What's your opinion on cutting your opponent's deck?

[Math Mathonwy]

There has apparently been some talk about this in Malifaux circles lately, but I haven't seen a forum thread about it yet so decided to ask this wider audience.

Now, apparently some people consider cutting someone's deck a sort of "I don't trust you to shuffle your deck properly" statement. Which I do understand, but personally, I've always been taught that cutting an opponent's deck a gesture (a small ritual, in a way) that is essentially saying "good luck!" So it's a positive thing, not a negative.

Anyone else share this idea?

Other opinions? Do you do it? Do you consider it rude? Essential?

[Mister Shine]

I always offer, even in friendly games, and usually get it hand waved by my opponent. The offer is there, which is the important bit.

Wouldn't be offended if my opponent did cut the deck for me, happens in poker games all the time. Its just a cut.

[Jonasty]

Yeah I usually put the offer out there. At tournaments most people take me up on it, friendly games they don't. If I offer they usually respond in kind. Never had anyone cut my deck and then specifically not offer or allow me to cut there's. If so, I'd probably guess I was already in for one of those games.

[MasterDisaster]

Being an old Yu-Gi-Oh tournament goer it was considered standard practice to cut your own deck then your opponents to ensure no foul play. I've never actually come across it in Malifaux though I wouldn't mind if somebody wanted too. Of course if they wanted to shuffle/cut my deck I'd feel obliged to do the same to theirs just so everything is fair.

[hypoking]

I don't generally bother myself. I get the impulse, I grew up playing uecker with a granddad and a brother who were perfectly capable of stacking a deck when the mood hit them. I just don't think the skill set is particularly relevant to this game. I don't mind when someone asks to cut my deck, and I'll probably reciprocate if that's the etiquette of the moment. On a few memorable occasions I've had people I'm playing with provide me with substitute decks but I'm pretty sure that was an entirely different issue.

[mythicFOX]

I wrote a blog post about this a few weeks back;

http://blog.mythicfox.com/2014/01/cutting-our-decks.html

TLDR: Players should always offer and cut each others decks, and the reason why actually has almost nothing to do with trusting the player opposite you.

[Mako]

I always thought offering a cut was a subtle statement that you wanted to show you were playing fairly - that way no one can say you might have stacked your deck.

Plus, if your opponent cuts and you get a run of high cards, they only have themselves to blame *grin*

[Dracomax]

Honestly, In a friendly game, I usually don't bother. Against someone who doesn't know me, or in a tournament setting, I always offer, and always take an offer.

I have found myself with overhand shuffles doing the "low card on the bottom" thing, which is why I always do a bridge shuffle as my last 2-3 card manipulations.

Honestly, with my luck, others cutting the deck can only make my hand/round better.

[rancor709]

we now always cut, my locals started after reading mythicfox's explanation and we all agree.

[WildRacoon]

Perhaps it is my regional culture for cards. I live in Northern Michigan and growing up I have played countless card games. Cutting the deck has never been about trust, it is more just how a card game is played. I can kinda see how people might be offended by cutting a deck. To me, it is more reflected to the deck owner. I give no fuss about people cutting my deck to show I am not cheating. If someone gave me a huff about cutting their deck, then I would get suspicious.

These type of games can get rather emotional for some people. First off they invest their precious money into the game. They spend countless hours assembling and painting their miniatures. Then they think of an awesome list to destroy their opponent. For some people, the temptation to have the edge of their opponent becomes too great. I am sure we all know that guy that throws things when he is losing or that guy that tries to slip in a few extra points where no one will notice. Fortunately I never experienced these things with Malifaux, just Warhammer.

With all that in mind, I just made cutting the deck a habit as a show of good faith and frankly a deterrent for those players hoping to get a slight advantage. But it is more or less just a gesture. If someone really wanted to cheat, only an observant player would notice an extra 13 in the deck.

I guess what I am saying is, I agree with Mako:

I always thought offering a cut was a subtle statement that you wanted to show you were playing fairly - that way no one can say you might have stacked your deck.

[Fenton Crack]

We always offer the cut, but as often as not waive it. 

 

I think maybe they are putting a rule that you "have to" cut/shuffle so there is not social preassure to "waive the cut/shuffle", when a player actually wants to do so, but is afraid they will be implying their opponent is not trustworthy.

[EnternalVoid]

To be honest I dislike cutting decks for two reasons.  The first reason though is the bigger one for me, many times my deck looks the same as my opponent's.  A couple times now I almost got my deck mixed with my opponent's.  Whether it be an outside distraction from the table coming right at that moment and drawing both of our attention, or me finishing cutting and putting it down then them setting mine RIGHT beside theirs and not picking theirs up at the same time.  It does not happen often but enough that it has bothered me.  The issue goes further as I am very careful with my deck, as I have seen people drop some card on the floor and drag it across the tile till they pull it up or treat them so roughly when they are shuffling I am surprise the deck is not bent like a tent.  Kind of bothers me that they almost take my deck after I see how they treat theirs.

 

The second reason is simply that it is an added step that rarely I see the need for.  I get Why you do it, and I always offer, but I just find it kind of bother as a step but one I generally shrug off.

[Claymore65]

I don't usually offer to cut, but I always will accept a request to. It's not that I feel that cuts are wrong, I just literally forget to offer most of the time. I play with a pretty small group a lot of the time, so if they cheat I'll usually know.  It's usually kind of a 'don't bother' situation. I'm not really offended by the request though. I've played Magic the Gathering where cutting was extremely expected by some opponents. Most of my friends never cared there either, but I've had people who freak out about it. Honestly, cutting the deck is not really a problem, and if someone feels better cutting my deck, I'll certainly do it.

[necroon]

I offer every time, expect my opponent to offer, and cut the deck each time it's shuffled. It's a force of habit and, in my mind, common curtosy.

[jondoe297]

I personally dislike it, nothing fo do with accusation of trust etc but more down to the fact i hate people touching my cards. When i play gw etc, I wont let opponents use my dice, and its the same thing here, its kinda a superstitious sort of thing.

 

yep definitely mental, but that is my only beef about it. Due to Mr doxeys blog and resulting convo (well which ever way around it was ) i now riffle 7 times between turns!

[Ausplosions]

Don't forget that the new Gaining Grounds Document for M2E states you MUST offer to cut, and your opponent MUST cut. 

 

So it's a moot point. 

[Squirrelfreak]

Here  we never cut each other's deck. I don't think it's a widely known gesture here. I personally don't care one way or the other and I'm not going to enforce this rule on a tourney.

[Gorbad]

Don't forget that the new Gaining Grounds Document for M2E states you MUST offer to cut, and your opponent MUST cut. 

 

So it's a moot point.

Depends on how strictly you take it. I see GG more as a good basis to start with, there are several things I'd change were I running an event, saying people have to cut is one of them. After the discussion on it I get why, but personally I'm just not bothered. Its just another step in the pre-turn faf. I'm going to try and remember to offer at tournaments and might try and make it something we do locally as well but I'll probably decline cutting my opponents deck.

[Tuttleboy]

If you play card games of any kind, deck cutting shouldn't be a bother. I spent years in the army, played like a million games of spades, hearts, cribbage, and poker, played competitive M:TG for a bit and have poker nights with my pals a couple times a year now and cutting is just part of the game. Almost a ritual in some ways, letting folks know that it's time to play.

[rikowal]

I always ask my opponent to cut my deck, and if they don't, its not any skin of my back.  Its not like I can't draw good cards to save my life anyways.

[David Blank]

I used to play magic, and poker no one was against it then. I don't even think about it. It just feels natural to me. 

[Arli]

I always ask my opponent if they want to cut.  That said, since the Gaining Ground document has dropped, I made it a point this week to let everyone know that the 'Official Ruling' is that it must be done.  Everyone seems to be ok with it too.

 

I have also seen a couple of guys that would just take the top card and do it.  Which can be funny.

[zFiend]

I always let my opponent cut if I remember to do the gesture

[Sarsnick]

After playing M:TG in actual tournaments, I cannot help but to shuffle my own deck for 2 minutes (the max alloted time in a match).   I do offer a cut mostly.

 

I have killed the flicking of cards in hand though.