angyi

Only if you field multiple Wind Gamin, their Leap action becomes highly inefficient, especially with Sandeep. So in numbers, they are still perfect to counter killy schemes, with the occasional post-mortem push of course, and this is something I gladly pay 4SS for. But far from absurd.

Also, if you're prepared to buy additional small boxes, it's worth considering Angelica with Practiced Production. Your Large Arachnids can use the push, and PP with the Raptor and the Firestarter is easy VPs.

+1

Based on this roster, and without any knowledge of strategies/schemes, I'd probably go with: Kaeris +3 - Blinding Flame 1 - G&D or P.Flame 1 Eternal Flame 2 The Firestarter 7 - Imbued Energies 1 Mechanical Rider 12 - Well Rehearsed 1 Gunsmith 7 Large Arachnid 6 Large Arachnid 6 Malifaux Raptor 3 ----- 50

In my experience the biggest mistake Sandeep players can make is pushing anything Sandeep offers. Academics in crew building, copying spells, summoning Banasuva etc. Those are all possibilities that you have to be aware of, and use at the right time.

@drakeman : He can. And he's getting Smell Fear from the Pack Leader upgrade, he hits the opponent, chooses to attack its Wp, then Smell Fear tiggers.

@R3n3 The Shikome ignores armor and luckily you can field it in pairs, to make sure that you always get +1 damage via Adversary, not mentioning the extra attack via Long Memory & Pack Leader. While Joss is a solid piece, he isn't able to go out and hunt down whatever needs to be hunted down. He's the ultimate anvil but less useful as your dedicated hammer.

Many good advice here, only 90% of that isn't exactly Ironsides-specific. The Captain is good if you need pushes, Howard is a melee beatstick, Cassandra+PP is a scheming machine etc. But the same applies if you field the said models with any Arcanist master. Basically Ironsides can draw enemies in her 5' diameter tarpit, with the occasional benefits of HPM, then I'm really struggling to see what else she can do. I'm sure she's perfectly legit because many of you say so. I just can't get past the feeling that any given crew I field with Ironsides would run better with Kaeris, Mei, Ramos, Colette and now Sandeep.

@hydranixx I only tried Killswitch with Snow Storm, and only a few times. To be honest, I don't remember who I put Decoys on, I sort of wanted my opponent to know that Snow Storm will deal 4+2 damage in the area if killed. I think it's a good tool on a fast, bulletproof, 3' Ml range model that you can send in the middle of a group of enemy models if need be. Go kill me and 2-3 of your own minions too, or wait until I kill my own Snow Storm with the same effect. Can be a situational thing, but generally I like to pose threats to my opponent that he can't afford to ignore, and this is one of the kind for sure. On Snow Storm, at least. Otherwise I don't value Killswitch too high, either.

I don't think this ranking list has much sense. Eg. Sub Zero is next to useless if your only minion is the mighty Wendigo, but if you have 4-5 minions, it can jam melee lists pretty well. Similarly, I don't think it's always worth to up the already respectable Df6 of an expensive SS user to Df7. To each his own. Another upgrade I'd consider from time to time is Killswitch, because the post-mortem 4+2 wounds is something even Papa Loco would approve.

If you take Blade&Claw, it's good to be able to summon 2in1 beast-construct jumping points. On the other hand, Sandeep doesn't seem to be the right master to experiment with poison centric crews.

If you want to ignore horror duels, it's frozen heart or Kang. If you want to up your chances, it's Arcane Reservoir, Wp6+ and Wp buffs like The Hunger Cry. On the other hand, horror duels and Wp duels are just partially the same. Rasputina and her cult aren't too resilient versus Wp-based attacks in general.

+1 Blade & Claw is a bit like Imbued Energies, most likely you will use it once per game with real effect, only B&C is a bit of the feast-or-famine kind if you're not dead sure which master you'll face. I personally like upgrades with passive effects or additional actions that I'm sure I'll use excessively. I think B&C can be useful if you buy it to speed up your slow models (eg. the rogue necro), or give your lines more resilience (eg. you can send in the bear to tank the hell out of your opponent), but I don't think I'd ever take the Assassination scheme based on a B&G combo. Not versus an experienced opponent, at least. There are too many excellent upgrades in this faction.

@Nikodemus So does mine He was a minion during the playtest, and PMF still lists him as a minion. I haven't checked the card carefully enough. Thanks!

@spooky_squirrel I think the Mech Rider (or the Emissary) and a Raptor (or Gamin) can be traded for two Guards if you want something more hardy, less schemy. I'm still a bit dubious about them, they seem to be a bit too expensive for something that I'm not sure my crew needs at all.

@spooky_squirrel Very good read thanks, we seem to agree on the basics The sans-Oxfordian crew gives me some headache, but my best idea for the time being is hiring 3 Sanctioned Spellcasters and 2-3 cheap Arcanist henchmen to abuse the Collar and provide the VPs needed. Of course Sandeep works well with 90% of the models he's able to hire, but this way the basic mechanism of the crew would remain the same, with the obvious minor differences of course. Other than the Sanctioned Spellcasters, out-of-faction academics don't really excite me. The Valedictorian is good but not really needed, the Iron Zombies are not so good and not really needed, and the Librarian, well, healing is not something I desperately need in a Sandeep crew, not for 7SS. As you said, control is its main strength, and it's always a good idea to play on your strengths, instead of opening new ways of mediocrity. I never tried the Emissary (with or without Sandeep), but you make a good point here, definitely worth a try.

I just won a small local tournament with Sandeep this weekend, playing an almost fixed list: Sandeep Desai (+2SS, Arcane Reservoir, Visions, Unaligned Sage), Cassandra (Practiced Production), Mech Rider (Well Rehearsed), 3×Mages, Wind Gamin, Raptor. I only made minor changes here and there, eg. I burned a stone for another upgrade on Cassandra when I wanted to deny Show of Force. The games went vs Ophelia, Sonnia and Perdita. My experience so far: The trio of Mages will always be my core for Sandeep, with the possible exception of Collect the Bounty. They are efficient, expendable and thematic as well, and with Sandeep they form a cheap core of 4 models, meaning I have a comfortable amount of ~30SS for another 4-5 models to hit a healthy model count. Cassandra with a raptor and the Mech Rider make a VP juggernaut with any master. The only thing I've noticed: with the trio of mages, the crew doesn't need much more hitting power, so I never wished for having Howard, Joss or even the Valedictorian instead of Cassandra or the Rider. Which is good news for Kudra, the Captain and other dubious talents in my reserve pool. Enlightened Soul sounds really good, but Unaligned Sage is really good. Even with 3 mages and no other academics, I think it's the most useful upgrade Sandeep can take (assuming he already has AR and one summoning upgrade), with Seize the Day coming a close second if I suspect my opponent to field an extreme aggro list. Banasuva is not a straightforward beater but an excellent distraction piece. I seldom summon him on turn 1-2, more often on turns 3-4-5 when the game goes more tangled, and 8SS worth of face eating djinn-ness can cause serious logistical problems. Big Jake is waiting for assembly on my desk, and he seems to add another interesting vector to the crew, being a minion. Myranda is another option, especially with the new upgrade Blade & Claw, which also gives Poison Gamin a new perspective.

The Emissary is your ultimate ice mirror, since it's resilient and doesn't care of being engaged. The Emissary and Snow Storm together make a formidable front line. Then again, the Blessed is definitely more mobile, so it's up to you if you want to trade some of the awesomeness for extreme mobility. (Also remember, you can leap out of engagement no problem.) Acolytes are fine, now and forever. Having one never hurts, but two make your list too much of a gunline. With Rasputina, you simply don't need that amount of extra ranged. What you need is more mobility, more melee and more utility IMO.

@Surrealistik Acolytes are ace, but in my opinion they're niche models with Rasputina. This is an old topic here, and I'm with the minority who don't value them over Silent Ones and the Blessed. From The Shadows certainly gives you serious alpha strike potential, but IMO of the feast-or-famine kind. Often times the more conservative deployment pays off better. On the other hand, they make your ranged game even more devastating, and they really don't do anything else. While this can lead you to tabling the opponent, also can lead you to suffering because of a limited range of tactical choices. Please note that I'm not trying to convince you not to use Acolytes. They are very good models, especially if you play Colette or Marcus I just wanted to give you another take on that Kudra list that's somehow different than yours. Can be a playstyle thing or meta-game thing, but I never field more than one Acolyte, and even then, I must have a good reason to do so. With Rasputina, that is.

My take on this would be something like: Rasputina + Seize the Day, Armour of December, Cold Nights (4 SS Cache) Wendigo Snow Storm Blessed of December Silent One Silent One (or Ice Dancer, if the scheme pool calls for her) Kudra Ice Gamin Ofc you can change a Silent One and the Blessed for an Acolyte or two, but I don't think you need much more shooting in this list...

The Captain is not an obviois choice, but it has its upsides, eg. he can push enemy models too. Nice set up for maximum damage from blasts. While Rasputina works perfectly with an all frozen heart crew, you shouldn't be afraid to experiment with others. If you only have 1-2 models w/o frozen heart, that can be easily fixed via December's touch if need be.

Sadly, Angelica can't push leaders out of melee. IMO your best bet is the ever-present Snow Storm, its substitute the Captain, or a pack of Silent Ones to eradicate those fast but not terribly resilient models that engage Rasputina from a serious distance. Other than that, try and avoid the Valedictorian at any price

In my experience Angelica is solid gold in most M&SU crews. In every M&SU crew, actually, that you don't build with a very specific goal.

Another question, just to keep this most interesting topic alive Have you ever considered hiring Hans with Sandeep? He does what he does, but in this crew, you can push him around without serious effort, and he provides you with a tool to shoot the restricting upgrade down from Banasuva or an immobile gamin if need be. (Also allowing a fourth summoning if all three limited upgrades are on the field and you don't want to kill any gamin at the moment... but of course that's kind of a corner case.)

Thanks guys! For a side note, by maxing out Sandeep's combat potential, I basically meant the composition of his crew. Besides the Cassandra/Firestarter/Gamin/whatnot VP-engine and besides the Valedictorian/Joss/Metals/etc. grinder, I can't see right now what's the most agressive setup he can run. (Surely not the Acadsmic spam I guess.)