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More to Hoffman Than Meets the Eye?


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Fun fact. Nobody who took Runic Binding won a game in the 5 Vassal tournaments  

I've been lurking in the forum for quite some time and for guild's sake I felt it was the right time to jump in !! 😜   Mask

As Third Floor Wars one put it on a podcast, the question isn't "is the master better in faction X or Y," but rather, "does this master answer questions A, B, or C in my faction?" Hoffman is a good ge

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As Third Floor Wars one put it on a podcast, the question isn't "is the master better in faction X or Y," but rather, "does this master answer questions A, B, or C in my faction?" Hoffman is a good generalist that requires the opponent to tech hard or deal with tough attrition.

Guild Hoffman has some particular anti-counters (eg., No Prisoners' riot gear is a help against, say, hazardous terrain pings from Titania or Mah Tucket) and can beef up defenses on Joss or Howard with an extra LLC. Phiona Gage allows the crew to play in a whole different fashion, even if she's an expensive piece at 10 SS ook, using a single AP to bring opponents into range of a melee blender or pulling Hoffman up the board 6" at a time, often healing her while you go. If you really want to move a Peacekeeper, you can try the No Prisoners upgrade on a Hunter and get some clever work out of shifting the PK with a power token for a surprising position before using "Catch Them!" to toss it up the field.

If you're just going to main Hoffman at whatever over and over again, sure, go ahead and play Arcanists (I've honestly considered doing that in a local tourney with the right pools, but never had the guts) for the sweet upgrades and scheme-rider, but Hoffman can absolutely play in Guild if you want to play this faction.

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4 hours ago, Yore Huckleberry said:

As Third Floor Wars one put it on a podcast, the question isn't "is the master better in faction X or Y," but rather, "does this master answer questions A, B, or C in my faction?" Hoffman is a good generalist that requires the opponent to tech hard or deal with tough attrition.

Guild Hoffman has some particular anti-counters (eg., No Prisoners' riot gear is a help against, say, hazardous terrain pings from Titania or Mah Tucket) and can beef up defenses on Joss or Howard with an extra LLC. Phiona Gage allows the crew to play in a whole different fashion, even if she's an expensive piece at 10 SS ook, using a single AP to bring opponents into range of a melee blender or pulling Hoffman up the board 6" at a time, often healing her while you go. If you really want to move a Peacekeeper, you can try the No Prisoners upgrade on a Hunter and get some clever work out of shifting the PK with a power token for a surprising position before using "Catch Them!" to toss it up the field.

If you're just going to main Hoffman at whatever over and over again, sure, go ahead and play Arcanists (I've honestly considered doing that in a local tourney with the right pools, but never had the guts) for the sweet upgrades and scheme-rider, but Hoffman can absolutely play in Guild if you want to play this faction.

third floor wars makes not competitive podcasts

with hoff crew in arcanists u can kill much more models per turn; i have played with best guild player - guild hoff vs arcanists hoff-and we both agreed that arcanists hoff is much more better and we finished on turn 3 as i remember, because i have killed phiona and howard both with llc and it was not abt luck-just opp dont have so many cards/stones to survive this

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Thanks Yore Huckleberry, nice summation for Guild.  I'm not a super competitive type, rather run with a faction for thematic reasons and model aesthetics so it was more curiosity than wanting to choose which faction for optimising or powergaming.   

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The guild has Phiona, Llc and lawyers. Arcanists have all 3 usable excellent upgrades, and more then 10 possible good ook picks. Ss miners, swarms, emissary, duet, rider... Even Miranda can be considered. Fast Scorpius is no joke. And guild models actually are better in blue. Peacekeeper with cache is nuts. Therefore blue Hoff is a lot more versatile in playstyle. That's it. 

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5 hours ago, Legislat said:

The guild has Phiona, Llc and lawyers. Arcanists have all 3 usable excellent upgrades, and more then 10 possible good ook picks. Ss miners, swarms, emissary, duet, rider... Even Miranda can be considered. Fast Scorpius is no joke. And guild models actually are better in blue. Peacekeeper with cache is nuts. Therefore blue Hoff is a lot more versatile in playstyle. That's it. 

Sure; I agree that Arcanists can run a more powerful Hoffman than Guild and that they're a stronger faction in general. I also agree that Peacekeeper with SS Cache is nuts.

But if someone is playing Guild the question is still, "How do I run Guild Hoffman" and not "Should I switch factions to run this master more effectively?"

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54 minutes ago, Yore Huckleberry said:

But if someone is playing Guild the question is still, "How do I run Guild Hoffman" and not "Should I switch factions to run this master more effectively?"

Then you already know the answer. Phiona, lawyer, LLC. 😄

 

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7 hours ago, Yore Huckleberry said:

Sure; I agree that Arcanists can run a more powerful Hoffman than Guild and that they're a stronger faction in general. I also agree that Peacekeeper with SS Cache is nuts.

But if someone is playing Guild the question is still, "How do I run Guild Hoffman" and not "Should I switch factions to run this master more effectively?"

Also worth noting that a crew can be stronger in one faction, but more playable in another.

If a crew gives answers Guild doesn't have, and ones where Arcanists have better answers, then the crew could still be better for Guild.

Which may be the case - if you're playing Arcanists, aren't you just declaring Colette? 😜

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For me Guild Hoff is the best option for public enemies in particular, but when I am back in guild its usually him, Sonnia and Lucius as my 'main crews'.  He does have more options in Arcanists for sure, but struggles against Collette and Sandeep a lot of the time for play time 🤣

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On 2/28/2021 at 12:09 AM, Plaag said:

third floor wars makes not competitive podcasts

with hoff crew in arcanists u can kill much more models per turn; i have played with best guild player - guild hoff vs arcanists hoff-and we both agreed that arcanists hoff is much more better and we finished on turn 3 as i remember, because i have killed phiona and howard both with llc and it was not abt luck-just opp dont have so many cards/stones to survive this

This might be a shocker for you but I don't think most people that play Malifaux are hyper competitive.  I think most people play because they enjoy the hobby and playing with friends or acquaintances

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As far as Hoffman is concerned, I actually quite like the way he plays in 3rd edition.  I played him more in 2nd edition, so still testing him out.  I like the resource management style he plays as it feels thematic powering up his constructs and having the crew work together.  

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Sometimes I do like to surprise people with a faster Hoffman build, things like double Watcher and double Hunter. It's not as 'strong' in terms of the bubble (though I usually still bubble with one beater like PK or Joss), but certain scheme pools really benefit from out moving the opponent.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Also Hoff in guild if backed up with some of the Arcanist models can get quite a bit more healing.  So for me the key is to understand how much hitting power, movement tricks, and aura healing you need in the crew for the strat and scheme pool.  Hence why my starting crew I edit towards the pool is....

Hoff and Attendant (5ss)

Joss

Mobile Toolkit

Howard Langston

Medical Automaton

Union Steamfitter

Hunter

Watcher

 

Haven't tried Phiona, but I guess I would swap Josh out for her in certain match ups.  Peace Keeper, Guardian, and Riot Breaker come in as needed.

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1 hour ago, HowNot2Wargame said:

Peace Keeper, Guardian, and Riot Breaker come in as needed.

I think I'd almost always bring a Guardian. So that Hoffman doesn't have to do anything so plebian as spending AP to walk places. 

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I like Guardian on m2e but in m3e is overcostered. A 9ss model who can toss a model 10" but them he is far away for the action.

He is a beater/tank but we have better options for 1ss (Josh or Howard).

My core list is:

Pool: 27 left
Leader:
  Charles Hoffman
Totem(s):
  Mechanical Attendant
Hires:
  Howard Langston
    Lead-Lined Coat
  Melissa K.O.R.E.
  Mobile Toolkit

Now depends of schemes, strats and rival i would choose the rest.

If the game must be played on the middle of the board (Claim Jump, Leave Your Mark with Public Enemies or Recover Evidence).

It's time for Peacekeeper if you're going to play agressive and you are not going to face Leveticus or MacMourning (they would cut PK as butter). On those games you need extra protection, so Phiona + LLC is your choice (or if you face enemies with HtW).

Josh with LLC is the tech beater against terrifiying because he is ruthless. And he can easy kill models with armour or hechman/master thanks of his irreducible damage. If he is full Powet Tokens enemies would be scared of kill him whilst is on the middle of his crew.

Then you have the support models to make work the machines.

Medical Automaton brings you an insane amount of healing and makes models within 3" almost unkilliable.

Mobile Toolkit giving extra shield, focus or power tokens and healing for just 3ss.

Mechanical Attendant gives you extra movement and more healing. (And he is for free, very good totem).

Then you have mobile models for schemes.

Watcher can move 23" (or 16 + interact) on a turn if you need It for a breaktheough or and Spread Them Out.

Hunter has an insane movement betwen Deadly Pursuit, Mv6 and Pounce on Chest or Transfer Power. So he can move around 20" in a turn (depends of the combination of abilities you use). And he is also a good scheme runner hunter. 

Riotbraker is another tech pick against markers and destructible terrain. Melissa KORE and PK love him because of his Blow It to Hell so they can shoot enemies with no cover.

Thats all i usually play in Guild Hoffman. Other models like steamfitters or warden don't bring enought to be hired on my list. Maybe i need to play them more.

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14 minutes ago, belorey said:

9ss model who can toss a model 10" but them he is far away for the action.

I think it's not a big problem for Hoff. With fast the Guardian can Toss, push itself, then double walk or walk charge and be right next to whatever it threw.

17 minutes ago, belorey said:

warden don't bring enought to be hired on my list.

I think Wardens are pretty great for thier cost. They, Metal Gamin and Clockwork Traps are the only non-totem models to have Armor +2 at 5ss or less. Giving out Ranged slow, sometimes at stat 6,  is no joke. With power tokens for puncture they can hit pretty hard for thier cost, or you can just move their power tokens to a bigger beater.

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27 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

I think it's not a big problem for Hoff. With fast the Guardian can Toss, push itself, then double walk or walk charge and be right next to whatever it threw.

Sure but Hoffman models look slow but they are not and for similar cost you can get, Melissa, Howard, Josh, Peacekeeper or even Phiona ook.

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14 minutes ago, trikk said:

Steamfitter has a few great bonuses if you pair him with Howard.

Sure but how many times Howard and an Steamfitter will be within 3"? Maybe T1 and the beggining of T2. And Hoffman crew had cheaper healers. 

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2 hours ago, belorey said:

Sure but Hoffman models look slow but they are not and for similar cost you can get, Melissa, Howard, Josh, Peacekeeper or even Phiona ook

Maybe playing with Tri-Chi has made me overvalue models with 2" engagement and easy pushes. Lol

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As i said, i like Guardian, but who are you going to leave instead of him? 

Howard? Melissa? Josh? Peacekeeper?

Guardian la a good model but you have better options for similar cost. So becomes overcosted.

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