are holding and planning.

I'm lucky (?) in that I've got a fairly poor memory, so I can kinda get away with suprising myself most of the time.  I admit - you've got to try not to favour one crew over the other, but if it's the shiny new crew that you're trying out, you often begin to notice yourself saying things like "Okay, so I've got <xxx> in my hand, and he's got...", so then it's a little less than impartial, but:

Remember - this is only a training exercise.  It's not an actual game.  It doesn't mean anything.  Don't get hung up on trying to make it an ACTUAL PvP experience.  The things I find most useful that I get out of it are:

- Learning positioning for various models/effects/auras etc, especially with terrain getting in the way

- Learning how resource intensive a particular model/attack/synergy can be, and how often I'm likely to have the cards needed in hand vs how many Stones I may want to take in order to help that

- Learning activation order, for particular effects and synergies.

That's just me, but I think we hear a lot on podcasts etc about how "this model can do that, and if this other model is next to it then it gets boosted", etc.  But these comments don't take into account where you might expect those models to be in relation to each other at any given time, what kinds of cards you're going to need in hand, and how much of your AP are going to be dedicated to doing such and such attack (or whatever), which might leave you short to do other things.

[Morgs]

PROTIP: Lose a LOT of games and pay attention while doing so. The attention bit is critical. Then you will learn where you have gone wrong and can avoid those mistakes in future.

[SinJ]

We are pretty spoiled here in Saint Louis that we have a pretty competitive meta but overall really great people. At the end of your game if you can stomach it ask your opponent what you did wrong and what you could have done differently.

Unfamiliarity is very unforgiving in Malifaux in general. If you are playing against a new crew or master there's a high probability you will lose flat out. Playing against people of your same skill level while also having a henchman nearby is also very beneficial to make sure you learn the game correctly.

[Freman]

Play regularly. Malifaux is a game that requires constant polishing.

Play at least ten games with a master in a variety of strats and schemes with a variety of crews in order to get a good feel for how they play. I'm going to focus on Hamelin for a while because there is so much he can do.

Read the books, including the rules for other factions and masters you don't play. Get a feel for how they work.

Don't stress about losing. It happens, particularly if your opponents are more experienced than you are.

[bertmac]

Echoing a lot of what has been said. Learn your crew. Learn as much as you can, read cards if you haven't faced them before.

Could be worth just sitting with another player seeing how they use their hands and stones. We all do it differently.

There was an article in wyrd chronicles a while ago, basically once you've worked out how to complete your own strats and schemes the easiest way to deny points is the strategy as you know what they are trying to achieve whereas you can't always tell with schemes.

[benjoewoo]

Memorize your core. If it takes 30 seconds to pick up a card and read one sentence, e.g. the skill rating on your attack, damage track, and built in effects on hit, and you run 7 models, you'll spend approximately 30 minutes over 5 turns between set up, deployment, and reading simple text. That's not game time that's really moving stuff forward and doesn't include measuring, reading triggers, or explaining stuff to your opponent as the case may be.

Memorize your core means all the stuff on your master and the upgrades you always take. From there, expand to the henchmen, enforcers, and minions you always take. If you aren't taking it in ~70%+ of your games, work on memorizing the stuff later. 

Memorize your core also applies to strategies, schemes, and to some extent faction match ups. If you play multiple masters, memorize which masters you'll be taking for a set of strategies and schemes or against a particular faction. If you're playing one master only, memorize what models you take against that faction--these are also 70%+ models you should memorize even if you only have 1 opponent out of 5 that plays that faction, because then your decision making is faster and you won't experience decision fatigue--need that brain power for thinking tactics, not choosing your model.

I happen to own the strategies and scheme deck, so it's a little easier for me visually, but you can do the same thing with 19 pieces of paper. Put out all 19 schemes in front of you. Then, go through each one and flip it face down if your master is weak in accomplishing it. Don't worry about whether you can deny it, just whether you can accomplish it. If you feel you can accomplish the scheme consistently in 60%+ of your matches, leave it face up. If you feel it's less and/or you're just not comfortable, then flip it face down. Repeat for each scheme, and when you're done you'll know by the face up cards/papers which schemes you can regularly take vs. the ones you'll have to make judgment calls on when the pools aren't so good. With strategies do the same thing, and you'll know inherently which set ups will mean you're aiming mostly for schemes vs. the strat and what kind of game you're playing, e.g. you're looking at a 7-8 point game because you are unlikely to get full VP on the strat, so you have to plan on denying the opponent some points somewhere.

Hope that helps--you only get 2 hours in a round by default in tournaments, so anything you can do to speed up your play will help you get to the end of Turn 5. This is a long process--I rarely get to the end of Turn 4 and usually end games on Turn 3 or part way through Turn 4, so I'm not perfect at this either, but I've gotten better from ending tournament games in Turns 2 and 3.