Stur Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 I know this is very dependant on schemes and strats and so on. But generally will I be using the Ice Golem much with a raspy crew after I get over the initial beginner phase and start to become better at the game? Or is it that cool model that sells the box and will only ever see table time when that 1 scheme or strat is in play and otherwise will collect dust? Would a Rail golem with mei feng or any of the other masters see a lot more table time regardless of strats and schemes than the Ice golem would with raspy? Just wondering because the Ice golem is the thing pulling me most over to raspy but I cant really seem to find any real positive remarks about him. Only bad Df, hes slow, toss rarely sees any play outside of tossing ice gamin turn 1, easy to kill, cant really put down the hurt and so on.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solkan Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 Does a Rail Golem with Mei Feng or Kaeris see more table time than an Ice Golem? Yes. Is your Ice Golem going to be sad and unloved in your model collection so you should abandon it? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krosanreaper Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 My Ice golem has seen little play since I got snowstorm and the blessed of December, but they mostly just fit my play style better. There are times I'd rather have the golem than the blessed. He hits hard gives out slow and his armor help if Raspy hits him in combat to get blasts on the enemy models. Just off the top of my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retnab Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 The Ice Golem without help is worse than the other Golem-like models, yes. But if you're doing a Frozen Heart synergy crew it actually becomes pretty fantastic with Snowstorm, Ice Gamin, and December Acolytes helping it in their own ways. My Henchman Hardcore list features Snowstorm and an Ice Golem for a shockingly fast Golem to the face handing out Slow and good damage. So from my own experience, yes you will continue to use the Golem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fog Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 I find he's more playable with ice dancers as they can handle your speed needs and he can anchor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordon Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 Personally, I feel like the emissary has made the ice golem almost completely irrelevant. It almost hits as hard, is more survivable, waaaay faster and is the best ice mirror Raspy has access too. It also comes with a real nifty ability to pull other frozen heart models from engagement so they can be used as mirrors (or to get Raspy herself out of an engagement). Df2 is just abysmal and the +2 armour doesn't properly compensate for this drawback. Just compare it to Izamu who I think is a comparable model in terms of abilities and role. I feel like the golem should be sporting something in the neighbourhood of 12-13 Wds in order for it to compensate for that Df2. Even lowly 4ss models are often hitting it frequently enough make them a serious threat in number. I feel like he needs some help Now that being said, I think the new construct/beast upgrade available can help out with the golems speed if being run in a list with the blessed. I've yet to test it out to see if it's more work than it's worth, or if it's simply better to run the emissary, but it's worth testing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancater Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 The essential problem for me, as he rarely sees my Raspy lists if ever and never anything not Raspy at all, is that he is a pure and simple damage dealing melee beatstick and in order to really do this properly you must take other models to make him really work. His damage output is impressive but he's slow and very easy to dink down with ranged and maybe a charge with his paltry Df2. Sure with his armor he often (Ignore Armor is a killer for him) takes only 1 dam but this adds up quick and with his Df you'll be finding it impossible to avoid damage completely even if you cheat 9/10. Because of his Df2 and low (in relation to his hit magnetism) wounds his Arm2 will not really protect him overly long without any healing or significant other defense (such as good Df triggers), if he survives past 3rd turn he is either being ignored or was lucky. He simply is not durable enough to be tanky. His throw is an interesting schtick but ultimately very niche (throwing Ht1 models). His huge damage output attack will (if it does not ambush an opponent) very, very rarely be used. Anything with the wounds to genuinely be at risk will do everything in there power to avoid being in his melee when he has yet to activate, its a 2AP melee, yeah you can zerg a low wound model but its an untoughed heavy hitter you want and they'll only close if they are confident of the alpha kill and with his low Df and Armor they can be pretty certain of this (or not and thus avoid him). Thus he needs Imbued energies and/or Snowstorm and/or Ice Dancers and/or The Captain at least one preferably two to really make him work. None of these models are cheap and all of them also buff other models equally. Additionally Snowstorm does some of what Ice Golem does anyway. Rasputina does amazing damage, extra raw damage is the lowest of her crew priorities, she needs speed. The Golem ain't that. For raw hit power the Blessed of December is faster and hits hard enough to make it count, she'll live longer or at least drain more resources to kill. Snowstorm adds good damage and is a much better defensive piece and buffs crew movement a real need. December Acolytes are cheaper, faster, more flexible, pack good ranged and are potentially vicious in melee. Outside Frozen Heart several Arcanist models are simply either faster and as killy (Cerebus or Howard) or more flexible and still killy (Joss and Cassandra for example) or cheaper and nearly as good (Slate Ridge with new buff, Rattler). So yeah, subject to any surprising upgrade or review the problem is you need to take other models with the Mega Popsicle to make him really work and not end up looking like an ice sculpture that has been attacked by a confused woodpecker. The problem is that these other models equally buff his superior alternatives anyway. What he brings (damage) Raspy's crew needs the least and other crews have viable alternatives. What her crew could use; speed or a really good tank damage soak he simply does not do well without significant support. Sad but true. You can use him, he is not useless or fatally flawed, but there are significant better options at the moment. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stur Posted August 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 Damn sounds more and more like I should reconsider getting the rasputina box since he was the main selling point for me. Rasputina sounds cool and all but without the ice golem it kinda looses its appeal to me :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solkan Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 I think half of the reason why the ice golem has melee expert and that (3) action is to be scary looking, not so that someone actually tries to use it. If you write Toss off as a gimmick, you're basically writing off the special thing that model can do: get gamin (2) AP worth of movement in the right direction without a TN. Using Toss to try to cause something probably isn't the most useful thing you can use that action for. And when you have a new master who summons Ht 1 gamin, I'd think a gamin launcher would be more attractive. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancater Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 Rasputina is great fun to play and I've taken and won with the Ice Golem on occasion, including using Gamin toss (snowball fight!) and ice smashing an unhurt Pandora once (when it comes off it is devastating). The Raspy box does play solidly. But if, and I mean if, you plan to play veteran players and tournaments then the Ice Golem is not ideal, he will not hurt you but he will not turn games unless a experienced player makes an error. I also love the look of the Snowstorm so that helps my decision making parameters. For fun and casual I will take him without hesitation and have fun. He's also not fabulously hard to paint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-solad0r Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 Use ir as arcane emisary. A giant electric bull doesnt fit to me... XD. I always fear a golem with sub zero. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durza Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 The Ice Golem can work with Colette, give it Armour of December and Prompt it around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 3 hours ago, D-solad0r said: I always fear a golem with sub zero. An Ice Golem can't get Sub Zero, the upgrade only gives it to minions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 Ice Golem bad? No! Ice Golem smash! ... Sorry, I've been trying to resist but seeing this topic title in the active threads again and again finally eroded my resolve 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stur Posted August 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 33 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said: Sorry, I've been trying to resist but seeing this topic title in the active threads again and again finally eroded my resolve Hehe sorry completely new player here. Been reading searching info and could not find anything from 2016. Only 2015 and I have found some info on for example metal gamins for 2015 where they were cool but another in 2016 where they were trash not sure how much has changed if anything. So thought I would ask to be sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-solad0r Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 2 hours ago, Bengt said: An Ice Golem can't get Sub Zero, the upgrade only gives it to minions. Right, fan made spanish translate is wrong. I dont like him know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordon Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 It also doesn't help that Raspy keeps getting great models released for her (not a complaint). I just find it difficult to justify the golem when you could instead hire another acolyte, silent one, or now ice dancer and emissary. She has so many models that work amazing well with her and so it seems less excusable to find points to hire the golem. It's just unfortunate because the golem looks so awesome. I guess using it as proxy for the emissary as mentioned above would still make sense since the bull doesn't really fit thematically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 4 hours ago, Jordon said: It also doesn't help that Raspy keeps getting great models released for her (not a complaint). I just find it difficult to justify the golem when you could instead hire another acolyte, silent one, or now ice dancer and emissary. She has so many models that work amazing well with her and so it seems less excusable to find points to hire the golem. It's just unfortunate because the golem looks so awesome. I guess using it as proxy for the emissary as mentioned above would still make sense since the bull doesn't really fit thematically. This is the biggest issue with the Ice Golem, there is an awful lot of competition for what he does really well. Many of these other options do more for the crew as a whole than the Ice Golem. This though; 14 hours ago, solkan said: If you write Toss off as a gimmick, you're basically writing off the special thing that model can do: get gamin (2) AP worth of movement in the right direction without a TN. Toss is a good option for Rasputina's crew and unlike Snow Storm and the Arcane Emissary (with Rasputina's upgrade) allows you to project your Ice Gamin into good positions for Ice Mirror. Pairing this with Snow Storm can allow you to yo-yo an Ice Gamin into position for Ice Mirror and return it to safety before retaliation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madaxeman Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 Snowstorm is basically a must-take, Silent Ones and Acolytes are 6-7 points each and must-takes too, and Raspy uses a lot of upgrades. Thats what makes including the Golem tricky. But it's a great looking model that can do some bad stuff, and always forces the enemy to react to it. So, you'll find a place for it and a role for it occasionally - but not always. If it was better, it might be almost a problem for Raspy, as if Golem and Snowstorm became must-haves then list building would become boring.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stur Posted August 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 22 hours ago, dancater said: But if, and I mean if, you plan to play veteran players and tournaments Good thing there literally is no vet player in our community. All starting up, so I guess I will enjoy the time with him while no one knows the game haha ^^. 15 hours ago, Jordon said: It's just unfortunate because the golem looks so awesome. I guess using it as proxy for the emissary as mentioned above would still make sense since the bull doesn't really fit thematically. This I like and no one in general has problem with proxies in our community in the other systems (well except for the WYSIWYG old school WHF/40k players). Cant see why it would be a problem in malifaux Thanks for the help, I guess I will just have to hope it gets buffed/reworked in the future at some point to make it more comparable to all the other goodies she brings 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetaphoricDragn Posted August 13, 2016 Report Share Posted August 13, 2016 On 8/10/2016 at 7:41 PM, Jordon said: Personally, I feel like the emissary has made the ice golem almost completely irrelevant. It almost hits as hard, is more survivable, waaaay faster and is the best ice mirror Raspy has access too. It also comes with a real nifty ability to pull other frozen heart models from engagement so they can be used as mirrors (or to get Raspy herself out of an engagement). Df2 is just abysmal and the +2 armour doesn't properly compensate for this drawback. Just compare it to Izamu who I think is a comparable model in terms of abilities and role. I feel like the golem should be sporting something in the neighbourhood of 12-13 Wds in order for it to compensate for that Df2. Even lowly 4ss models are often hitting it frequently enough make them a serious threat in number. I feel like he needs some help Now that being said, I think the new construct/beast upgrade available can help out with the golems speed if being run in a list with the blessed. I've yet to test it out to see if it's more work than it's worth, or if it's simply better to run the emissary, but it's worth testing. Hm, I've been playing Neverborn too long, never considered the Emissary as a straight up replacement for the Ice Golem. Sad he doesn't fir the theme well though. Makes me really wish I picked up an avatar Rasputina back in the day. Now I'm curious, what does an "average" Raputina crew look like these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angyi Posted August 13, 2016 Report Share Posted August 13, 2016 30 minutes ago, MetaphoricDragn said: Now I'm curious, what does an "average" Raputina crew look like these days? Models of your choice with frozen heart (save the golem), and preferably try to fit the effigy in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordon Posted August 14, 2016 Report Share Posted August 14, 2016 3 hours ago, MetaphoricDragn said: Now I'm curious, what does an "average" Raputina crew look like these days? I think Raspy has the luxury of having some of the best in-theme options. Literally anything with frozen heart baring the golem is a solid inclusion. MVP's would probably go to silent ones and acolytes though. I also think you'll see the emissary more once people get it into their collection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted August 14, 2016 Report Share Posted August 14, 2016 4 hours ago, MetaphoricDragn said: Sad he doesn't fir the theme well though. Makes me really wish I picked up an avatar Rasputina back in the day. My LGS has a few in stock and is willing to ship (even internationally) if you really want one. PM me for the contact info. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetaphoricDragn Posted August 18, 2016 Report Share Posted August 18, 2016 I dug out my arcanist cards and started to look through them again. I admit the melee expert and min 3 damage do make the ice golem appealing (I often paired with a metal Gamin) I don't tend to take 2 expensive models though, so I also wonder Arcane Emissary vs Snow Storm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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