Ice Golem bad?

Stur · August 10, 2016

I know this is very dependant on schemes and strats and so on.

But generally will I be using the Ice Golem much with a raspy crew after I get over the initial beginner phase and start to become better at the game?

Or is it that cool model that sells the box and will only ever see table time when that 1 scheme or strat is in play and otherwise will collect dust?

Would a Rail golem with mei feng or any of the other masters see a lot more table time regardless of strats and schemes than the Ice golem would with raspy?

Just wondering because the Ice golem is the thing pulling me most over to raspy but I cant really seem to find any real positive remarks about him. Only bad Df, hes slow, toss rarely sees any play outside of tossing ice gamin turn 1, easy to kill, cant really put down the hurt and so on..

solkan · August 10, 2016

Does a Rail Golem with Mei Feng or Kaeris see more table time than an Ice Golem? Yes.

Is your Ice Golem going to be sad and unloved in your model collection so you should abandon it? No.

Krosanreaper · August 10, 2016

My Ice golem has seen little play since I got snowstorm and the blessed of December, but they mostly just fit my play style better. There are times I'd rather have the golem than the blessed. He hits hard gives out slow and his armor help if Raspy hits him in combat to get blasts on the enemy models. Just off the top of my head.

retnab · August 10, 2016

The Ice Golem without help is worse than the other Golem-like models, yes. But if you're doing a Frozen Heart synergy crew it actually becomes pretty fantastic with Snowstorm, Ice Gamin, and December Acolytes helping it in their own ways.

My Henchman Hardcore list features Snowstorm and an Ice Golem for a shockingly fast Golem to the face handing out Slow and good damage. So from my own experience, yes you will continue to use the Golem.

Fog · August 10, 2016

I find he's more playable with ice dancers as they can handle your speed needs and he can anchor.

Jordon · August 11, 2016

Personally, I feel like the emissary has made the ice golem almost completely irrelevant. It almost hits as hard, is more survivable, waaaay faster and is the best ice mirror Raspy has access too. It also comes with a real nifty ability to pull other frozen heart models from engagement so they can be used as mirrors (or to get Raspy herself out of an engagement).

Df2 is just abysmal and the +2 armour doesn't properly compensate for this drawback. Just compare it to Izamu who I think is a comparable model in terms of abilities and role. I feel like the golem should be sporting something in the neighbourhood of 12-13 Wds in order for it to compensate for that Df2. Even lowly 4ss models are often hitting it frequently enough make them a serious threat in number. I feel like he needs some help

Now that being said, I think the new construct/beast upgrade available can help out with the golems speed if being run in a list with the blessed. I've yet to test it out to see if it's more work than it's worth, or if it's simply better to run the emissary, but it's worth testing.

dancater · August 11, 2016

The essential problem for me, as he rarely sees my Raspy lists if ever and never anything not Raspy at all, is that he is a pure and simple damage dealing melee beatstick and in order to really do this properly you must take other models to make him really work.

His damage output is impressive but he's slow and very easy to dink down with ranged and maybe a charge with his paltry Df2. Sure with his armor he often (Ignore Armor is a killer for him) takes only 1 dam but this adds up quick and with his Df you'll be finding it impossible to avoid damage completely even if you cheat 9/10.
Because of his Df2 and low (in relation to his hit magnetism) wounds his Arm2 will not really protect him overly long without any healing or significant other defense (such as good Df triggers), if he survives past 3rd turn he is either being ignored or was lucky. He simply is not durable enough to be tanky.
His throw is an interesting schtick but ultimately very niche (throwing Ht1 models).
His huge damage output attack will (if it does not ambush an opponent) very, very rarely be used. Anything with the wounds to genuinely be at risk will do everything in there power to avoid being in his melee when he has yet to activate, its a 2AP melee, yeah you can zerg a low wound model but its an untoughed heavy hitter you want and they'll only close if they are confident of the alpha kill and with his low Df and Armor they can be pretty certain of this (or not and thus avoid him).
Thus he needs Imbued energies and/or Snowstorm and/or Ice Dancers and/or The Captain at least one preferably two to really make him work. None of these models are cheap and all of them also buff other models equally. Additionally Snowstorm does some of what Ice Golem does anyway.
Rasputina does amazing damage, extra raw damage is the lowest of her crew priorities, she needs speed. The Golem ain't that.
For raw hit power the Blessed of December is faster and hits hard enough to make it count, she'll live longer or at least drain more resources to kill.
Snowstorm adds good damage and is a much better defensive piece and buffs crew movement a real need.
December Acolytes are cheaper, faster, more flexible, pack good ranged and are potentially vicious in melee.
Outside Frozen Heart several Arcanist models are simply either faster and as killy (Cerebus or Howard) or more flexible and still killy (Joss and Cassandra for example) or cheaper and nearly as good (Slate Ridge with new buff, Rattler).

So yeah, subject to any surprising upgrade or review the problem is you need to take other models with the Mega Popsicle to make him really work and not end up looking like an ice sculpture that has been attacked by a confused woodpecker. The problem is that these other models equally buff his superior alternatives anyway.

What he brings (damage) Raspy's crew needs the least and other crews have viable alternatives. What her crew could use; speed or a really good tank damage soak he simply does not do well without significant support.

Sad but true. You can use him, he is not useless or fatally flawed, but there are significant better options at the moment.

Stur · August 11, 2016

Damn sounds more and more like I should reconsider getting the rasputina box since he was the main selling point for me.

Rasputina sounds cool and all but without the ice golem it kinda looses its appeal to me :/

solkan · August 11, 2016

I think half of the reason why the ice golem has melee expert and that (3) action is to be scary looking, not so that someone actually tries to use it. If you write Toss off as a gimmick, you're basically writing off the special thing that model can do: get gamin (2) AP worth of movement in the right direction without a TN. Using Toss to try to cause something probably isn't the most useful thing you can use that action for.

And when you have a new master who summons Ht 1 gamin, I'd think a gamin launcher would be more attractive.

:mellow:

dancater · August 11, 2016

Rasputina is great fun to play and I've taken and won with the Ice Golem on occasion, including using Gamin toss (snowball fight!) and ice smashing an unhurt Pandora once (when it comes off it is devastating).

The Raspy box does play solidly.

But if, and I mean if, you plan to play veteran players and tournaments then the Ice Golem is not ideal, he will not hurt you but he will not turn games unless a experienced player makes an error. I also love the look of the Snowstorm so that helps my decision making parameters.

For fun and casual I will take him without hesitation and have fun. He's also not fabulously hard to paint :+fate

D-solad0r · August 11, 2016

Use ir as arcane emisary. A giant electric bull doesnt fit to me... XD.

I always fear a golem with sub zero.

Durza · August 11, 2016

The Ice Golem can work with Colette, give it Armour of December and Prompt it around.