The Executioner tactics

[icebreaker]

Last time thinking about Executioner, this model has uniq stats, one of the best df for his damage(all beatsticks like Teddy, Kiljoy, Peacekeeper, etc. have low df - 3-4), Love the job is a great ability and Certain Death is insane vs rasputina, nicodim, dreamer and other models with hard df triggers. And after all - "assasinate" trigger, only MI6 stop me to call him the HtH monster.

But, low mobility and no shooting decrease his chances stay alive enough to kill someone.

I'm thinking about how use him(and how use him twice a game as he Rare 2). And cant to invent some good combo. Yes, I can take Abuela to add some mobility, or Francisco to add some defence, or even MacCabe to add and mobility and defence. But... I dont know, it's not enough synergy as for me.

That why I want to ask how do you use Executioner? )

 

[lusciousmccabe]

There's a list of some synergies on his pullmyfinger page but I'm afraid the prevailing wisdom of the forum is basically to not take the Executioner. The problem is that there are a too many of options for a comparable cost which do most of what the Executioner can without being so awkward to use. His ability to ignore defensive triggers and scheme marker removal are potentially game-changing, but they're also potentially pointless depending on what your opponent brings. In terms of his damage he's as expensive as many Henchmen who have comparable damage output and provide support, rather than requiring it. 

Having said that I'd love for you to break that mold though and figure out a reason why you would take 2 Executioners.

 

[4thstringer]

I've been running him a fair amount recently,  as my meta seems to like the during game scheme marker pools.    I've used the wave three movement helpers (mounted guard,  emissary and grimwell).  One of my most recent was a lucius build  to try to get him and a mounted guard into their grill turn one.   If you're interested I'll post that build. 

[Ludvig]

I use them occasionally with McCabe. Look for a pool with a lot of marker schemes and build a list that makes the non-marker ones really hard to do.

Francisco el mayoring them is also a very good investment, Luna can give it defensive. They are scary enough (especially with plusflips and nimble from McCabe) that your enemy will feel forced to try and kill them even if you make it harder for them. If the enemy doesn't include models with defensive triggers you would probably have been better off with a peacekeeper but what can you do.

Prime uses for them would be against pesky gremlins (no more sqeals and ample opportunities for healing) and players who you know like Rasputina, Molly or any of the riders (most of my arcanist enemies). Some pools just scream rider, especially in the old schemes.

[Munindk]

I've been looking at Excecutioners for Guild McMourning.

McMourning can move them at the cost of a little poison and a Nurse could boost their walk, at the cost of not being able to take ML actions. Luckily the Guild has Witchling Stalkers to remove the pesky conditions. Nurse Heartbane can also Electroshock the fat man 6" forward.

The question then becomes is it worth the SS and AP investment to move the Executioner around?

[Ludvig]

Yes! Do it!!! They also heal back up if they kill something so the cost in damage can be negated if you play your cards right. I have actually not played McMourning but he is one of the masters that can get good use out of them just as you have figured out for yourself. They are also a lot more fun when they ignore armour, htw and triggers  

[Munindk]

McMourning -- 7ss
 +On The Clock - 1ss

Executioner - 9ss

Executioner - 9ss

Nurse - 5ss

Nurse Heartsbane - 8ss

Orderly - 5ss

Orderly - 5ss

Witchling Stalker - 5ss

This leaves 3SS for extra cache or upgrades... I think I need to stop by the LFGS

[Ludvig]

I would probably just go with the Chihuahua for poison on the good doctor and an extra acvtivation since you are running fairly elite and people will want to mess with the executioners before they get to where they want to be.

[admiralvorkraft]

1 hour ago, Ludvig said:

I would probably just go with the Chihuahua for poison on the good doctor and an extra acvtivation since you are running fairly elite and people will want to mess with the executioners before they get to where they want to be.

I disagree, I want Evidence Tampering and Plastic surgery on McMourning. The 5" push at the bottom of every turn (after the Nurse loads McM up with poison on turn 1) is fantastic and Scalpel Slingin' is super useful, whereas you don't benefit much from splashing poison around if Sebastian isn't in the crew. 

I usually run McMourning with a crew of 7 and do okay, but I can see how the Executioners want you to bring activation padding.

[Da Git]

What is the point of the two orderlies?  Is it just healing or something I'm not seeing?  I'd probably ditch one for the Chihuahua and the 2 upgrades, then you have 4ss for cache or another model...

Also, you mentioned the Witchling Stalker to remove the Nurse's conditions on the Executioners, that's kind of silly as you can't do it during the Executioner's activation which makes it a bit pointless... it is a great model which I'd usually always take one (and it's a good fallback if the Nurse gets the wrong Trigger too!)

Unknowable Pain could be a really good upgrade too... really give those Executioners a kick in the bum!

[LunarSol]

Generally the Stalker removes the Paralyze from the full heal.

[Da Git]

12 minutes ago, LunarSol said:

Generally the Stalker removes the Paralyze from the full heal.

Do you really need that much healing though? Seriously, I don't play Guild, but I'd be surprised if 2 orderlies, a nurse plus their in-built healing wasn't overkill. 

[LunarSol]

Didn't read the thread, just responded. 

I find the Orderly heal pretty worthless though.  I like them as general scheme runners well enough.  One of our better self sufficient models in that range; just a little bland.

[Munindk]

16 hours ago, Da Git said:

What is the point of the two orderlies?  Is it just healing or something I'm not seeing?  I'd probably ditch one for the Chihuahua and the 2 upgrades, then you have 4ss for cache or another model...

The Orderlies are there to run schemes and add numbers. A watcher and the Brutal Effigy would be cheaper and perhaps better, but I like the Orderlies as they add to the "medical staff and patients" theme to the crew.

[Ludvig]

The orderlies can fend for themselves in a way that the watcher and effigy couldn't.

[ArcticPangolin]

On 6/1/2016 at 6:00 AM, lusciousmccabe said:

Having said that I'd love for you to break that mold though and figure out a reason why you would take 2 Executioners.

I remember ZFiend saying that when he was running Lucius, he took 2 Executioners as a joke but found that they weren't as terrible as you'd expect... if you can get both to hit the enemy in the same turn you can get some surprising results with Bloody Exhibition should the odd  come up.

[Ludvig]

Double executioners with McCabe and promises could turn really nasty really quick.

They're not kittens, they're mostly squishy, slow and can't flurry so they are found wanting when compared to peacekeepers who get a lot for two stones more. If the opponent doesn't allocate resources correctly they are utter beasts since they can heal on kills and stuff. I like taking one when frame for murder is in the pool since that sometimes makes your enemy less inclined to target them. 

If properly focused on they fold like wet tissue since 10 wounds (or 9?) with no defensive abilities means they go down in two activations from mediocre models.

I think it's the problem that was highlighted with our henchmen the other day: several models fill the exact same role so they are easily compared, if they had something that was a little more their own thing they would probably have been rated higher. If your opponent always takes their faction's rider you will learn to love them.

[trikk]

If only the fat dudes worked a bit like Joss - Ignore armour, HtK, HtW etc....

[Gnomezilla]

It was the night to field weird Guild models last night. Sonnia One took an executioner against Hoffman; Sonnia Two took an exorcist against Resser McMourning.

The executioner waded straight across the field to Hoffman and destroyed him heedless of the other constructs, hitting the execute trigger on the same swipe as dealing just enough damage to kill outright. However, it was corner deployment, and despite the Hoffball being at centerline by this point, he arrived during late turn three. And then became a points sink as I handed both distract and cursed object off to him, while he preferred to press the attack against my master on turns four and five. Efficient killing, yes; timely killing, maybe; helpful killing, hahaha no.

The exorcist fared much better. He charged and landed a false accusation on McMourning (ah, wording, it'll catch you every time--it IS false that McMourning IS undead--should've brought a lawyer to fine-tune that accusation) and then hit his execute trigger for card drain. Also McMourning lost almost all his famous pushes with being unable to declare triggers while in melee with the exorcist. Which left him within range for Sonnia Two to do what she does best. I understand that he went from full health to dead, that turn.

I have a little more respect for the exorcist shutting down ALL triggers for 7ss, but he had to be perilously close to melee in order to do so. The executioner's special effects were simply redundant with the killing power of a Sonnia crew. They could've taken down the armor-sink constructs for the same effort and about a turn sooner. (He may also have been chosen against my tendency to spray scheme markers everywhere--Sonnia One herself took care to obliterate my scheme runner constructs ASAP as that usually shuts down my scoring--but I didn't pick marker schemes this time, so that's a mystery.)

[Durza]

Plastic surgery would have saved that Mcmourning, the no trigger aura on the exorcist doesn't say other models, and with some poison Doug could have pushed around. 

I do like the executioners, but their survivability really does need a buff. 

[Ludvig]

I thought McMourning pushed from poison damage, that is an ability and not a trigger. His healing on damage isn't a trigger either.

Maybe I'm missing some push trigger. Also what Durza said, the McMourning player must really regret not taking plastic surgery  

[lusciousmccabe]

2 hours ago, Ludvig said:

Maybe I'm missing some push trigger. Also what Durza said, the McMourning player must really regret not taking plastic surgery  

It's called This ones Ready and is on his melee attack and Transplant (I believe).

EDIT: And Rancid Transplant is what lets him push from taking poison damage, so yes I'd say he really regretted not forking out for it.

 

 

[Gnomezilla]

I wasn't paying as close attention to this fight until the exorcist struck, but I think the situation was McMourning had plastic surgery, but wasn't poisoned at start of activation to use that push, and I'm certain the nurse activated before the exorcist. Knowing the Resser player is still learning, I speculate she only put enough poison on him that catalyst + turn's end had consumed it all by then, and forgot to top him off with the nurse that turn. But then, Sonnia Two had plenty of witchling stalkers, and could have been very offensive and removed McMourning's poison himself once the nurse had activated.

[4thstringer]

So all the double executioner talk got me excited,  and I came up with this list.   For your consideration:

Mc Cabe with promises, strangemetal shirt and badge of speed. 

2 x executioner with llc

2 mounted guard

Luna

2 hounds. 

So the idea behind this list is first turn giving the big boys the badge and shirt,  and then moving up the board so the mounted guard can charge lucas.   When they do,  they can then play the executioners 2 inches in front of them,  which will hopefully give at least one of them a first turn charge opportunity. 

The armor 2 with their heal should make them awful to put down,  and if Lucas can get in there to give promise bonuses they should take some heads.  All the while the dogs are running schemes while your opponent deals with the ton of armoured beef you just hit their lines with.   The mounted guard can join the fun or hunt down scheme runners (if you want this option,  it might be better to give one of them the badge)

Variations include using a trap instead of a hound or one of the llc as the charge target, frank instead of one of the executioners(booooring) and bringing the emissary or judge with unrelenting leader (1 point over. Probably lose llc too) instead of any of the dogs. 

 

 

[Ludvig]

On 4 juni 2016 at 7:55 PM, Gnomezilla said:

I wasn't paying as close attention to this fight until the exorcist struck, but I think the situation was McMourning had plastic surgery, but wasn't poisoned at start of activation to use that push, and I'm certain the nurse activated before the exorcist. Knowing the Resser player is still learning, I speculate she only put enough poison on him that catalyst + turn's end had consumed it all by then, and forgot to top him off with the nurse that turn. But then, Sonnia Two had plenty of witchling stalkers, and could have been very offensive and removed McMourning's poison himself once the nurse had activated.

If McMourning had plastic surgery he would automatically make the exorcist undead and the exorcist would then make itself unable to declare any triggers since it's aura affects itself.