Soloed Guild Lucius in a tournament today.

[Maniacal_cackle]

I soloed Guild Lucius in a casual tournament today, and am a bit in love with the crew.

I did basically a fixed list to keep from brain overloading:

• Lone marshal
• Agent 46
• Pale Rider
• Guild lawyer 
• Changeling
• 2 LLC
• 6 stones

Agent and Lone Marshal formed a devastatingly powerful gunline. The rest of the crew just funneled AP into Agent and Lone Marshal, so they were often each taking two focused Long Carbine attacks on turn 1.

I once overextended my models past my initial core. In the future I'll play a more cautious game and keep focused on shooting. (Won two games, then lost one for going into melee too soon and targeting the wrong models).

The crew seems super powerful. The 4 stone Changeling often translates to an AP on an elite model, and the Lawyer translates to 1-2 AP on elite models and another 1-3 from Lucius means the crew is going strong from turn 1.

After that, if the support models die, I'm left with four very strong models and the scribe which has insane utility, very fond of that model.

The card draw of the crew really helps the TNs, and so after spending all that AP I often had a hand full of severes which just cleaned house.

Overall the build was very strong and I felt like it could do anything, but the pale rider is a flex slot and I can see putting another model or two in its place. Changeling + lawyer definitely feels like the right balance.

I'll be branching out and experimenting with other builds, but I imagine the main model I'll be swapping out is pale rider for some pools. The rest of the core of marshal/agent/changeling/lawyer is too good to pass up.

Just thought I'd share my thoughts!

[belorey]

Lone Marshal is insane with Lucius. Didn't you play with Doppleganger? You can mimic Lone to get 2 extra shoots with stat 7.

I would play something like:

Size: 50 - Pool: 5
Leader:
  Lucius Mattheson
Totem(s):
  The Scribe
Hires:
  Agent 46
  Doppleganger
  The Lone Marshal
    Lead-Lined Coat
  Guild Lawyer
  Guild Lawyer 2
  Changeling

[LightningJuice]

I’ve yet to try using Agent to copy guns rather than Inhuman Physiology. Seems like a much more competitive way to play as Agent is super squish if you throw him in. 
 

I look forward to hear more of your dabbling in Lucius! 

[4thstringer]

The problem I always have in gunline lucius is feeling like I never get up board enough to do any schemes.   Were you able to use the horseys enough to get past that?

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

9 hours ago, belorey said:

Lone Marshal is insane with Lucius. Didn't you play with Doppleganger? You can mimic Lone to get 2 extra shoots with stat 7.

I would play something like:

Size: 50 - Pool: 5
Leader:
  Lucius Mattheson
Totem(s):
  The Scribe
Hires:
  Agent 46
  Doppleganger
  The Lone Marshal
    Lead-Lined Coat
  Guild Lawyer
  Guild Lawyer 2
  Changeling

Yeah, that was the first build I tried, or something like that!

I quite liked it, but worried it was a bit vulnerable. Once the Doppleganger gets separated from the Lone Marshal, it isn't that scary by itself. Still need to test it out a few more times.

Another advantage of the Pale Rider is that it can do scheme-running more effectively.

9 hours ago, LightningJuice said:

I’ve yet to try using Agent to copy guns rather than Inhuman Physiology. Seems like a much more competitive way to play as Agent is super squish if you throw him in. 
 

I look forward to hear more of your dabbling in Lucius! 

Yeah, the guns did so much work while my opponent trudged across the board.

Then swapping Agent to melee-monster mode with inhuman physiology cleaned up what was left. Btu as an example, I got a Mysterious Emissary down to like 2-4 health before agent used analyse weakness to jump to it and start punching.

But even then, I found Agent was surviving a really long time - although I often had Lead-Lined Coat, soulstones, AND defensive cards to cheat. So really soaks up the resources once you commit to melee.

I also think gun-copying is the unique thing that Guild has. Neverborn Lucius would kill for these guns xD

7 hours ago, 4thstringer said:

The problem I always have in gunline lucius is feeling like I never get up board enough to do any schemes.   Were you able to use the horseys enough to get past that?

 

Yeah, probably the biggest mental block was getting over the idea that I needed to score turn 2 (although leylines it was easy to score every turn. Break the Line I ended up scoring every turn as I managed to knock a marker into position every time with lots of obey shenanigans. Turf war my brain was goo and I just ignored the strategy and had fun and lost).

The need to score the strategy was a massive reason for me taking the Pale Rider. Like on Leylines I just didn't want to have to commit the Lone Marshal to it, on Break the Line I wanted more mobile AP, etc. Although Break the Line I think you're fine to just do it with a pile of models. Like Guardians would probably be fine for it, and protect a marker really well?

Another aspect to consider is that 11/13 schemes can be scored for at least one point without crossing the centreline. So like on my leyline game, I didn't have to cross the centreline until turn 5. That made a huge difference!

[HomelessOne]

You heard it here and it's not just me putting words in M_c's mouth, Guild Lucius > NVB Lucius

[Maniacal_cackle]

Just now, HomelessOne said:

You heard it here and it's not just me putting words in M_c's mouth, Guild Lucius > NVB Lucius

Sadly so far it appears so

That said, I'm not sure I buy the "Zoraida does everything Lucius does but better", so am keen to try out some Neverborn Lucius at some point xD

[admiralvorkraft]

I'm so excited any time someone has a good run with Lucius and so depressed that his best play truly is just, "mimic highly efficient actions, obey, profit." I want my janky, teleporting, suicide king back damnit! Ah well, maybe his title will be cool.

That being said, good job rocking out with one of the more brain-sludge-inducing Masters in the game. I'm glad you had fun with him

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

28 minutes ago, admiralvorkraft said:

I'm so excited any time someone has a good run with Lucius and so depressed that his best play truly is just, "mimic highly efficient actions, obey, profit." I want my janky, teleporting, suicide king back damnit! Ah well, maybe his title will be cool.

That being said, good job rocking out with one of the more brain-sludge-inducing Masters in the game. I'm glad you had fun with him

 

Well, the crew still really relies on Agent 46 going 'inhuman physiology' and turning into a melee blender. And also Lucius just swapping to sniper mode (although I may put Expert Marksman on him to ignore friendly fire, as usually he wants to start sniping when Agent is in melee...)

And honestly I think Agent 46 can be quite tanky. Between LLC, stones, and cheating cards defensively.. Oh, and shielded (so had to do 3 damage to him to even hurt him), I found he lived quite a long time!

So there's still a lot of interesting tools for the crew. At some point I need to start obeying enemy models with weak willpower xD

[Maniacal_cackle]

Thinking about Doppleganger more...

It seems really helpful if you can abuse its Don't Mind Me. It is a bit squishy with manipulative down if it is engaged, but there might be some finesse play to get around it.

It's 0" engagement range is a problem, but you can mimic your way to a 2" engagement range (but sadly that drops manipulative

But on something like Break the Line where a brawl can mean you're needing to be able to bypass engagement, could see it for sure! Maybe something like:

• Agent 46/Guardian/Melissa
• Guardian
• Doppleganger
• Lawyer
• Changeling

Augmented minions seem so good with the crew, but their inability to give themselves power tokens is a real obstacle, so it may be worth having Melissa or someone to generate it. I suppose you could just wait til you spool up on an enemy, you only need the one token!

Could also just try a list with two guardians and agent/melissa, being a bit stone light but having enough tankiness naturally that you're fine.

And the Guardian's can Take the Hit on the doppleganger, so you don't really need lead-lined coat on it.

Not having an OOK enforcer like Lone Marshal can potentially be really valuable for less card pressure on your lawyer... Although having Melissa stacked with focus and run and gun charges does seem really appealing xD

Some stuff to tinker with for sure.

EDIT: Also lawyer shielded + models with armor 2 is just wild xD

[admiralvorkraft]

Two guardians, 46, Doppelganger was a pretty good gg1 list. Lure and lots of pushes to maximize Greatsword... Pretty solid. Even better with the new push rules.

Remember that 46 can copy Lure to delay the Doppelganger's activation, and you draw cards when you spend your own pass tokens.

[Maniacal_cackle]

6 minutes ago, admiralvorkraft said:

Two guardians, 46, Doppelganger was a pretty good gg1 list. Lure and lots of pushes to maximize Greatsword... Pretty solid. Even better with the new push rules.

Remember that 46 can copy Lure to delay the Doppelganger's activation, and you draw cards when you spend your own pass tokens.

Somehow I forgot about the lure entirely. Very useful!

[Higgybeans]

@Maniacal_cackle Just curious, who were the LLC on? Agent and Lone Marshal as your main gunline? Or Agent and Pale Rider? To get the rider to survive long enough to get the 5 ram trigger on revel?

This list looks super interesting. I really need to play more Lucius  hopefully the title is cool too!

[Maniacal_cackle]

20 minutes ago, Higgybeans said:

@Maniacal_cackle Just curious, who were the LLC on? Agent and Lone Marshal as your main gunline? Or Agent and Pale Rider? To get the rider to survive long enough to get the 5 ram trigger on revel?

This list looks super interesting. I really need to play more Lucius  hopefully the title is cool too!

Mixed it up over the three games. Always agent/pale/lone with one missing out.

It didn't feel strictly necessary on any, but probably agent was the most noticeable since he was most likely to be in melee, followed by Pale Rider.

[Maniacal_cackle]

Also lead lined coat on a model that also gets shielded from lawyer is pretty absurd

[extremor]

On 9/11/2021 at 11:27 PM, Maniacal_cackle said:

 

I also think gun-copying is the unique thing that Guild has. Neverborn Lucius would kill for these guns xD

Well yes and no. To me the thing i envy most about guild Lucius is Dr.Grimwell. The guns are awesome - no argue bout that - but angel eyes gets NVB Lucius close to that feeling... but then again Dr Grimwells Utility and synergy with staggered and the amount of damage and/or discard is so sweet and unique. next to the idea of lucius observing or guiding the mad doctors work. -my 2ct.

[Maniacal_cackle]

9 minutes ago, extremor said:

Well yes and no. To me the thing i envy most about guild Lucius is Dr.Grimwell. The guns are awesome - no argue bout that - but angel eyes gets NVB Lucius close to that feeling... but then again Dr Grimwells Utility and synergy with staggered and the amount of damage and/or discard is so sweet and unique. next to the idea of lucius observing or guiding the mad doctors work. -my 2ct.

Hmmm... I've never been impressed by Grimwell when facing him, but maybe the lists weren't quite right.

What sort of list would use Grimwell for Lucius?

[belorey]

On 9/12/2021 at 12:09 AM, HomelessOne said:

Guild Lucius > NVB Lucius

NVB can always hire Mysterious Emissary for an insane amount of Roots From Below attacks.

[Maniacal_cackle]

42 minutes ago, belorey said:

NVB can always hire Mysterious Emissary for an insane amount of Roots From Below attacks.

That or double inhuman reflexes on mature neph.

Couls get like 7+ charges a turn xD

[belorey]

27 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

That or double inhuman reflexes on mature neph.

Couls get like 7+ charges a turn xD

Or go woth Thoon and use Frozen Trophy.

[Maniacal_cackle]

9 minutes ago, belorey said:

Or go woth Thoon and use Frozen Trophy.

The obeys don't work for that, but the mimics do, brilliant xD

[belorey]

13 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

The obeys don't work for that, but the mimics do, brilliant xD

Yeah you can use It with Doople, Agent. And if you miss te attack on your activation you can always obey if you get better hand.

[Rufess]

Lucius in Guild also has access to Pale Rider, whose trigger can draw a bunch of cards combined with Following Order. It is not broken but solid enough to consider in real game.

[Maniacal_cackle]

5 minutes ago, Rufess said:

Lucius in Guild also has access to Pale Rider, whose trigger can draw a bunch of cards combined with Following Order. It is not broken but solid enough to consider in real game.

I pulled that off in one of my games! Drew three cards I think.

[Azahul]

35 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I pulled that off in one of my games! Drew three cards I think.

My record is six