GG2 / The road to the exit?

[SEV]

32 minutes ago, 74legion said:

The problem is that the others are already at floor level.And now we are offered amputation instead of "medicine".

Titania is the master with the highest win% in the vassal WS.

Euripides is play with a lot of success by some (mysterious) people...

Zoraida is a powerhouse and with the Bokor left untouched and the drip in power level to other top masters I think she'll be even better! 

Nekima and Dora can be competitive...

So except if you're solely a Lucius/Marcus player (and even than, the new gg is good for them) we should be fine!

Deep breath... and go slaughter some stuff (especially guild stuff), it will help 😁

[zeno]

With an errata as with as large changes such as these to Dreamer (I'm aware that other changed as well) makes me wonder if the Beta was more like an Alpha...

 

[Vaylos]

56 minutes ago, SEV said:

Titania is the master with the highest win% in the vassal WS.

Euripides is play with a lot of success by some (mysterious) people...

Zoraida is a powerhouse and with the Bokor left untouched and the drip in power level to other top masters I think she'll be even better! 

Nekima and Dora can be competitive...

So except if you're solely a Lucius/Marcus player (and even than, the new gg is good for them) we should be fine!

Deep breath... and go slaughter some stuff (especially guild stuff), it will help 😁

As someone who champions the underdogs (I play both Euri and Lucius) I think Lucius is actually much stronger now. I don't think he was terrible before except in the super killy strats, and even then there was room to take him depending on the scheme pool.

[Vaylos]

2 hours ago, Ceodoc said:

Unless ofc you have death beds in the pool.

Maybe that's it, NB on its death bed, because the Fae Queen won't be played into a death bed pool either.

You can work around both points from Death Bed. If its in pool you Sheer Cold the pillar next to the Scheme Marker(s) and remove it (them) with the Primordial Magic. QED.

[santaclaws01]

3 hours ago, Ceodoc said:

Unless ofc you have death beds in the pool.

Maybe that's it, NB on its death bed, because the Fae Queen won't be played into a death bed pool either.

Yeah, because nobody ever took Euri or Titania into Research Mission...

[Sumanye]

14 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

Yeah, makes me half-regret selling my Dreamer crew, sounds super fun to play now!

I disagree.  Completely ignoring any power level discussion, Dreamer seems less and less fun each time he gets touched.  I am sure Dreamer needed further adjustment, but I feel like the way it's been done there is just less and less to be excited about.  This is the master that got me into Malifaux in 2E and he seemed so cool then.  Now he's a summoner who can summon 3 things.  Maybe he is balanced now, I don't know, I'll leave that to better players.  But what I'll say is this, this master would not get me to play M3E if I was a new player today like he did for me in 2E.

[extremor]

2 hours ago, SEV said:

Titania is the master with the highest win% in the vassal WS.

Euripides is play with a lot of success by some (mysterious) people...

Zoraida is a powerhouse and with the Bokor left untouched and the drip in power level to other top masters I think she'll be even better! 

Nekima and Dora can be competitive...

So except if you're solely a Lucius/Marcus player (and even than, the new gg is good for them) we should be fine!

Deep breath... and go slaughter some stuff (especially guild stuff), it will help 😁

I play Lucius and Hinamatsu main. Ohhh and Marcus... 😂

but even though I think gg2 will be a lot of fun!!!

[vlad vladov]

For those who look from the outside and do not see the nuances of Lucid dreams.

Throwing out the cards you can get from the deck 10/10/13 - to return them you NEED to start a duel with the ENEMY and it is StT.

And there are situations when you have thrown out 4-5-6 Good cards. There are no duels with StT. We play without 5-6 8+ cards. Unpleasant.

Only in the 4th round there is a tangible benefit from this. (....and to play without Teddy and WW is very inconvenient 😒 - and the logic of the game LD forces them not to take).

This ability was both a plus and a minus. The ratio changed in the process.

[vlad vladov]

Now for Vivid nightmares (and Lucid Dreams).

Forces you to return the cards. Let's count 3 Daydream 3 St 2 Alp plus LCB.

We throw out 9 cards from them there will be 3 good(10+) 3 normal(6+) 3 bad(1-5). Then We Will Return 5. 4 Out of the game (and most likely 3 will be 10+ for Gamble).

Great news 1 bad cards out of play 3 conditionally good ones too. These cards will not come to your hand will not work for the attack and defense of the ENTIRE gang(for example, 1, 7, 10, 13).

The entire 2nd round is played without them.(this also affects us). And it turns out, as a result of long calculations, that we have 3-4 cards out of the game at the beginning of the round. Because we have to keep there 2-3 10+ that per round we use. Well, or 5-6( if 5- ), which I do not believe, since for 9 Lucid Dreams you can not pull out 6+ three at a time is unreal luck.

As a result, this ability to remove 5t cards from the game. Well, great - a good way to get people to buy Society. Or leave the hobby for a while or completely. The time is difficult now, everyone has little money. I hope Wird has everything figured out.

[Maniacal_cackle]

I think you're stretching the math quite a bit there. When you lucid dream, you have a 75% chance to hit a weak initially. Even when you've removed 10 weaks, you have almost a 50% chance to hit a weak each time. So if I had to guess it'd be like 1 severe, 3 moderate, and 6 weak.

That said, I've always been of the opinion that even without Lucid Dreams the crew is pretty powerful, and it still gets to use lucid dreams to an extent now. And you have access to stitched via Widow Weaver combos, or via hiring them, or by hiring them and rebuilding them when they die with WW.

So I definitely think it merits testing.

[Adran]

16 minutes ago, vlad vladov said:

Now for Vivid nightmares (and Lucid Dreams).

Forces you to return the cards. Let's count 3 Daydream 3 St 2 Alp plus LCB.

We throw out 9 cards from them there will be 3 good(10+) 3 normal(6+) 3 bad(1-5). Then We Will Return 5. 4 Out of the game (and most likely 3 will be 10+ for Gamble).

Great news 1 bad cards out of play 3 conditionally good ones too. These cards will not come to your hand will not work for the attack and defense of the ENTIRE gang(for example, 1, 7, 10, 13).

The entire 2nd round is played without them.(this also affects us). And it turns out, as a result of long calculations, that we have 3-4 cards out of the game at the beginning of the round. Because we have to keep there 2-3 10+ that per round we use. Well, or 5-6( if 5- ), which I do not believe, since for 9 Lucid Dreams you can not pull out 6+ three at a time is unreal luck.

As a result, this ability to remove 5t cards from the game. Well, great - a good way to get people to buy Society. Or leave the hobby for a while or completely. The time is difficult now, everyone has little money. I hope Wird has everything figured out.

I don't understand your maths.

Why, in 9 cards, are you getting rid of 3 good ones, 3 average and 3 bad? On average you are looking at nearer 7 bad, 1 average and 1 good, unless you have chosen to put good cards out for Gamble, in which case why have you then put good cards back into your discard pile? 

what you want to do is keep poor cards out for good, keep a few good cards for the stitched, and cycle around the average cards, which should still be improving your deck. 

 

[74legion]

Was there a test? Played in Vassal 20-30 skilled players that's the statistics? ... 

[74legion]

Serena Bowman is popular - Making it worse.

Why many people choose it is not important to us - we just make it worse.

The Dreamer is played a lot - So he is very strong - we make it worse, EVEN worse,I SAID MORE !!!

Maybe it's time to see WHY others play less, but laziness is invincible.

[74legion]

You can count in different ways. Somewhere more models will be killed somewhere, the cards will be different - this is an accident.

In my opinion, the hiring list will simply change. There will be more "heavy models". and the mechanics will be forgotten.

And about that WW for hiring Stitched. This is a dead end. Give the Dreamer 15 HP ... 3/5/6 dmg ... remove the call. There will be Nekima v 2.0. also an option.

[Vaylos]

2 hours ago, Adran said:

I don't understand your maths.

Why, in 9 cards, are you getting rid of 3 good ones, 3 average and 3 bad? On average you are looking at nearer 7 bad, 1 average and 1 good, unless you have chosen to put good cards out for Gamble, in which case why have you then put good cards back into your discard pile? 

what you want to do is keep poor cards out for good, keep a few good cards for the stitched, and cycle around the average cards, which should still be improving your deck. 

 

The only thing that I can assume here is that they believe that the deck is composed of 5 weaks, 5 moderates, and 5 severes, which isn't the case.

There's a 38% chance that any card you flip (from a card that has not had any draws) will be Weak, same for Moderate.

There's only a 23% chance to flip a severe from an undrawn deck.

That means that any card you flip has a (roughly since I'm not including Jokers) 76% chance to flip Weak or Moderate.

Unless my brain is completely sleep addled (and I literally just finished the last sips of coffee as I was typing this), I don't see how the math could work out any other way unless my initial supposition is accurate.

 

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Well, for those who want to try out a new way of doing Dreamer, here is what I recommended in the other thread:

Take a list with four elites such as this one:

• The Dreamer
• Lord Chompy Bits
• Widow Weaver
• Serena Bowman
• Bandersnatch
• Teddy
• Daydream - Ancient Pact
• Daydream 2 - Ancient Pact
• 7 stones

This is one list I used in GG0 and it wrecked.

[Passenty]

Surprised that some people have any faith in nekima after the changes-even saying she is better now. She was quite bad before, her only viable play was packing huge amount of focus for hitting her moderate of 5 but now with max focus 2 what is she doing titania dosent?

Dreamer while beeing worse will still be the top fraction master just widow weaver will be seen more for stitch summoning. 

Zoraida looks promising with everything else getting so many cuts.

Serena is bad now i dont see hiring her for 8ss. Cant understand why she got hit as hard- they shouldve fix either her durability, damage or healing why she lost all of those?

[Maniacal_cackle]

6 minutes ago, Passenty said:

Surprised that some people have any faith in nekima after the changes-even saying she is better now. She was quite bad before, her only viable play was packing huge amount of focus for hitting her moderate of 5 but now with max focus 2 what is she doing titania dosent?

Another very significant nerf is that the summoned terror tots are a lot worse at scoring now, so that's an issue.

6 minutes ago, Passenty said:

Serena is bad now i dont see hiring her for 8ss. Cant understand why she got hit as hard- they shouldve fix either her durability, damage or healing why she lost all of those?

Can someone explain why she is so bad? A ~10 health model with disguised and the potential to do two heals on top of her other shenanigans. She has two triggers to reposition enemy models, so can mess with positioning most of the time if you save a high card for her.

I think maybe she isn't as 'auto-pick' in every crew, but she still seems great in Dreamer's crew (and getting her melee attack boosted to stat 6 in that crew is sweet).

[Ogid]

NVB got a few hits this GG, but after looking at others like ARC; I think NVB didn't got the sort sitck this time.

Dreamer was quite good, it's nice to see most top dogs taking some hits; I don't agree with all choices (Colette's one for example seems way overkill) but at least things are moving forward. The lack of EXP nerf did raise an eybrow for me tho.

About dreamer. The stitcheds summoning ban hurts but it's a bit countered with the other nerf; now that dreamer discard cards; the stitcheds are less needed to patch bad LD and puppets always went well with Nightmare so that's still a path to bring them. Also Elite Dreamer (few minions) was a thing and that seems to be the main strategy now. I don't like the 15SS cost specially after removing Stitcheds as summons, that probably kills him as a double master in most scenarios. Something to note is the Focused changes are actually quite good for Dreamer as he is decent at inflicting Distracted.

Serena was hit hard; but when condition removal and healing is needed, she is still probably a decent pick (as long as there is no easy way to deny demises for the other crew). We'll see.

The biggest change this GG is the focused one by far; that is going to change a lot the strats and roles of some models. Hinamatsu for example, that was already quite good, got a very big buff having an AOE Focused removal and being able to stone distracted with her Lure. And about Focused, NVB with the BBS still has a very good Focused engine, specially now that other big contenders like Tanukis or Toshiro got that option removed or weakened. Only Cojo got hurt by that, maybe Nekima as she could pile a good ammount of it between pulses and pustules.

I'm honestly a bit surprised a change as big as the focused one happened without an edition change and with no adjustements... definitelly picking a faction and not cherripicking masters is the way to go... it's much easier to adjust to things like this.

Again, We'll see.

[extremor]

6 hours ago, Ogid said:

I'm honestly a bit surprised a change as big as the focused one happened without an edition change and with no adjustements... definitelly picking a faction and not cherripicking masters is the way to go... it's much easier to adjust to things like this.

I guess that wyrd did look upon „the other side“ where the „condition cancel  each other out“ thing is common and considered well. So they got their experience with that. I must say I really like this change and am looking forward to seeing the results. Luckily they did not wait for M4e

[Nagi21]

10 hours ago, Ogid said:

NVB got a few hits this GG, but after looking at others like ARC; I think NVB didn't got the sort sitck this time.

Serena was hit hard; but when condition removal and healing is needed, she is still probably a decent pick (as long as there is no easy way to deny demises for the other crew). We'll see.

Aside from Collette herself, I fail to see how this Errata fixed the fact that ARC have a solution to everything, have 3 massively OP upgrades, and one of the best summoners in the game.

Serena is done.  1/2/3 healing per turn on a Df5/6 hp (even with eternal) does not an 8 stone model make.  Candy is a better option at 9 stones by a long barrel.  I expect most people to start taking the wild child now and that Candy gets nerfed into oblivion next errata since that's now our only healing option.

[Maniacal_cackle]

4 minutes ago, Nagi21 said:

Aside from Collette herself, I fail to see how this Errata fixed the fact that ARC have a solution to everything, have 3 massively OP upgrades, and one of the best summoners in the game.

I don't know if it was pointed out in this thread, but Arcanists aren't doing exceptionally well in the World Series so far (I think Neverborn might be higher, with Titania being a big factor.

6 minutes ago, Nagi21 said:

Serena is done.  1/2/3 healing per turn on a Df5/6 hp (even with eternal) does not an 8 stone model make.  Candy is a better option at 9 stones by a long barrel.  I expect most people to start taking the wild child now and that Candy gets nerfed into oblivion next errata since that's now our only healing option.

You still get two 1/2/3 heals for a single action, now it is just spread out more. I'd be surprised if Serena sees 0 play.

[Nagi21]

1 minute ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I don't know if it was pointed out in this thread, but Arcanists aren't doing exceptionally well in the World Series so far (I think Neverborn might be higher, with Titania being a big factor.

You still get two 1/2/3 heals for a single action, now it is just spread out more. I'd be surprised if Serena sees 0 play.

I mean... they must have poor ARC players cause SE USA meta is all ARC killing everyone.  

 

You get 2 heals with a non-built in trigger for a single action on two different models.  Candy offers more options and the same healing unless you don't have a mask for one stone more.  I expect some early attempts to make Serena work followed by a lot of Candy play.

[Ogid]

1 hour ago, Nagi21 said:

Aside from Collette herself, I fail to see how this Errata fixed the fact that ARC have a solution to everything, have 3 massively OP upgrades, and one of the best summoners in the game.

They are still good, but some of their top notch combos have been tonned down. Colette set up a kill teleporting a model across the entire map the first turn distance was more than halved, the mechanical rider reactivating herself or other powerhouses is also over... Also between the Focus changes and the Kandara's mantra change, Sandeep also got hit hard.

1 hour ago, Nagi21 said:

You get 2 heals with a non-built in trigger for a single action on two different models.  Candy offers more options and the same healing unless you don't have a mask for one stone more.  I expect some early attempts to make Serena work followed by a lot of Candy play.

Serena is way weaker now and it's going to be a problem when condition removal is needed but the other player can deny Demises (things like Manos or Cooper for example)... but I've never liked a faction relying so hard on a model so maybe now we'll see other models coming or other adjustments where needed (in anohter year, that's the bad part tho...)

But for healing I have never liked Candy tbh (maybe only to heal models carrying her like the Rider or a Mature) and she can only help with conditions removing Stunned. Her healing range is quite low, it's a normal action and she is useless charging... getting her in position isn't efficient; also I had to choose between positioning and holding Candy activation for the aura or activating her early (when the healing is needed) and missposition her to heal (which leaves her very open to retaliation and guts her control and potential tankiness).

Not sold with that... If you have a list in mind that needs Serena but she isn't an option for who you are facing, just pick something more tanky or with their own healers; Fae, Puppets, Swampfiend... there are things that are not going to work anymore after an errata.

[74legion]

Just a reflection.

The faction does not have a model of mining Soulstone (well, we are stupid for 100500 years did not think to do this). Whether it's People.

This is right on the History of the world and does not break it in any way.