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7 hours ago, Izzinatah said:

I'm new to Dreamer too, and I was happy with summoning Coppelius. Guess I know who to get next...

Also, anyone tried the Bandersnatch with Dreams of Pain yet? Riding a Teddy into battle is amazing - 5" Ml, regenerates the Shadow Lair damage, pulls enemies towards Teddy and can make them attack Teddy and take a Horror Duel...

I very nearly bought the Ripples of Fate book simply so I could have the Bandersnatch and Will o' The Wisps, because doing Shadow Thingy on summoned critters seems amazing.  Teddy, Lelu and Lilitu all seem like fantastic targets.

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I was wondering if the Errata has changed your game plan and/or crew build for Dreamer. For example, do you summon less and attempt a more supporting role? Do you kill of more Daydreams turn one? Do you hire different models now?

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1 hour ago, Treehouse said:

I was wondering if the Errata has changed your game plan and/or crew build for Dreamer. For example, do you summon less and attempt a more supporting role? Do you kill of more Daydreams turn one? Do you hire different models now?

Not really. It makes taking pact more common to get that one summon off no mater what but I often only summon one and use the rest as support actions. If you plan on doing an alp spam then the errata does not even effect you because it only deals with the manifest nightmare action and not daydreaming.

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As someone looking to start the dreamer what would you guys suggest for some starting purchases? I'm not really looking into getting into neverborn as a faction mostly just the dreamer. 

I'm thinking of starting with chompy dreamer for a bit. Maybe trying out alp spam since it looks a bit fun and eventually ending up with full summoner dreamer. I don't plan on that being anytime soon though. This is mostly a side project. 

So I guess beyond what should I prioritize getting there's also how do I determine what I hire vs what I summon? Like do I start with all three daydreams or just bring them in? Or if I'm doing alp spam how many do I hire? Also where do you get alps other than buying a new dreamer box?

One other thing to note is I have Marcus so I already have silurids. I don't have waldergeist but I wouldn't mind picking them up or getting rougarous when they come out.

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Typically starting with 1-2 Daydreams is the best idea.  I like 2 so that I can use one for the summon and another for a push, and so that I don't have to gain Waking and spend an AP turn 1 or 2 on a Daydream unless I want to.

The best things to get for Dreamer are usually Teddy (If you're bringing Mr. Tannen to make him possible), Lilitu (and probably Lelu), Insidious Madness and Stitched Together.  You can ignore Teddy if you don't want to have to get Mr. Tannen as well.  So really, Insidious Madness, Stitched Together, and the Twins, and you've got a good pool.

For more Alps, you're mostly looking at after market, or a singles place like Gadzooks gaming.

 

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For Chompy Dreamer, it's a toss up.  I like to run Chompy with another beater, but I also like to run all my NB crews with 2 beaters.  Teddy is a fine beater to have, and can go with Chompy Dreamer well.  He does do a good job standing near Dreamer and absorbing damage if Dreamer gets through out of LCB.  

However, if you already have another beater (Mature, Nekima, Rider, etc) or you don't like having two big beater models (One of the upsides of LCB is that you *don't* have to spend 11-14 SS on a big beater) you probably don't need a Teddy.  

Also, Stitched are just so good at murder, especially near Dreamer, when they can heal above 1 wound every time they activate near him.  Even as you're trying to flip Dreamer to LCB, it's worthwhile to try to have a couple activations where Dreamer has 2 or less Waking, and is within 6" of the Stitched.  Being able to activate, Gamble Your Life, get hit, go to 1 wound, reactivate, heal on the reactivate, and then have Hard to Kill ready to go again is so good.

 

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With the cuddle to Day Dreams I now start the game with the Primordial Magic. That model + On Wings of Darkness means looking at 10 cards turn 1. Usually with that, there's at least a couple Masks to summon with. I also take Tannen to give me more options with that. Turn 1 + 2 the Primordial Magic moves up, and turns into a scheme marker and dies, then I switch over to summoning Day Dreams to keep help keep Dreamer alive in the later turns with his Defensive trigger. 

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I was actually thinking that Bloodwretches might be a good drop in for 5ss for summoning dreamer, just because you can smack a teddy with them to draw cards who will then heal up at the beginning of his activation anyway. 

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On 2/23/2017 at 4:36 PM, Palooka said:

I was actually thinking that Bloodwretches might be a good drop in for 5ss for summoning dreamer, just because you can smack a teddy with them to draw cards who will then heal up at the beginning of his activation anyway. 

playtime a ronin and have it smack the teddy 3 times with flurry - push off the last one to get her upfield.  Teddy will have taken 6 wounds, but will heal 5 of them...

...and you have drawn 3 cards.

playtime on a bloodwretch can be done too - does 7 damage to teddy ove the rest of dreamer's activation and the bloodwretch one (as it has to turn rage builds on you draw 4 cards and keep 3.

ronin seems a better deal to me - especially as she becomes soulstones later in the game.

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3 hours ago, Joel said:

playtime a ronin and have it smack the teddy 3 times with flurry - push off the last one to get her upfield.  Teddy will have taken 6 wounds, but will heal 5 of them...

...and you have drawn 3 cards.

playtime on a bloodwretch can be done too - does 7 damage to teddy ove the rest of dreamer's activation and the bloodwretch one (as it has to turn rage builds on you draw 4 cards and keep 3.

ronin seems a better deal to me - especially as she becomes soulstones later in the game.

Wouldn't Will O Wisps be a better option because they're half the stones?

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they are cheaper, but do nothing for dreamer beyond this for the rest of the game - and you're not going to sit a teddy back just for this all game.

the ronin can do plenty for the crew after this turn 1/2 play

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12 hours ago, Joel said:

they are cheaper, but do nothing for dreamer beyond this for the rest of the game - and you're not going to sit a teddy back just for this all game.

the ronin can do plenty for the crew after this turn 1/2 play

Wisp can do it to anyone though and they'll heal to full with 0 waking because Wisps have a weak of 1. No need to be smacking teddy.

Also is playtime not when you damage an enemy anyways? Don't have cards on me.

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No, playtime is just when you inflict damage.  Doing this with teddy means you can still summon turn 1 with dreamer though and build waking as Teddy's regent covers the drop in healing 

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44 minutes ago, Joel said:

No, playtime is just when you inflict damage.  Doing this with teddy means you can still summon turn 1 with dreamer though and build waking as Teddy's regent covers the drop in healing 

You can do it with the Wisp and another model as well, just have to activate Dreamer 1 activation later.

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6 hours ago, Joel said:

but dreamer needs to turn playtime on...

No that's silly. Just use playtime before the game begins. It should work since you're already playing a game. >.>

But back to being serious, Dreamer is only going to be summoning two models at most on turn 1, meaning he'll only be a waking +1 after his 0, so you're still left with a model down only 1 Wd if they don't have regen (Lelu and Lilitu come to mind) which is how many Wd teddy was going to be down with your original suggestion of Ronin flurrying on him.

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Fair enough, but after that you still have a ronin in all its Awesomeness as opposed to a defunct wisp

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First question: How do you guys feel on starting with Lelu in your crew? This way you can start your game with his upgrade. The +1 defense makes a huge difference for his toughness.

 

Second question: if I start with Lelu, summon Lilitu and then accomplice on Lelu, does Lilitu still get the extra shared healing from Regeneration and Dreamer? Since Lelu is already at full wounds, he doesn't heal, so it doesn't get shared? If I'm wrong here, this could have quite an impact on the way they are played.

Third question: how good do you feel the Emissary is with Summoning Dreamer? I find his Hazardous Terrain to be an extremely powerful zone control tool, but his upgrade is a purely for the Chompy playstyle. It could be good if you can actually kill the model that is pushed to you, but it could also bring your dreamy little summoner in some serious problems.

 

Bonus question: please give feedback on my core build: 

I'm going to be switching from Ten Thunders to Neverborn and I'm going to be starting with Summoning Dreamer. I already have some experience with summoners (Asami), so I would like to get a good idea on how both the masters and the factions compare in this regard.

 

My core would be

- Dreamer with Dreams of Pain and Otherworldly

- 2 daydreams

- Lelu with his 0ss upgrade

- Coppelius with On Dreaming Wings

 

This would leave me with 22 stones left for extra utility. This does depend on my question above. If a full health Lelu activation does not heal Lilitu, I might take him out.

Justification for the models:

- 2 daydreams due to the errata. Having an extra one for the push/emergency situation is always nice to have

- Lelu: depends for a part on the healing question above. I feel his new upgrade allows him to go further in front and he still keeps his 2 AP without having to stone for a card. This allows for a much better turn 1 setup together with Lilitu, as she will be a lot more further on the board on turn 1

Coppelius: Very powerful scheme/anti-scheme running model that can also summon models himself. Granting Flight to those Alps allows for them to be a serious annoyance as they can pop up wherever they want.

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Due to the wording of their shared condition a damaged lelu or lilitu doesn't heal if their counterpart activates on full health.

I've come to take lelu pretty often as a starting crew member thanks to his 0 upgrade. Your core looks fine, i just don't like Copellius so usually leave him. I like to have a teddy at the beginning of the game.

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1 hour ago, whodares said:

First question: How do you guys feel on starting with Lelu in your crew? This way you can start your game with his upgrade. The +1 defense makes a huge difference for his toughness.

 

Second question: if I start with Lelu, summon Lilitu and then accomplice on Lelu, does Lilitu still get the extra shared healing from Regeneration and Dreamer? Since Lelu is already at full wounds, he doesn't heal, so it doesn't get shared? If I'm wrong here, this could have quite an impact on the way they are played.

Third question: how good do you feel the Emissary is with Summoning Dreamer? I find his Hazardous Terrain to be an extremely powerful zone control tool, but his upgrade is a purely for the Chompy playstyle. It could be good if you can actually kill the model that is pushed to you, but it could also bring your dreamy little summoner in some serious problems.

 

- Lelu: depends for a part on the healing question above. I feel his new upgrade allows him to go further in front and he still keeps his 2 AP without having to stone for a card. This allows for a much better turn 1 setup together with Lilitu, as she will be a lot more further on the board on turn 1

 

Starting with Lelu is a double edged sword. Summoning in Lelitu will make lelu slow. Lelu is obviously better when you start with him now due to the upgrade, but it depends on what you are trying to do as to is the upgraded lelu worth it. You always have the option to use something to damage Lelu yourself if you really want the extra healing on lelitu. 

Dreamer Summoning is very different to Asami summoning in what you need and want. Dreamer  first turn summons can easily stick around the whole game due to the healing from him if they are ignored by the opponent, where as Asami seems to much more summon for the right now with much less forward planning. The Dreamer needs to plan around his waking condition to sort his healing aura as well as how many times he can summon each turn. 

 

I would probably be more likely to use the generic upgrade on the emissary than the dreamer one if I'm summoning. 

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40 minutes ago, Adran said:

Starting with Lelu is a double edged sword. Summoning in Lelitu will make lelu slow. Lelu is obviously better when you start with him now due to the upgrade, but it depends on what you are trying to do as to is the upgraded lelu worth it. You always have the option to use something to damage Lelu yourself if you really want the extra healing on lelitu. 

Dreamer Summoning is very different to Asami summoning in what you need and want. Dreamer  first turn summons can easily stick around the whole game due to the healing from him if they are ignored by the opponent, where as Asami seems to much more summon for the right now with much less forward planning. The Dreamer needs to plan around his waking condition to sort his healing aura as well as how many times he can summon each turn. 

 

I would probably be more likely to use the generic upgrade on the emissary than the dreamer one if I'm summoning. 

Good catch on summoning Lilitu. I would say that on turn 1, you should have 2 low cards you can ditch in case you don't have a card to offset the slow.

Dreamer can also summon in models without slow if he has the right suit in hand or stones AND sacrifices a daydream.

I'd say he has enough options to bring in the other twin without slow.

 

Your comment on Asami is right on the mark. My experience with Asami is that she mainly just summons Yokai.

Either the Yokai can drop a scheme marker (if he lasts into the next turn as he starts insignificant due to summoning) or he's just thrown into the enemy for ml 5+flip on charge attacks.

I'm guessing the first 2 turns you summon quite heavily with the Dreamer and afterwards use him more for positioning/distraction/force replenishing.

 

The generic upgrade has an extra stone for cards action (losing your hazardous terrain action that turn) and +-flip to minions. For which of these effects are you taking it? I feel like Dreamer doesn't really use that many minions and therefore the + flips are wasted on him. Since he uses stones pretty heavily, I'm not sure whether or not the other 0 action is worth it.

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